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#21 varellz

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:06 PM

new design for sub rogue after 12 years, YES!
cant wait for beta
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#22 Forumz

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:09 PM

I like the pirate/swashbuckler idea they have for combat. Subterfuge after every finisher for Sub sounds really broken though.

Edited by Forumz, 12 November 2015 - 05:11 PM.

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#23 varellz

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:10 PM

why does it sound broken? we dont know about abilitys like cheap/garrote or even if theres still -50% armor
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#24 Lostariel

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:15 PM

Welcome to the melee classes that have no auto slow (as it should be)


Now we all just need the huge free execute procs :^)
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#25 TheToff

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:16 PM

  • Nightblade
  • 25 Energy, 1 to 5 Combo Points, Melee Range, Instant
  • Finishing move that infects the target with shadowy energy, dealing Shadow damage over time and reducing movement speed by 50%. Damage and duration increased per combo point.


Seems like this is the new Rupture for sanguinary vein and also the only way to slow your enemy. As you can see it also deals shadow damage which means it's probably going to be dispelable. You also might have noticed that only combat/outlaw is keeping slice and dice which makes me wonder if our only energy boost is coming from the additional 40 energy that we get when using stealth(/"shadow dance"). Maybe Recuperate energy is coming back?!

Overall i really think the new damage system looks good and unique and im looking foward for it but pruning abilities is not a solution for pvp, atleast replace them. So far it only looks like Rupture was replaced but i'd maybe like to see wound poison and crippling poison get replaced with Shadowy imbues to fit the sub fantasy.
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lol

#26 The_Observer

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:23 PM

why does it sound broken? we dont know about abilitys like cheap/garrote or even if theres still -50% armor


" We’re also deemphasizing Stealth, with Ambush being their only remaining opening move. "

So that marks off combat, and assassination has garrote which like everything else shown means it's for that spec only.

As for find weakness if it was still around it would have been listed as its a core passive like the ones listed for the other specs.
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#27 Kroyfel

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:32 PM

If find weakness is gone they will have to up the damage of our abilities to compensate, which might be a good thing, right?
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#28 varellz

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:35 PM

yea right
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#29 The_Observer

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:36 PM

If find weakness is gone they will have to up the damage of our abilities to compensate, which might be a good thing, right?


It can be we'll have to see, But I would think sub would have to hit pretty hard normally if its poisons are gone and snd are gone that's a lot of passive dmg gone and if its cd dmg is gone then it should do dmg like a frost dk high all the time. But we don't know what talents will do yet.
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#30 Lloix

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 05:55 PM

If find weakness is gone they will have to up the damage of our abilities to compensate, which might be a good thing, right?


It's all speculation at this point, but it would be safe to assume that the change to Shadow Dance (doesn't actually grant stealth) means find weakness is most likely getting removed since it will be borderline useless.

Just going off of the spec preview alone it seems like they're moving sub into a less burst oriented spec and have it deal more substantial sustained damage. Rather than one big lockdown/burst setup with shadow dance on the 1m CD, it's now more likely a small dance after every kidney. Could be better than it is now in terms of more consistent damage. If sub doesn't get garrote the spec is going to be way less enjoyable as every SD proc is going to basically be used for damage only or putting things on stun DR from cheapshot...


Edit: Just going off of what we have now, what would a burst rotation be? Kidney (Stealth)>Ambushx2>Evis>CS>Ambush? Not too sure how good this will be unless they tune the numbers, especially considering that mastery will not affect ambush damage, I'm not sure how confident I am with these changes.

Especially considering that eviscerates account for a majority of our burst over ambush, I'm not sure how much it'll feel like you're wasting the stealth activation to do things like multiple evis' with MFD and such...

Edited by Lloix, 12 November 2015 - 06:25 PM.

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#31 Forumz

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 06:42 PM

" We’re also deemphasizing Stealth, with Ambush being their only remaining opening move. "

So that marks off combat, and assassination has garrote which like everything else shown means it's for that spec only.

As for find weakness if it was still around it would have been listed as its a core passive like the ones listed for the other specs.

I like how you quote that part, when literally the next line states:

Stealth will still provide its core Rogue utility
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#32 Naraga

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 06:58 PM

By the way, no one mentioned it yet but wtf at the sick synergy between Shadowdance and Relentless Strikes, that is going to be way too strong I fear.
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S8 ele LSD glad S9 resto shamn glad Thunka

Druid utility is superior to shamans utility already

all the other healers should be buffed up to the point of having a way of not having to outplay 2 dps to survive

Thunka 2.0

disc is way way better than druid.


#33 Forumz

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:07 PM

By the way, no one mentioned it yet but wtf at the sick synergy between Shadowdance and Relentless Strikes, that is going to be way too strong I fear.

I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of all the talents they've been showing: insane synergy with the mechanics of the spec.
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#34 gravyrainbow

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:07 PM

Holy shit, I know this is AJ and therefore chicken-littleism is the norm, but you nerds realize that there is a whole slate of pvp abilities we haven't seen yet, right? It's entirely possible that crippling/non-finisher sub snare falls into that category, and we just don't know about it yet. Might also see some replacement for CS and garrote, though I kind of doubt that. The snare seems a sure thing though, I can't fathom blizzard shitting on sub in pvp that hard.

What worries me a little more is that sub doesn't appear to have ANY core damage CDs right now. I hope they end up changing that.

Re: stealth, I do hope they tone down feral in favor of sub, it does feel like bullshit.

One nice perk about sub is that since the new ambush has a 30 yard range, you've got an extra gap closer if you can manage to generate CP (not sure how that's going to work at range without HAT).

Losing wound poison sucks. I want to know what happened to Find Weakness and SnD. I liked the sheer volume of attacks sub put out compared to the other specs.
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#35 Randomguy

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:12 PM

Holy shit, I know this is AJ and therefore chicken-littleism is the norm, but you nerds realize that there is a whole slate of pvp abilities we haven't seen yet, right? It's entirely possible that crippling/non-finisher sub snare falls into that category, and we just don't know about it yet. Might also see some replacement for CS and garrote, though I kind of doubt that. The snare seems a sure thing though, I can't fathom blizzard shitting on sub in pvp that hard.

What worries me a little more is that sub doesn't appear to have ANY core damage CDs right now. I hope they end up changing that.

Re: stealth, I do hope they tone down feral in favor of sub, it does feel like bullshit.

One nice perk about sub is that since the new ambush has a 30 yard range, you've got an extra gap closer if you can manage to generate CP (not sure how that's going to work at range without HAT).

Losing wound poison sucks. I want to know what happened to Find Weakness and SnD. I liked the sheer volume of attacks sub put out compared to the other specs.


FW gone confirmed, SnD gone for Sub and Assa (Combat still has SnD and extra attack mastery YAY HUGE OVERHAUL KAPPA), MS effect seems gone too as it is listed for monks and warriors but not for rogues.
Also kinda troll that Rake has no CD but Garrote has (functionality is gonna be the same rake gets stun when used from stealth and garrote gets silence).
They somehow also managed to dumb down combat (didn't think that was even possible)
We have to wait for beta/talents otherwise rogue looks like another generic melee.
The "control" point of rogues in PvP seems to be completely gone.

If they dont announce crazy Talents ferals are gonna fit the class fantasy of rogues more than rogues.

Edited by Randomguy, 12 November 2015 - 07:19 PM.

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#36 gravyrainbow

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:15 PM

need ranged CP generator + deadly throw interrupt + subsequent shadowstrike teleport (fuck wizards, slaying bathrobes is my class fantasy)
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#37 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:20 PM

You're a genuine asshole (and possibly retard) if you honestly think crippling at 70% was balanced.

in tbc/wotlk 70% snare on crippling was absolutely balanced, considering rogues had 0 healing/passive defenses

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 12 November 2015 - 07:21 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#38 Kroyfel

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:34 PM

https://twitter.com/...886073466597376

Apparently sub rogues get shadow blades again.
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#39 gravyrainbow

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:43 PM

https://twitter.com/...886529857220608

Shurikens baseline for sub?
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#40 krypticxx

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Posted 12 November 2015 - 07:52 PM

why does it sound broken? we dont know about abilitys like cheap/garrote or even if theres still -50% armor

Why do you just assume they removed garrote or cheap shot? Seriously not even blizzard is that dumb.
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