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Rogue PvP Inept.


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#1 Desamas

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 06:17 PM

Hi all,

First time posting, I apologize if this is the wrong place.

I have played rogue for a long time, and have always enjoyed PvP. That being said, I suck. Most of my friends stick to PvE and have no interest in PvP. I would love to get better, perhaps even "good".

I've tried to improve on my own via videos and guides that are readily available, but without a feedback system I feel I am reinforcing deeply ingrained bad habits.

Therefore I have a few questions, unsure if they are easily answered.

1.) Are there common mistakes that low level rogues tend to make that I can easily identify myself?

2.) I play combat but I am not quite sure of my target priority in arenas. (I have just been spamming skrims to get used to arena so my comp varies). I usually prioritize healers > cloth > mail > plate.

3.) Is combat the "easiest" to learn / most versatile for playing on my own? From my reading it seemed this way, but a reassuring nod or correction would be nice.

4.) Are there any places in the forums / alternative sites where low level players can team up with better players or like-minded individuals to get better?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, I apologize for the haphazard format.

Cheers, Desamas
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#2 Freshqtz

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Posted 04 January 2016 - 11:21 PM

I don't play a rogue myself but I play with good ones often so here it goes:

1.) Even as combat there are lots of little things you should always be aware of, such as keeping slice and dice up all the time, recup when you're taking damage, etc. If you're being targeted make sure to keep feint up as much as possible, rogues are really squishy so being able to pre-feint stuns and swaps in general is incredibly important. Always pay attention to stun dr's because if you don't you can literally lose a game from failing to wait a few seconds for dr's to reset, I recommend an addon like gladius or diminishingreturns to help with tracking such things. Last but not least it's important to have good arena awareness and positioning but these are things that usually come naturally as you become more experienced.

2.) Target priority all depends on the partner(s) you're playing with. In general if you're playing with something like a mage or a hunter it's best to cc healers and focus their dps partners. If you're playing with a healer it's usually fine to train other healers but once again it just depends on what classes you're playing with and the comps you're facing. Spamming skirms is a great way to get better but instead of just playing with randoms find someone to que with over and over and try to build some synergy. This'll make it much easier to notice the flaws in your gameplay even if your partner isn't very xp'd himself.

3.) Again I don't play a rogue myself but combat is very strong and generally pretty simple compared to subtlety and assasination is gimmicky, so just stick with combat for the time being.

4.) I see that you're horde so if you're trying to find people to play with the easiest way to accomplish this is to transfer to alliance or level an ally rogue. The vast majority of good pvpers are on alliance so if you're trying to get better yourself you'll need to play alliance sooner or later, plain and simple. Obviously you can find partners in-game through the LFG tool and whatnot but hitting up the wow arena forums is a good option as well. You can subscribe to sites like skill-capped or find various guides but honestly watching streams is such an easy and free way to improve your gameplay, look for any decent rogue streams on twitch and just study what they do.
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#3 Desamas

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 12:10 AM

Freshington,

Thank you very much for your reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond!

I will be sure to focus on the aforementioned skills, in particular SnD, as I know that's one that falls off quite a bit.

If I win with someone in the arena I will usually try to que with that partner again, however the winning usually doesn't last long, along with the partnership. I'll make a larger effort to find a sustainable partnership in the future.

It's nice to know that combat is that way to go, thanks for confirming that.

As far as alliance servers go, are there any that are better for PvP / ones that should be avoided? Would it be best to go to a highly rated server to learn, or would that make it even harder to learn?

Thanks again, you helped answer quite a bit!

Cheers, Desamas
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#4 EverRog

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 01:40 AM

try this opener against healers:

"go stealth of curse* mark+shadow reflec.+kidney+adrenaline then use revealing strike and evis with 5cp, now w8 until kidney is 1sec to finish then vanish + silence+ evis, when ur target gonna get out from silence, ur copy gonna kidney him.

If you openned with adrenaline, on ur next stun DR, you will have red buff, so kidney + killing spree the healer, u probably gonna win right here at ratings under 1500 or 1400.

Try to pull some energy before a kidney (dont need if u gonna cast kidney+killing spree). After the opener i told to u, u should have SnD always active.

when you achiv more rating, say to ur healer that he should CC the dps b4 burst to prevent any enemy CC when u are going dmg.


Sorry for my english.
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#5 Call Me Teranaye

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 02:30 PM

well played wel pplaied keep it up
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#6 Desamas

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 06:26 PM

Sacredheal,

Thanks for responding!

I'll be sure to practice that sequence, it seems very effective. Is it designed to either kill them or force a trinket? If they do break the stun do I just continue the sequence into the next stun / silence? Also, for SnD you are referring to activating it after the silence + eviscerate right?

I managed to find a Boomkin to play with. We are terrible, but hopefully with some practice we get better! Will this combo be effective with a Boomkin as well?

Thanks again.

Cheers, Desamas
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#7 EverRog

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 10:34 PM

Sacredheal,

Thanks for responding!

I'll be sure to practice that sequence, it seems very effective. Is it designed to either kill them or force a trinket? If they do break the stun do I just continue the sequence into the next stun / silence? Also, for SnD you are referring to activating it after the silence + eviscerate right?

I managed to find a Boomkin to play with. We are terrible, but hopefully with some practice we get better! Will this combo be effective with a Boomkin as well?

Thanks again.

Cheers, Desamas


This sequence is for make presure and force as many CDs as you can, if they trinket ur first kidney, just vanish silence early.

You can make this opener playing with any comps but if you dont do it against a healer/ret/DPSshaman or any other class like them, dont silence when you vanish, just eviscerate.

You should cast SnD after the openner burst, when you know you can not force nothing more so it is silly to spend CP on evis instead of SnD.
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#8 bl00dlust

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 12:35 AM

Freshington,

Thank you very much for your reply. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond!

I will be sure to focus on the aforementioned skills, in particular SnD, as I know that's one that falls off quite a bit.

If I win with someone in the arena I will usually try to que with that partner again, however the winning usually doesn't last long, along with the partnership. I'll make a larger effort to find a sustainable partnership in the future.

It's nice to know that combat is that way to go, thanks for confirming that.

As far as alliance servers go, are there any that are better for PvP / ones that should be avoided? Would it be best to go to a highly rated server to learn, or would that make it even harder to learn?

Thanks again, you helped answer quite a bit!

Cheers, Desamas


Kel'Thuzad is a good, strong alliance server. lot's of pvpers and usually pretty easy to find partners

also, I would try streaming and making recordings of your games. it's so much easier to critique yourself that way. especially positioning. a lot of bad positioning is hard to notice when youre just so used to playing that way. but when you see yourself play from a 3rd person point of view, it's easy to go "wtf did i do that for.."

Edited by bl00dlust, 06 January 2016 - 12:37 AM.

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#9 Desamas

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 03:07 AM

This sequence is for make presure and force as many CDs as you can, if they trinket ur first kidney, just vanish silence early.

You can make this opener playing with any comps but if you dont do it against a healer/ret/DPSshaman or any other class like them, dont silence when you vanish, just eviscerate.

You should cast SnD after the openner burst, when you know you can not force nothing more so it is silly to spend CP on evis instead of SnD.


Sacredheal,

Thanks again for clarifying! That makes more sense to me now.

The only other question I have would be regarding the classes you mentioned to avoid silencing. I can't seem to find the commonality between them. I'm assuming that you don't silence the healer so you can burst them down faster before they can heal. However, why not silence ret and DPSshaman? They don't seem related to me, what am I missing? What is their link so I can expand that to the other classes you mentioned.

Kel'Thuzad is a good, strong alliance server. lot's of pvpers and usually pretty easy to find partners

also, I would try streaming and making recordings of your games. it's so much easier to critique yourself that way. especially positioning. a lot of bad positioning is hard to notice when youre just so used to playing that way. but when you see yourself play from a 3rd person point of view, it's easy to go "wtf did i do that for.."


Zombies,

Thanks for taking the time to respond!

I'll be sure to look into Kel'Thuzad as a potential option. Thanks for pointing it out!

Recording games makes complete sense to me. I wouldn't have thought of that, but it seems extremely helpful! Do you have any recommendations for a good recording program?

Cheers, Desamas
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#10 EverRog

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Posted 06 January 2016 - 04:22 AM

Sacredheal,

Thanks again for clarifying! That makes more sense to me now.

The only other question I have would be regarding the classes you mentioned to avoid silencing. I can't seem to find the commonality between them. I'm assuming that you don't silence the healer so you can burst them down faster before they can heal. However, why not silence ret and DPSshaman? They don't seem related to me, what am I missing? What is their link so I can expand that to the other classes you mentioned.


No, i mean u have to silence those classes, if it is a healer, he can not heal, and if you are playing mage/rogue for example and you go ret, he can not sac the healer and dispel the poly and if hes a sham he can not grounding the poly or kick it. So you gonna stun him, then silence him, and your copy gonna stun him again, 6+3+3=12sec doing nothing because your target is on CC, so you can force so many cds because of that.

Anyways, as Fresh told you, if you are playing 2s with a healer, you should go to the enemy healer almost all the times, maybe if hes a hpala or wmonk, you should go switching all the game.

When i face an affli/healer i prefer to open on the healer with the opener i told you and then go to the lock kicking all cast (if he fakes a lot i let him to fake many times b4 i kick him) and when i cant kick, i gouge/stun/silence the lock to avoid getting dotted, and if i am dotted, my healer gonna dispel me and lock have to make a great job to dot me again.

I think those were the most different matches you can find playing with combat/healer.
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#11 Desamas

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 02:33 AM

Sacredheal,

Thanks yet again for the help! That makes much more sense. I'll be sure to work on everything you have given me to improve upon.

Cheers, Desamas
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#12 bl00dlust

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 02:09 AM

Recording games makes complete sense to me. I wouldn't have thought of that, but it seems extremely helpful! Do you have any recommendations for a good recording program?


yeah, just make an account on twitch and read their "How To" guide they have. it'll walk you through everything you need to know to start using OBS (Open Broadcast Software)

http://help.twitch.t...caster-software
http://www.twitch.tv/broadcast
http://www.twitch.tv/
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#13 EverRog

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 12:12 AM

Sacredheal,

Thanks yet again for the help! That makes much more sense. I'll be sure to work on everything you have given me to improve upon.

Cheers, Desamas


Nice to hear it! I try to help AJ community as they have helped me. Ask something and everybody are going to try to help you. gl hf!
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#14 Relentless

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Posted 23 January 2016 - 01:16 PM

People already mentioned the importance of keeping SnD up as combat (Autoattacks and main gauche make up a lot of your damage) but just wanted to add that a good addon I use (on my warrior for sweeping strikes) is "needtoknow".

You can set it up really easily and adjust the size, colour, etc so its more obvious when your buff is about to drop, I have my frames in the middle of my screen instead of top left so found it a pain to keep checking top right for a small icon amongst many buffs / debuffs.

http://www.curse.com...ow/need-to-know

Good luck improving in arena!
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#15 wods1combatxd

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 08:08 PM

Hi all,

First time posting, I apologize if this is the wrong place.

I have played rogue for a long time, and have always enjoyed PvP. That being said, I suck. Most of my friends stick to PvE and have no interest in PvP. I would love to get better, perhaps even "good".

I've tried to improve on my own via videos and guides that are readily available, but without a feedback system I feel I am reinforcing deeply ingrained bad habits.

Therefore I have a few questions, unsure if they are easily answered.

1.) Are there common mistakes that low level rogues tend to make that I can easily identify myself?

2.) I play combat but I am not quite sure of my target priority in arenas. (I have just been spamming skrims to get used to arena so my comp varies). I usually prioritize healers > cloth > mail > plate.

3.) Is combat the "easiest" to learn / most versatile for playing on my own? From my reading it seemed this way, but a reassuring nod or correction would be nice.

4.) Are there any places in the forums / alternative sites where low level players can team up with better players or like-minded individuals to get better?

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond, I apologize for the haphazard format.

Cheers, Desamas


Be hard on yourself when you're improving, use another Rogues playstyle as a "format", and play by his style as if it was a Bible and you're a hardcore believer.

Low level Rogues do a lot of mistakes, hell even the good ones does. I'll tell you some of the mistakes a lot of Combats do:

Do NOT use recup unless you're super low on HP, try to use it vs classes that have damage which sort of creeps up on you instead of burst classes (like, affliction locks/survival hunters)
Don't overdo the slice and dice if you're combat, sure it's good to have it up - but you should spend 5 cp all the time just to keep it up due to Ruthlessness not being affected by it, so if you believe you can't line redbud and spree don't spam SS and SnD or you won't line it. The reason you should try to line Redbuff and are is pretty obvious ;)
Always use Feint glyph vs Mages
If you're ever planning on swapping healers, play Garrote glyph
Speaking about swapping healers, do it mostly vs Druids, the others can normally just be trained down.
Use shield wall (combat readiness) sometimes while training healers and they are low so you won't be swapped to
Glyph of disappearance is mandatory, NEVER swap it out
As Combat, see yourself as a Warrior really - due to the combat mastery you should always be hitting something, just to keep up your buff.
Hold your kick, don't just kick on the first cast you see on a healer
Always play 4 piece PvP set as Combat
Vs hpaladins, try to hold your kick until they are low - they are the only healer that truly spam casts to top something (especially in dampening) aka you can normally just go through with pure damage
Pop your on use trinket on trinket proc for max damage
Learn the cookie cutter combat opener that works vs almost every single class
Play with healers, you need long games to learn, not random doule DPS games where only damage is relevant
If you're looking for good combat rogues I suggest watching someone like Whaazz maybe, it isn't a educational stream itself but you might pick up a thing or two, ask good rogues how they do their tactics, and don't be scared of being bad.

I'm well aware that it's a wall of text, I wrote this on my phone while taking a dump lmao GL spamming SS now

Edited by wods1combatxd, 18 February 2016 - 08:09 PM.

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