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Pretty good post on PvP by Harland


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#1 Montyx

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 12:52 PM

http://us.battle.net...pic/20742996043

Not that it's going to change Blizzard's vision of catering to casual and new players, but pretty well said imo.
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#2 Maleficent

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 02:31 PM

He's right. There's no more outplaying people in pvp anymore. Those abilities and mechanics are gone or revamped to be made retard proof.
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#3 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 03:03 PM

Those abilities and mechanics are gone or revamped to be made retard proof.

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Part of the reason they want to make things so retard proof - need classes and specs to not be confusing for new people trying them out for the first time before they pay for the character boost :) :) :)

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 11 April 2016 - 03:05 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#4 Montyx

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 03:29 PM

Part of the reason they want to make things so retard proof - need classes and specs to not be confusing for new people trying them out for the first time before they pay for the character boost :) :) :)

That's actually fucking aids.

I don't understand how there are people who actually get confused by this game. It isn't rocket science. If people are seriously that ignorant and easily confused by abilities then they shouldn't have been playing to begin with.

I don't blame Ghostcrawler for leaving, he probably saw this coming from a long way.

These "new players" are probably going to play for a month and get bored because they're too fucking retarded to open up their keybinding interface. What a joke.


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#5 RippedLife

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 03:53 PM

That's actually fucking aids.

I don't understand how there are people who actually get confused by this game. It isn't rocket science. If people are seriously that ignorant and easily confused by abilities then they shouldn't have been playing to begin with.

I don't blame Ghostcrawler for leaving, he probably saw this coming from a long way.

These "new players" are probably going to play for a month and get bored because they're too fucking retarded to open up their keybinding interface. What a joke.


they will leave bc unlike us older players who had to learn our class, who began to like our mains and kinda have a connection to them we leveled them from 70 to 80 to 85 etc, they just log in and - INSTANTLY - get a level 100 with itemlevel 800 who can join a fucking raid.

even in fucking league/csgo/dota/whateverfcukinggame you need to LEVEL your account to get to the real game but for a fucking MMO this is too hard apparently. shit blows my mind

Edited by RippedLife, 11 April 2016 - 03:54 PM.

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#6 Relentless

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 03:54 PM

I also don't understand blizzard insistence on making it retard proof for new players to get this game. League of Legends makes almost no attempt to and look how successful that is.

Part of the challenge of league is how it throws you in the deep end (if you have never played a moba before) and it takes ages to even begin to understand what the fuck is going on in lane or team fights. Its frustrating at first, but it makes you want to get better at the game and gives you things to aim for at least.

Edited by Relentless, 11 April 2016 - 03:56 PM.

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#7 Montyx

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 04:18 PM

I also don't understand blizzard insistence on making it retard proof for new players to get this game. League of Legends makes almost no attempt to and look how successful that is.

Part of the challenge of league is how it throws you in the deep end (if you have never played a moba before) and it takes ages to even begin to understand what the fuck is going on in lane or team fights. Its frustrating at first, but it makes you want to get better at the game and gives you things to aim for at least.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4801581&page=1

I'm not super interested in compromising LoL design in the name of accessibility. Yes, League is obnoxiously hard to learn if you don't have a friend showing you the ropes. That sucks, but it's not worth stripping away the depth or potential for mastery for our core audience -- you guys -- in order to attract new players. That's not an approach every game can or should take, but it's the right call for League.

-Ghostcrawler

Couldn't have said it better myself.



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#8 Maleficent

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 04:50 PM

That's actually fucking aids.

I don't understand how there are people who actually get confused by this game. It isn't rocket science. If people are seriously that ignorant and easily confused by abilities then they shouldn't have been playing to begin with.

I don't blame Ghostcrawler for leaving, he probably saw this coming from a long way.

These "new players" are probably going to play for a month and get bored because they're too fucking retarded to open up their keybinding interface. What a joke.

When my brother was learning the game I would literally tell him, "read the tooltip." While that seems condescending and mean, reading your abilities and spells works fucking wonders for learning how to play the game. As far as ability interactions and shit like that, that comes just from playing the game.

GC also says it's not the best approach for every game but I don't think it's right for WoW either. They could dial back accessibility and add back in my exclusivity and it would be more than fine. To be honest, the argument they design the game for new players may be a failed argument too; it doesn't seem like anyone even plays the game and the retention rate for new players is pretty shit. I don't have numbers to back up my claim but I'd imagine it's still true.
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#9 JohnnyC

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 07:50 PM

they will leave bc unlike us older players who had to learn our class, who began to like our mains and kinda have a connection to them we leveled them from 70 to 80 to 85 etc, they just log in and - INSTANTLY - get a level 100 with itemlevel 800 who can join a fucking raid.

even in fucking league/csgo/dota/whateverfcukinggame you need to LEVEL your account to get to the real game but for a fucking MMO this is too hard apparently. shit blows my mind


couldn't agree more.
Part that kept me playing in tbc when i started was getting farmed by fucking gorillas in STV on my warrior, i knew i was bad and could improve so i never left the game.Until cata where a superior player couldnt kill a healer even with interrupts on every cast

Edited by JohnnyC, 11 April 2016 - 07:51 PM.

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#10 Fizion

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Posted 11 April 2016 - 09:41 PM

Fuck new people. How about taking care of all the people that still play and those that used to play but want to come back to something a lot more challenging?

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#11 Dreoras

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 01:42 AM

Retards will always cry and when they are the majority they will get what they want, always has been since Activision came into the picture. WoW used to be highborn but is now just a lowly whore that everyone gets a go at.

What is dead may never die.
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#12 Seu

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 02:35 AM

Great news guys! I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is actually the lead game designer at Activison Blizzard in the World of Warcraft department. He said they all just read this post in the WoW official forums by Harland the level 14 Undead Rogue and they simply cannot believe they didn't think of this stuff sooner. He says they were totally unaware of these opinions and issues and now that they have read this excellent post on the official forums that they are going to immediately jump to action and save World of Warcraft arena and make it great just like your favorite expansion was.

Congrats Harland, you did it. WoW is saved.
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#13 Maleficent

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 02:56 AM

Great news guys! I just got off the phone with a friend of mine who is actually the lead game designer at Activison Blizzard in the World of Warcraft department. He said they all just read this post in the WoW official forums by Harland the level 14 Undead Rogue and they simply cannot believe they didn't think of this stuff sooner. He says they were totally unaware of these opinions and issues and now that they have read this excellent post on the official forums that they are going to immediately jump to action and save World of Warcraft arena and make it great just like your favorite expansion was.

Congrats Harland, you did it. WoW is saved.

haha nice post dude lol!! xD god ur hilarious lmao ;P

Edited by Maleficent, 12 April 2016 - 02:57 AM.

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#14 Relentless

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 07:08 AM

Great news everyone, I've fixed the poison slime pipes!
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#15 Nogahn

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 09:49 AM

The point is that blizzard actually believes that making the game easier will bring new players to the game which should instantly be able to play with their "veteran" friends and feel like they actually accomplish something.

I guess most blizzard game-designers haven't played much "real" games so far.

The reason why I get hooked up on a game ist that I actually feel like I'm working towars something and keep improving.
Challengemodes, Raiding, Rating. (what ever motivates you)

The casuals usually cry on the forums 24/7 about how hard the game is/was.
Those are the informations blizzard collects most of the time.

"boss is too hard" "my class is so bad" "can't get glad because I'm a scrub and this is bullshit"

The better players usually don't even visit the official forums anymore.
We the far above average up to elite level players don't even bother posting anything relevant on the forums we just keep it to ourselves and maybe have an occasional breakdown an circlerrage on the game.

Blizzard did the mistake to actually design the game for the casuals to make them happy again. (for the shortterm)
What Blizzard forgot is why those casuals keep asking for it.

They crave for attention and want to be as succesful as "method" or be the next arena-god.
Those casuals crave for this because the want the attention and feel special about themsellf.

What blizzard keeps forgetting is that there's nothing to aim for if you get everything handed on a silver platter and if the casuals don't have anything to aim for then they will get bored sooner or later.

Blizzard should have realised by now that if people are willing to cry on the official forums = they cry because they really want that title / acm / boss kill. They don't want it due to the achievement itself they want it due to the reputation/prestige reaching this goal brings with it.

I remember a time in TBC in which I was in the best pve-guild on my server and I was 1 out of the 3 hunters with a full-T6 and a legendary bow. People (other hunters) looked up to me and asked me for advices because they knew what having T6 actually ment back then.

Maybe this game was nerdy and ate all your time back then but this kinda created hierachy on every single server.

Do you remeber when you were a little pleb and spectated those gladiators doing duels in front of Orgrmmar and occasionally tried to beat them in a duel and got your ass kicked because they outplayed the shit out of you? and how good it felt once they you became one of them?

Edited by Nogahn, 12 April 2016 - 10:07 AM.

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<(^.^<) <(^.^)> (>^.^)>

#16 Lolflay

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 11:08 AM

I don't understand how there are people who actually get confused by this game. It isn't rocket science. If people are seriously that ignorant and easily confused by abilities then they shouldn't have been playing to begin with.


I'm by no means an average WoW player - 10x+ glad titles behind me and a history of raiding in a few top 50 guilds. Yet I was completely lost for the first week or two in WoW in regards to basic combat abilities ( kept using my staff to kill mobs instead of casting spells on mobs ), and I was lost for much longer on the basic concepts of what you have to do in an MMO ( for example, I thought having "of the Eagle" gear as a Warlock was the best in Vanilla ). Oh, and I also grinded to level 60 without doing quests at all in Vanilla, maybe the occasional dungeon when someone whispered me or I saw someone advertise in /1. Granted, I did come from a FPS background with not having played a single RPG game up until WoW, but still.. This game used to be fairly complex back in the day. Hell, get a new player a portal to some place and chances are he'll be lost as fuck for a while until he discovers he has a Hearthstone or something.


So no, getting into WoW wasn't/isn't easy. Don't knock it down, it was a fairly complex game both to start playing, and to start playing properly on the end game. However, simplifying the early game isn't so much of an issue tbh... The problem is that they started trivializing the endgame ( duh, as we all know ). Actually, even an awful expansion like MoP had it's skillpeaks that were kind of hard to reach - playing an Affliction Warlock properly with all the snapshotting and other shit was super hard ( notice I said "PROPERLY" - this isn't to say that a scrub couldn't make a lock and simply soulswap dots around and pollute good results )

If you simplify the endgame, you take the appeal of MMO's away - aka, you stop hooking people on the game. This first started in Wrath when you could get geared up for ICC/earlier raids by simply spamming those ICC heroics, suddenly the average guy had nearly the same gear as someone who raided beforehand. Fuck, I was in a world top 20 guild during Ulduar, and I had nearly BiS gear ( full t8.5, all the trinkets etc etc ) - I stopped raiding after that tier, and I wanted to raid again in ICC - suddenly I see a guy who has better gear than me from crafting+new ICC heroics+normal ToC10 - what the fuck?


What they need to do is make people play tiers again. Like, I'm talking TBC style. There's no going into SSC unless you've completed Karazhan/Gruul. There's no going into Sunwell unless you've finished Black Temple. And they need to make people work for gear again. <- this is especially easy right now considering PvP gear is gone in next expansion, meaning that Blizz won't have to worry about people grabbing PvP gear from vendors and being able to enter raids immediately. Also, "normal" version of a tier 2 raid SHOULDN'T drop better loot than "heroic" version of tier 1 raid.

Also, they really fucked up with the dungeons. I remember back in TBC - EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER had to grind heroics because from heroics came the BiS trinkets ( Icon of the Silver Crescent <3 ) that were BiS for the major part of the expansion, and came other pieces of gear that were, if not BiS, then nearly BiS, even for BT/Sunwell raiders. Current dungeons - herp derp, some blues and apexis shards lulz. What are Apexis shards used for again? I don't know, and I played WoD seriously during Highmaul/BRF/WoD S1 and I'm playing it casually now in S3.

But alas, they'll never make the game harder again, simply because that's not their goal with the game anymore. Timesinks aren't popular with the current generations - they're the generation that are used to buying a game from Android market and then dump 100 dollars on it just to have it completed. This is the business model Blizz is aiming at, and they can suck my fat cock and my hairy balls for it.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#17 Pinka

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 09:50 AM

I agree on the major parts of what is being said. Been doing shitloads of pvp since vanilla. Been at glad rating or scratched it every exp. Multiple hotas. (Fu if you hate atleast i play it without disgusting cheats.) I also pve on mythic lvls and fucking rp so come at me. Just to remember im a damn NE warr.

Then came wod. Fml what is up with this exp that makes me play like fckn shit in arenas.
I pull shit dps in pve as arms. While i did great in any other expansion. (Glad i main prot in pve.)
Mainly i have the feeling is cause this game became so cooldown use heavy. Fuck cooldowns. I want it to be things you pop as a last resort. To prevent you from dieing or when you really want to increase you pressure. Not buttons you press when your enemy healer is cced or when you enemy pops a cooldown. Im not saying it doesnt require skill. Ofcourse it does. But it also makes pvp boring and scripted as fck.

I want jukes to matter. Mobility, interrupts, risk reward cc. Remember the time rogues could kite warriors in their charge deadzone. A rogue could outplay recklessness by just "walking" properly. Now he needs evasion up otherwise gg. When arena games slowly shifted into a teams favor by how clever they could pressure, position or could reduce enemy pressure. And that the enemy team could shift it back without needing X cd with Y ccchain to instaflop the enemy that just has been ouplaying them 90% of the time. Oh too bad you should have saved your cooldown to counter mine. Lolol been playing like shit but u got outplayed now cause i swiftyed + rng critted.

Im also one of those that rather wants arena targeting macros removed. Clicking properly can also be a part of "skill". I want to click that enemy and stormbolt him when i feel he comes around that pillar. Not mash my arena target 3 so he get stormbolted the 0.1 sec he peeks around the corner. A rough example would feel like playing an fps with aimbot. "But what about pve?" Mobs dont move and behave like players do. So that is out of the question.

Salty rant from someone who loves to play all parts of this game. Sadly arena went from the top to the near bottom in. Single xp.

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#18 JohnnyC

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 01:30 PM

Just posted on eu legion forum about the buffs to casters

http://eu.battle.net...081168?page=1#2
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#19

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 07:33 AM

Blizz can suck my fat cock and my hairy balls for it.

I dieded
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Shit game is shit :) btw Butthex, ur still a nobody, thx for reminding me to fix my shit sign

#20 sarma

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Posted 16 April 2016 - 12:21 PM

.Until cata where a superior player couldnt kill a healer even with interrupts on every cast


False.

Mage,Dk,Warrior and rogue , possibly others too could kill any healer 1v1 easily in cata. On warrior you needed some pve gear since class was nerfed into ground s10 and s11 had bad scaling.

Even in early mop s12 and s13 it was possible then Ghostcrawler left and <Imbecile> holinka took his place (late s14) instead of nerfing healing and gear scaling
crowd chooses you was replaced with Dampening , mechanic that soaked any fun left in this game for sake of balance.

Grivious gladiator healingstream was born and game went from infinite fun to I want to kill myself playing 2v2 vs healers

Tldr you were Just terrible at game son, cata was fine
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