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Real cycle as Frost DW ?


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#1 Sosuk

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 01:14 AM

Hi (sry for my english i'm from France) :v

So i read a lot of guide about the cycle in pvp for Frost DK as DW.

My priority order for DAMAGE at the moment is :
Howling > Frost strike > Obliterate.

I have seen in a lot of guide, to avoid obliterate, but dunno why, i think in my personnal view it's the best way to use Unholy runes (and 45% chance to get a free 120% Howling and the proc 4/5 set).
So for me i don't see another better way to spend my unholy rune, but maybe i missed something ?

Moreover, when u use obliterate, do u use a macro to swap weapon to 2H just during the obliterate (For extra damage on obliterate ) and then swap weapons for DW for others spell ?

I was EVER a player of unholy DK, i just try to understand the better way to play this spec :P

Thank you for future answers :)
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#2 Rexyyoxxx

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 02:39 AM

ive just started to learn dk as an alt and i want to know this too :)
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#3 Regent

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 03:54 AM

The thing with DK that is different than other classes, is that sometimes you should not use every global since waiting would provide you with more dps.

You can use unholy runes on plague strike to hit totems or do some free damage. Howling blast is almost always better in the long run, and all your procs should 100% go to frost strikes since fs hits twice as hard as obliterate.

There are very fringe cases where you should obliterate to get an immediate kill if you dont have runic power to fs, but have proc and the enemy is in melee range with too much health to howling blast but would die to obliterate.

Frost DK is currently about doing sustained pressure, not really killing people randomly in a short amount of time.

It may be that your gear is incorrect, or you aren't stacking enough mastery if you feel obliterate is actually good. Obliterate isn't affected by mastery, while howling blast and frost strike are, and stacking mastery is the thing that makes dual wield frost viable.

Edited by Regent, 06 December 2015 - 03:55 AM.

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#4 Sosuk

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 04:45 AM

I know that obliterate don't stack with Mastery and do PHYSICAL damage instead of frost.

But it's the same for Plague Strike.

The point is, i have to use the unholy rune. and there are two choice : Plague strike for 3k damage (+1 stack necro). Or use Obliterate with 1 unholy/freeze rune do something like 10k damage and faster Runic power generation (+2runes spend in one gcd => u will recover one rune faster) and 45% chance to have 120% howling blast free.

Do you know if pro DK use macro for switch 2H weapon before use obliterate ? ( for the pssive +50% damage on obliterate with 2H )?

Thanks for reply :)
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#5 Relentless

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 09:43 AM

Weapon swapping is not worth it because of the global incurred. Regent has answered the other part of your question, obliterate is only really worth using if you are running with 4 set.
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#6 Treta

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 10:46 AM

Talking from a pure DPS perspective, using Obliterate is theorically optimal when you have 2 Unholy Runes up OR a KM proc and no Runic Power to use Frost Strike. The last condition can be tricky though. You need to know if you will have enough uptime to get another KM soon. If the KM buff refreshes while you have one up, it goes to waste.

Also, have in mind you can use your Unholy Runes for Death Strikes.

About the weapon swapping: not only it incurs a GCD, but also it has the tremendous downside of cancelling Threat of Thassarian and Might of the Frozen Wastes all together for like 30 secs the last time I checked. These are your weapon specialization passive buffs that increase Frost Strike damage as DW and Obliterate damage as 2H. It's such a shitty ass bug Blizzard doesn't seem to care enough to fix. If that didn't happen you could macro a 2H to Blood Presence and have decent damage while getting tunneled hard (and also add some depth to the spec).
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#7 Relentless

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 10:53 AM

About the weapon swapping: not only it incurs a GCD, but also it has the tremendous downside of cancelling Threat of Thassarian and Might of the Frozen Wastes all together for like 30 secs the last time I checked. These are your weapon specialization passive buffs that increase Frost Strike damage as DW and Obliterate damage as 2H. It's such a shitty ass bug Blizzard doesn't seem to care enough to fix. If that didn't happen you could macro a 2H to Blood Presence and have decent damage while getting tunneled hard (and also add some depth to the spec).


Can't get online to test but sure this bug was fixed? Will try and look later. A further point is also that you lose the 10% frost damage from razorice from going to 2h.

Its true in that in simple theoretical dps terms obliterate as DW is worth it, but the reality in almost all arena games is that you will almost always have a better alternative to be spending that global on, be that plague striking totems, spreading necrotic plague to more targets, purging or just prioritizing KM procs on frost strikes.
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#8 Treta

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 11:07 AM

Can't get online to test but sure this bug was fixed? Will try and look later. A further point is also that you lose the 10% frost damage from razorice from going to 2h.

Its true in that in simple theoretical dps terms obliterate as DW is worth it, but the reality in almost all arena games is that you will almost always have a better alternative to be spending that global on, be that plague striking totems, spreading necrotic plague to more targets, purging or just prioritizing KM procs on frost strikes.


It's still bugged, I am testing it right now. Takes a long time before the game refreshes Might of the Frozen Wastes on weapon swap. If you leave combat after the weapon swap it seems to be updating, though. That would still make it worthless, because you would want to go 2H/Blood Presence when you start to get trained (no way to get out of combat quickly).

Weapon swapping simply doesn't work like it should :\
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#9 Forumz

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 12:51 PM

Idk why people say Howling Blast is good, it's usually much better to just Icy Touch for the purge.
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#10 sarma

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 02:52 PM

Idk why people say Howling Blast is good, it's usually much better to just Icy Touch for the purge.


if you have 2+ targets close always use howling blast

40k+ dps over 3 min game vs never lucky rng purge = profit.

Edited by sarma, 06 December 2015 - 02:53 PM.

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#11 raizz

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 10:20 PM

Sorry if this abit unrelated to this thread but just wanted to ask, what order do people buy their PvP Conquest gear ?
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#12 Regent

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 04:09 AM

Sorry if this abit unrelated to this thread but just wanted to ask, what order do people buy their PvP Conquest gear ?


Necklace, Cape, Rings, Weapons > everything else depending on what random drops you got/if you got any bis random drops
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#13 Cenobite

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Posted 07 December 2015 - 08:15 PM

Sorry if this abit unrelated to this thread but just wanted to ask, what order do people buy their PvP Conquest gear ?

Better buy Head or shoulders of the set,those are bis
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