Jump to content

Photo

Can someone explain why Sub is better than Mut?


  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 potatoshapedham

potatoshapedham
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 4
  • Talents: Subtlety 0/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1145
  • 3v3: 1402
  • 5v5: 1369
  • RBG: 1539

Posted 14 January 2016 - 11:41 PM

I started playing rogue around November and I pretty much confined myself to Assassination only, especially at endgame. I had tried Combat and I didn't like it at all, and I found Assassination fit my playstyle well.

When I started running 3s, I wasn't having fun with RMD/RMP and found my only enjoyable comp to be Thugcleave. After playing it a lot I came across information that Sub is the proper rogue spec for Thug as it has more burst that can accompany your BM hunter better.

I've been trying to learn Sub for about over a week now and I'm not seeing this burst in action. Shadowdance really sucks in my opinion because my Ambushes hit for around the same as my Mutilates did, and my Eviscerates hit for less than my Envenoms. Plus there's less consistent damage as I feel energy starved, find difficulty in getting Backstabs consistenly positioned, have to waste combo points on SnD, and don't have those sweet poison/Rupture procs I had in Mut spec. The burst in Mut seemed to be strong too with M4D/DFA and the Vanish set bonus.

I'm aware Mut is like the equivalent of Arcane in that people don't see it as viable, but I can't understand why. It seems to have everything Sub has and more.
  • 0

#2 Shiqra

Shiqra
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Kult der Verdammten
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 51
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/0/1/0/.

Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:05 AM

If you are more comfortable and have more fun with Assassination, play it.
You dont waste your Combopoints in SnD, you invest in more Energyregen. But yeah its hard to kill something outside of CDs / Stealth.
The Reason why Sub is better: more burst, more control, 1min CD Burstcooldown, lines perfectly with MfD.
I guess you are playing Sub wrong / you Dance wrong i dont know.

Sorry for my shit English.

Edited by Shiqra, 15 January 2016 - 12:05 AM.

  • 1

#3 potatoshapedham

potatoshapedham
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 4
  • Talents: Subtlety 0/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1145
  • 3v3: 1402
  • 5v5: 1369
  • RBG: 1539

Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:32 AM

Your English is impeccable.

What exactly do you mean by "more burst"? My understanding of Sub burst was Dance, Ambush, Ambush, Evisc and a M4D/DFA at the end. My problem is I'm not seeing big numbers with those Ambushes. In Assassination I can Mutilate, Mutilate, Envenom and M4D/Vendetta/DFA and do more damage...

I usually tell people to play what they like and I can appreciate you saying that, but I do want to be as helpful to my partners as possible.

It wouldn't surprise me if I were doing something wrong, could use some pointers if what I said above is incorrect.
  • 0

#4 Shiqra

Shiqra
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Kult der Verdammten
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 51
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/0/1/0/.

Posted 15 January 2016 - 02:02 AM

Do you Rupture / Garrote the Target first?
You can open like this (non Mage)
Premed into SnD
CS, Rupture, MfD, DfA,
Dance, CS, Ambush, Evis; 2x and Garrote (be aware that your Target is not Stunned for .5-1 sec between 2. and 3. Stun you can also just Garrote after the 2. Stun if your Target is a Caster/Healer/some Melees)

or mid game with full SnD up:
Dance, CS premed into Rupture/Evis and spam Ambush Evis (keep your Target stunned, silenced)

Always burst with Rupture/Garrote up. With Venom Rush you can burst more fluidly.

PS: You cannot play that Static mostly because you need to Stun off someone else or you get CC'd
If you wanna learn how the play Sub good you can watch good Rogues like Mir, Pikaboo or Pshero

Edited by Shiqra, 15 January 2016 - 02:06 AM.

  • 0

#5 potatoshapedham

potatoshapedham
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 4
  • Talents: Subtlety 0/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1145
  • 3v3: 1402
  • 5v5: 1369
  • RBG: 1539

Posted 15 January 2016 - 04:35 PM

Okay I'm starting to see the burst happening and it's pretty glorious. I don't know why I thought Ambushes hit the same as Mutilates, they're doing like 40k each.

I'm still very awkward juggling SnD and Rupture as I haven't had to do that... ever... but I have one more question for you. What do you do in your downtime? M4D/DFA into Shadowdance burst is great, but exactly what do I do for the minute in between those bursts? Is it just a Backstab/Evisc spam while I keep up SnD/Rupture or is there something more in depth?
  • 0

#6 drzy

drzy
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 367
  • Talents: Arms 0/1/2/0/0/.

Posted 15 January 2016 - 06:22 PM

I'm pretty sure Combat is still the most powerful rogue spec, everybody on NA just likes gimping themselves because they want to believe pressing Shadow Dance instead of killing spree is more "fun".

You're playing Warlords of Draenor, nothing is fun about it lol.
  • 0

#7 potatoshapedham

potatoshapedham
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Sargeras
  • Shadowburn
  • Posts: 4
  • Talents: Subtlety 0/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1145
  • 3v3: 1402
  • 5v5: 1369
  • RBG: 1539

Posted 15 January 2016 - 10:58 PM

I'm pretty sure Combat is still the most powerful rogue spec, everybody on NA just likes gimping themselves because they want to believe pressing Shadow Dance instead of killing spree is more "fun".

You're playing Warlords of Draenor, nothing is fun about it lol.


I was under the impression that Sub/Combat were essentially equals. When I was playing Combat I felt it was terribly boring though. Outside of Adrenaline Rush there was nothing to do ability-wise, and it just played ridiculously slow. Killing Spree is a cool ability but I don't see it doing all that much damage in the videos I watch, maybe as much as one Mut's Vendetta/DFA.
  • 0

#8 Sykoh

Sykoh
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 305
  • Talents: Subtlety 0/1/2/0/1/0/0
  • 2v2: 1648
  • 3v3: 1989
  • RBG: 1717

Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:57 PM

you don't see "big" numbers as combat. you just do consistent retarded damage that builds up. red buff killing spree can still insta gib someone.
  • 0

#9 Hiiwa

Hiiwa
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 107
  • Talents: Shadow 1/2/0/2/2/1
  • RBG: 1751

Posted 16 January 2016 - 03:36 AM

Rogues get CC'ed and kited anyway outside of their burst(if you set it up correctly) so theres no point having good constant damage in 3s. For rogue comps you want to try to 100-0 someone in cc chains or force cds so Sub is the best spec for that. 1 min burst and mini bursts if you stealth.
  • 0

#10

  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Talents:

Posted 16 January 2016 - 09:22 AM

Sub reqires more skilz and timing than
  • 0

#11 Nexxer

Nexxer
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Auchindoun
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 513
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/2/1/2/2/.
  • 2v2: 2149
  • 3v3: 2879

Posted 16 January 2016 - 10:31 AM

Sub reqires more skilz and timing than


yeah sub requires the skilzzzz
  • 0

#12 Shiqra

Shiqra
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Kult der Verdammten
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 51
  • Talents: Assassination 2/2/0/1/0/.

Posted 16 January 2016 - 01:57 PM

Outside of Burst:
Try to peel if in need, go for restealths if you can or just build up SnD and Rupture for your upcoming Burst.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<