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Paladin Legion Updates


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#41 Animefreak3K

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Posted 06 December 2015 - 03:21 PM

Don't forget, that we're losing so much of our selfheal.
I don't think, that we'll be more tankier. If i'm looking at our defense, i don't know what i should think about.
Le't see if the Beta starts, and the PvP Realms are up.
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#42 Arancor

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 02:25 PM

Don't forget, that we're losing so much of our selfheal.
I don't think, that we'll be more tankier. If i'm looking at our defense, i don't know what i should think about.
Le't see if the Beta starts, and the PvP Realms are up.

Which heal are you missing? Selfless Healer? Sacred Shield? Other than that I can't think of something that will be lost. Imo Paladin self-healing is not even that great in WoD. Selfless Healer gives you 1 instant FH like every 15 seconds if you are lucky. Sacred Shield gives you absorb that is worth like 2.5 FHs over 30s.

Looking at the legion changes we get that self-shield which is about 1.5 FHs in value every 30 seconds. Almost a replacement for Sacred Shield if you consider that it is also more bursty and reflects damage. On top of that you can get the improved version of FH from talents which will probably heal for quite a bit more, almost as much as SH currently heals on others it seems.

If you look at the artifact traits you will notice that Ret is one of the classes that gets a flat damage reduction of 13%, which can possibly be increased to 20% even.

From what it seems they have reduced hybrid self-healing accross the board, like:
- Ferals have no Yseras Gift baseline, no heal on FB (glyph before), no Rejuv in forms
- Enhance Shamans lose Maelstrom weapons, so no instant heals in combat at all
- Windwalkers lose the heal on Torpedo, Expel Harm (instant heal), they will also have very limited in-combat healing now
- Death Knights lose Death Siphon and Lichborne (Death Coil heal), they just retain Death Strike (which is now 40 RP in cost, which will limit its use stronger than the current 2 rune cost)

Most of hybrid healing will be casted, which may be good for off-heals, but not that good for self-healing when being attacked. It seems that Ret Paladins and Shadow Priests might be quite strong at off-healing in Legion.

I think the whole meta will change a bit and Rets are really among the classes that lose hardly anything in terms of defense, other classes lose quite a bit more. Ferals/Windwalkers seem VERY squishy currently for example, even Enhancement Shamans.
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#43 Kajis

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:21 PM

Yest I was watching Chunces stream, where he was streaming Best WoW/PvP videos over the 11 years from warcraftmovies and such. It was really fun to see old Vanilla/TBC/LK skill sets and how they changed over the years and it was actually something. And I don't mean it like WoW should be everything like old expansions, those expansions were good when it was right time for them and right things there, now it's different times and people want different things.

I guess I didn't really read into hybrid healing ability punning, but what Arancor wrote made me actually realize how Blizz gave out huge self-heal spells to all DPS in recent expansions, which is just stupid in a way. And I think removing tons of self-heal spells is a right path. I just hate those moments when some classes, for example Rog, vanishes at 10% HP and just sits in stealth for 5min spamming Recup until they are full HP...

Even Retri in that part became kinda boring, since if you want to live you have to run away all the time and just hide behind pillar spamming heal, which just makes no sense when Paladins should be Tanky and stand in front of others and take the damage. I might exaggerate some things, but general idea still stays the same, lets just hope for the best of Paladin class for Legion :q

P.S.

Still waiting for my 2Hander + Shield, since Legion = World of Diablocraft.
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#44 Animefreak3K

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 04:24 PM

Which heal are you missing?


We're losing WoG, ES and all the Others.
You can only cast 2 Flashlights, wait 1 second, cast a 3rd one, oom.

I don't cound the PvP-Talent Calc, because there's nothing official.
Even if it would be official - Casting a blessing on a friend heals them for 150% of your spellpower - spam inc?


But it's always too early to talk about something like that.
I'll wait for the Beta and the PvP Realms.
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#45 Kajis

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 05:44 PM

Yeh... so sad that Retri won't be a support-healer anymore, it's so fun just to spam heals... Sorry for sarcasm, but really.

Retri got only:

http://beta.wowdb.co...2-hand-of-light
http://beta.wowdb.co...ld-of-vengeance
http://beta.wowdb.co...essing-of-kings
http://beta.wowdb.co...ssing-of-wisdom

And Wings 50% dmg/heal, no damage debuff on bble, no spell locks on BoP and no forbearance with Artifact weapon.
----

How I see it, judging from current spells. Blizz wants to make Retri a passive healer/absorber, which gives you more time going into the fight and doing that damage, instead of running and hiding, spamming heals just to stay alive. I think it is the major problem for Retri atm, cuz you have to sacrifice your damage dealing for blessings/hands, healing and just support.

I remember I swaped from War to Retri in TBC, cuz Retri was same straightforward DPS in my eyes with some good off-heals and buffs, BoP, HoF, Bble, that's all you needed.
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#46 zenton

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:12 PM

Tbh, for now, paladins and esp. retri looks like the most promising and interesting spec coming in legion (with havoc and survival). Just look what they are doing to rogues/mages/monks - it's truly a miracle they are moving the class in the right direction after 6 damned years. Was waiting for these kind of changes since that shitsack cata.
Anyway, without the hype, we will get finally some realy good utility, fun playstyle, meaningful decisions and choices and (maybe) better sustain. The cost will be probably our offheal capabilities but if everything else turns out to be fine I think we could live with it.
I bet some devs started to play paladin, there is no other damned way we got this lucky so far.
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#47 Animefreak3K

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 03:56 PM

Yeh... so sad that Retri won't be a support-healer anymore, it's so fun just to spam heals... Sorry for sarcasm, but really.


Calm down, you got it wrong ;) .
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#48 Kajis

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 04:39 PM

I'm good lol :q I stil enjoy Retri after all these years, I guess Retri started it's way at TBC and most people agree that LK was the peek of the spec, so much QQ OP Nerf RET was always funny for me.

I don't remember every change right now, but it's like what I feel.

CATA Ret = RNG Damage + OP WOG no CD > Into impossible WOG 20-30 sec CD? patch > 10sec WOG + PvE Gear 2-set bonus

MoP Ret = Low damage, couldn't pass Warrior 2nd wind :D > End of MoP was OP burst, but squishy and ez to cc Ret.

WoD Ret = I dunno, how other people feel, But Retri feels really fluid with spells and they gave us Divine Storm back = happy, but still too squishy.

Legion Ret = Seems promising, I guess Blizz making most of they Hybrid specs into some pure DPS specs with some support spells. I don't mind at all tho. It looks like Ret will have less self-healing, more passive defense.
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#49 Garrockz

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 04:42 AM

it's truly a miracle they are moving the class in the right direction after 6 damned years. Was waiting for these kind of changes since that shitsack cata.


I admit since Cata Ret was just goin to shit, but i wont buy it until i see how Ret will actually feel. And that Divine Tornado + Tyrael Blink Shit makes me kind of want to vomit. Offensive spells are looking good so far and they actually do something about our lack of consistent dps capability. But nevertheless i dont want to be a HOLY WINDWALKER OF DEATH swirling around holy tornados and teleporting by the might of... i dont know since when does it come to your mind that a faithful Holy Figher wielding Heavy Armour and mighty 2 Handed Weapons should have the ability to fuckin teleport?

I just grew to like playing DP Ret after 6 years of shitty Ret Gameplay. And due to the fact im not a 14 year old girl, im not getting hyped on fuckin teleports,in fact it just makes Paladins lose even more of their lore credibility and just emphasizes how fuckin lazy blizz is. But lets just wait for legion.
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Killin' shit since 2004.

#50 zenton

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 08:24 AM

I get your concern about holy tornadoes and shit. But who knows, we maybe even won't use DS in pvp. It happed before....

Still, new blessings, our damage more melee oriented, better sustain (damage AND survivability), more possible combat decisions (seemingly) and auras looks indeed promising. And while Tyrael teleport might not be the mos authentic ability to come.. It certainly might end up being skillful and fun to use (even maybe a necessity).
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#51 Kajis

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 01:26 PM

I think some people like Holy Tornadoes and Tyrael Blink, others hate it and it's fine. Since in WOD Retri is like 90% range spec, it doesn't really matter that much if you have gap closers or not. But in Legion they tune it down back to melee close-mid range and it would bring problems how can you get to the target fast. Paladin would be fine it was LK times, but Blizz in the past few expansions added sooo much mobility to the game, that other classes need to keep up to that. Blinks, 2 chargers, 3 rolls, shadow steps and DFA, teleports and so much more.

I dunno if it's good or not, adding much more mobility to the game and making it more fast paced, but market demands it and Blizz just brings it to the people.
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#52 The_Observer

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 05:27 PM

If you look at the artifact traits you will notice that Ret is one of the classes that gets a flat damage reduction of 13%, which can possibly be increased to 20% even.


Everyone but tanks has that.
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#53 The_Observer

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Posted 15 December 2015 - 05:36 PM

- Ferals have no Yseras Gift baseline, no heal on FB (glyph before), no Rejuv in forms

Ferals/Windwalkers seem VERY squishy

Feral can spec for more tankiness or even more heals than they have now.
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#54 Arancor

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Posted 16 December 2015 - 11:45 AM

Everyone but tanks has that.

No, from what is known currently, by far not everyone has it. In the current implementation you can get 20% damage reduce with all relic focused on it (= permanent def stance) btw:

Specs who have it (16):
- Unholy Death Knights
- Frost Death Knights
- Marksmanship Hunters
- Survival Hunters
- Arcane Mage
- Frost Mage
- Mistweaver Monk
- Holy Paladins
- Retribution Paladins
- Discipline Priests
- Holy Priests
- Assassination Rogues
- Outlaw Rogues
- Subtlety Rogues
- Elemental Shaman
- Affliction Warlocks

Specs who don't (15):
- Blood Death Knights
- Havoc Demon Hunters
- Vengeance Demon Hunters
- Balance Druids
- Restoration Druids
- Guardian Druids
- Beast Mastery Hunters
- Fire Mage
- Windwalker Monk
- Shadow Priests
- Enhancement Shaman
- Restoration Shaman
- Destruction Warlocks
- Fury Warriors
- Protection Warriors

and for these specs the traits are still unknown (5):
- Arms Warriors
- Feral Druids
- Brewmaster Monk
- Protection Paladins
- Demonology Warlocks

Of course everything is not final yet, but considering that 50% of all specs don't have that ability chances are that not everyone will have it at release. And everyone that has played a Warrior knows how much 20% damage reduction is in terms of survivability.

Windwalker Monks especially seem EXTREMELY squishy to me currently. I think in terms of defense Ret Paladin is currently among the sturdiest among melee specs. Only Rogues, DKs and Survival Hunters (and Warriors in def stance) have that kind of passive defense.
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