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[Warrior] Legion changes


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#1 ~Invictus

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:34 AM

http://beta.wowdb.co...nt-calculator#G
http://beta.wowdb.co...nt-calculator#F
http://www.mmo-champ...ges-Build-20740

So basically,
  • Warbringer is now a Protection only talent,
  • Die by the Sword is now a talent,
  • Shouts are gone,
  • Overpower is now a talent,
  • Heroic Strike is now a talent but Protection has it baseline,
  • Intercept is now Protection's name for Charge and a talent that seems to imply we're losing Intervene.

Fingers crossed for most of this stuff to be some datamining shenanigan. Losing Spell Reflection, Vigilance and Intervene would hurt a lot.

Arms' PvP tree seems really lackluster, and Fury's looks like it has some pretty decent choices all in all.
I'm torn between a let's wait and see and WOD 2.0 BOYS.
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#2 Speedymart

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 12:55 AM

Just roll demon hunter
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#3 Maleficent

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 01:46 AM

A lot better than what Warrior is currently.
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#4 Moshe

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 06:02 AM

It's funny how survival hunter's harpoon is just a better version of charge. BTW juggernaut is gone so charge is 20sec cd
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#5 Pinka

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 05:42 PM

Intercept gone. Charge back on a 20 sec cd. Leap no longer reduced by anger management. They went away with making warriors the prime mobility melee. Demon hunters will forfill that role now.

From what im seeing warrior will be able to deal a load of damage and be hard to kill in return for their lost mobility.

Short offensive cooldowns. Reck 1 min cd. 100% crit for 5 sec. Further reduced by talents.
Lots of options to swap abilities to your own liking.
Buffed self healing. And survival. According to the pvp talent calculator it seems we are one of the few classes that gets a different T2 row that is all about survivial.
New second wind, Passive healing through slam. Buffed second wind self healing, bloodthirst and enraged regen. And a lot of damage reduction options.

What amazes me the most however is how prot turned out. I did not expect all the cc/ peel talents.
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#6 ~Invictus

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 06:53 PM

Passive healing through rng Slam, though.
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#7 Pinka

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 09:10 PM

Passive healing through rng Slam, though.

Compared to now. Its basicly victory rush that happens around every 2-3 slams. + you can combine it with second wind.
Talking about victory rush. That got buffed aswell.
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#8 jgw

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Posted 25 November 2015 - 11:09 PM

I'd just like to be a single target damage dealer, rather than a rend/ww bot that spreads pressure feeling weak in between MS cd. To do that they'll need to take away our spread pressure (please do).

I preferred the old style in WOTLK where if a warrior was on you it was like 'get the warrior the fuck off me' rather than now where it feels more like we are a melee warlock ..... the warrior's damage is slowly accumulating and becoming a problem, uh oh... not as much fun.
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#9 Hollowinside

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 04:53 PM

Tbh, I fail to understand their logic behind these talent tier choices and I can honestly say I am greatly dissapointed when looking at Arms Warriors.

In the first tier, we get to choose between 2 stuns and a passive AoE ability which only affects Execute. How are these even relevant? And so on until the lvl 100 tier.

In the third tier, we get to choose between self-healing, mobility, and a defensive cd. xD What are they even doing? I think it would be ok if there was a reasoning behind this, but I fail to see any. In this case, wouldn't it make more sense to have the lvl 60 tier Second Wind swap places with the lvl 30 Bounding Strike? At least you would get to choose between self-healing by dps, self-healing out of combat, or no self-healing at all but a big def cd instead. While in the lvl 60 tier you would have to choose between x2 Charge and shorter Leap.

Also, Bladestorm with Rend! ._.
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Because the random name generator might pump out Lortfanden, which sounds like a pretty generic fantasy Warrior name in English, until you realize it means "Shit Fuck" in Danish.

#10 Pinka

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 05:15 PM

Tbh, I fail to understand their logic behind these talent tier choices and I can honestly say I am greatly dissapointed when looking at Arms Warriors.

In the first tier, we get to choose between 2 stuns and a passive AoE ability which only affects Execute. How are these even relevant? And so on until the lvl 100 tier.

In the third tier, we get to choose between self-healing, mobility, and a defensive cd. xD What are they even doing? I think it would be ok if there was a reasoning behind this, but I fail to see any. In this case, wouldn't it make more sense to have the lvl 60 tier Second Wind swap places with the lvl 30 Bounding Strike? At least you would get to choose between self-healing by dps, self-healing out of combat, or no self-healing at all but a big def cd instead. While in the lvl 60 tier you would have to choose between x2 Charge and shorter Leap.

Also, Bladestorm with Rend! ._.


They already answered they wanted to avoid talents to compete with each other on the same tier. They want you to pick a build to your liking.

So they went for the pick something but lose something else way.
Want aoe? Sure pick sweeping strikes (which by the way also effects your mortal strike also the 50% penalty is gone.) You lose your stuns.
Want more mobility? You lose survival through self healing and a defensive cooldown.

With that sence it also avoids the cookie cutter build where everyone just takes the "best for pvp" talents. They are more tied to your tactic since you litterally have to choose if you want either increase your mobility, cc, aoe, pressure or burst.
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#11 The_Observer

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 05:16 PM

What are they even doing?


Remember what happened to rogues in the start of mop they are now doing that to everyone. Pick between what you already had and talent rows that have abilities that have nothing to do with one another.
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#12 Hollowinside

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 05:57 PM

They already answered they wanted to avoid talents to compete with each other on the same tier. They want you to pick a build to your liking.

So they went for the pick something but lose something else way.
Want aoe? Sure pick sweeping strikes (which by the way also effects your mortal strike also the 50% penalty is gone.) You lose your stuns.
Want more mobility? You lose survival through self healing and a defensive cooldown.

With that sence it also avoids the cookie cutter build where everyone just takes the "best for pvp" talents. They are more tied to your tactic since you litterally have to choose if you want either increase your mobility, cc, aoe, pressure or burst.


I see. I had no idea they said that, but it still doesn't make sense to me. What's the point of having such huge situational tradeoffs? Example (as you mentioned) mobility for survivability, etc.

Imo it would be much better if every class/spec had a standard ''view'', a standard base on it's own, and then you just chose how to alter its ''endings'' by the talents and glyphs you choose.

By all means, I do understand it's not fun to have that standard PvP cookie cutter spec, but shouldn't they work between same tier talents instead of mixing everything up at this degree? Example, Warriors take Enraged Regen on the healing tier, because it has been stated that the other 2 options harshly fail to compete with Regen. Fine, then try to balance/buff these other 2 choices, no? So that there can be a real choice of preference, and not of what is better or more common.

What do you think?
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Because the random name generator might pump out Lortfanden, which sounds like a pretty generic fantasy Warrior name in English, until you realize it means "Shit Fuck" in Danish.

#13 Pinka

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 06:28 PM

I see. I had no idea they said that, but it still doesn't make sense to me. What's the point of having such huge situational tradeoffs? Example (as you mentioned) mobility for survivability, etc.

Imo it would be much better if every class/spec had a standard ''view'', a standard base on it's own, and then you just chose how to alter its ''endings'' by the talents and glyphs you choose.

By all means, I do understand it's not fun to have that standard PvP cookie cutter spec, but shouldn't they work between same tier talents instead of mixing everything up at this degree? Example, Warriors take Enraged Regen on the healing tier, because it has been stated that the other 2 options harshly fail to compete with Regen. Fine, then try to balance/buff these other 2 choices, no? So that there can be a real choice of preference, and not of what is better or more common.

What do you think?


I think it is up to our whole package and tuning what it will end up like. We might lose things like die by the sword and mobility or shockwave when you do not take them. But if warriors end up doing insane damage when they manage to get close or are faily hard to kill due to high baseline pvp stats and defensive stance those talents will mean less of a tradeoff.

And even then. We will still maintain a portion of what we have. (Recklessness looks strong, Def stance unchanged, Execute remains how it is, cleave being re introduced. Even new things like spell reflect reducing damage taken if it isn't managing to reflect a spell. Our second pvp talent row is unique compared to any other class too.
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#14 ~Invictus

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 06:59 PM

Spell Reflection looks like protection only tho, that's one disheartening thing.
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#15 Moshe

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Posted 26 November 2015 - 09:46 PM

I think it is up to our whole package and tuning what it will end up like. We might lose things like die by the sword and mobility or shockwave when you do not take them. But if warriors end up doing insane damage when they manage to get close or are faily hard to kill due to high baseline pvp stats and defensive stance those talents will mean less of a tradeoff.

And even then. We will still maintain a portion of what we have. (Recklessness looks strong, Def stance unchanged, Execute remains how it is, cleave being re introduced. Even new things like spell reflect reducing damage taken if it isn't managing to reflect a spell. Our second pvp talent row is unique compared to any other class too.


Def stance in legion reduces damage done by 25%

Edited by Moshe, 27 November 2015 - 12:11 AM.

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#16 Covlol

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 09:11 PM

Am i the only one seeing spell reflection as prot only?
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#17 ~Invictus

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 11:58 PM

No.

If you browse wowhead things look grim at the very least.

Since we won't be able to play Fury due to the +30% damage taken shenanigan, as Arms it looks like we're losing victory rush, enraged regeneration, die by the sword, thunder clap, spell reflection, shield barrier and charge stun via Warbringer.
Also I didn't see Intervene, but clues seem to point that it's built in with Charge.

At this point only beta can shed some light on the matter.
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#18 Moshe

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 12:20 AM

I agree, fury atm looks better than arms but it has the nasty damage taken on enrage. Fury got second heroic leap kind of ability from artifact weapon talents which does damage and is targetable:

Odyn's Fury (Rank 1) - Hurl both of the Corrupted Warswords at your target, dealing 10 fire damage each, then leap at the target, dealing 10 fire damage to all enemies within 5 yards of the impact.

45 sec cooldown.

Pillar augments:
- leaves an aoe periodic fire damage/snare where you impact with the target for 6 sec
- you gain 100% parry for 5 sec after landing
- gain enraged regeneration without incurring its cooldown when landing
- gain the winds of of the valarjar, making you windy and something.

It doesn't say: "replaces heroic leap" but ofc it can, still very early stuff

Edited by Moshe, 28 November 2015 - 12:21 AM.

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#19 Pinka

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 12:20 AM

Artifact points are uploaded on mmo. There are some powerful things out there. This one in particular looks quite powerful. People are concerned with the 30% dmg taken. But fury will get insane self healing to compensate.
Hurl both of the Corrupted Warswords at your target, dealing 10 fire damage each, then leap at the target, dealing 10 fire damage to all enemies within 5 yards of the impact.

45 sec cooldown.

Pillar augments:
- leaves an aoe periodic fire damage/snare where you impact with the target for 6 sec
- you gain 100% parry for 5 sec after landing
- gain enraged regeneration without incurring its cooldown when landing

Haha Moshe is reading my mind.

But once again Prot is sparking my interest even more.
Intervene now redirects 0 additional attacks, and the damage taken from those redirected attacks is reduced by 0%
Spell Reflect now reflects all spells cast on you for 5 sec.


Edited by Pinka, 28 November 2015 - 01:34 AM.

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#20 ~Invictus

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 01:25 AM

In my understanding artifacts are disabled in PvP.

And +30% damage taken means that in order for it to be balanced, there's got to be some 5.0 Second Wind level of demented self healing coming into play.
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