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Blanket/band-aid changes

blanket band-aid changes

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#1 ProdeGaming

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 09:45 PM

1. Reverting-blanket-changes' logic:

If everything gets changed by the same % -> Everything needs to get changed back.

This is what players ~always do, this is their reaction every single time when a 'blanket' change happens.
This logic does not need to know anything about the game to determine a change to the game. Loosely translated, every time a player uses this logic(tries blame blanket changes), this player gives exactly zero shits about the game, just suggests -massive scale- changes to the game that he/she pulls right out his/her ass.

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2. It's nothing, but a by decimal precision predictable, contradictional suggestion of players:
To have players asking for +31.19% all-healing change in Legion on 2016 Nov 7th 13:31 PDT, things to do:
•At that given time, reduce all-healing by -23.77%.

Without ~any information about Legion, the logic is able to decide that on 2016 Nov 7th 13:31 PDT Legion all healing will need +31.19% and not a -23.77% change. Seems legit.






Blanket changes are very good things to do, and developers will always want to use them. They simply make changing abilities much faster, they're good from both developer and player PoV too. Vital parts of development. Should probably think of these changes as:

Every single ability has been reduced by -20%, 1 by 1.

Can probably see better from that, what the problem is with players just flat out asking to revert them all. It basically never makes sense to revert all.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 08 November 2015 - 11:46 PM.

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#2 Maleficent

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 09:59 PM

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#3 ProdeGaming

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:10 PM

Understand that there are ppl who rly don't care about such things. But complaining about blanket/band-aid changes is a mathematical contradiction.

It means that if one does complain, it's not that it's not good, it's flat out harming to the game. Even just not doing anything instead would've been better to do for that player. So y it is actually enough if players just don't care about these changes. I mean, don't need to understand and I don't mind who does and who doesn't, just, by no means noone should complain.(don't mean offense)

Basically the problem is, there is no difference between individual and 'blanket' changes. Players think there is, but there rly isn't. Blanket changes can just occasionally speed things up.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 08 November 2015 - 10:24 PM.

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#4 PM_me_Boxxxy_pics

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:15 PM

I don't have enough IQs for that shit. 8(
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rLxr7V8.png


#5 Maleficent

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:24 PM

First, Droon, there's obviously a language barrier here. I appreciate your posts being in English but they are difficult to perceive sometimes. Regarding the actual post, sure blanket changes are nice - or even as you claim effective, but they simply do not happen often. Also, what makes blanket changes have innate value? Anyone can adjust numbers by X amount for Y ability. Tossing an overall change to so many abilities, is not always good. You have healers: W, X, Y, and Z. W and X are above Y and Z. Blizzard reduces all healing by 23.77%. It's not just everyone is getting poorer at healing, those already in a deficit will do even poorer. Blanket changes are good when they can help solve a problem that affects that vast majority of abilities. I can see how they're vital, they affect so much and are easy to implement. But lack longevity when you actually assess what each class requires to be competitive/fun. Individually breaking down each class requires much more work and thus having the optimal goal of balance/fun becomes more difficult to come to fruition.

Blaming blanket changes is just a deflection of an issue; you probably didn't lose because you suddenly are dealing 10% less damage or doing 10% less healing, there's a root cause of why you're losing.
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#6 ProdeGaming

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:32 PM

an overall change, is not always good.

This is correct, but this doesn't make them bad. Just have to notice when do they make sense. But Blizzard does notice -very well-.
As I mentioned, should probably think of these changes as:

Every single ability has been reduced by -20%, 1 by 1.

Can probably see better from that, what the problem is with players just flat out asking to revert them all. It basically never makes sense to revert all.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 08 November 2015 - 10:32 PM.

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#7 Eowynnz

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:35 PM

Getting to the point where I'm pretty sure you create incoherent posts just to troll us.
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#8 ProdeGaming

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:39 PM

Also for example how players cause dmg to the game with asking to revert:

Let's say Blizzard increases every ability +20%, 1by1, because ppl asked for more sustained. Then, ppl go 'omg revert all'. So it just tells Blizzard, well wtf players want to revert dmg increase from all these countless sustained dmging abilities.

Oh well, guess we won't increase sustained then.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 08 November 2015 - 10:41 PM.

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#9 Maleficent

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:41 PM

This is correct, but this doesn't make them bad. Just have to notice when do they make sense. But Blizzard does notice -very well-.
As I mentioned, should probably think of these changes as:

Every single ability has been reduced by -20%, 1 by 1.

Can probably see better from that, what the problem is with players just flat out asking to revert them all. It basically never makes sense to revert all.

Well, when you introduce a blanket fix, you're completely changing the pace of the meta; especially when you are only changing one part of the dynamic.

We have: healing and damage (maybe more aspects like cooldown timers?). If you change one, it shifts the meta speed. So tomorrow, if -20% healing in PvP was implemented, things would get crazy. Just the same as if you were to increase all damage by 20%.

Blizzard should be more active about testing these things on the PTR. It is a Public Test Realm after all...:(
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#10 ProdeGaming

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Posted 08 November 2015 - 10:46 PM

Well, when you introduce a blanket fix, you're completely changing the pace of the meta; especially when you are only changing one part of the dynamic.

We have: healing and damage (maybe more aspects like cooldown timers?). If you change one, it shifts the meta speed. So tomorrow, if -20% healing in PvP was implemented, things would get crazy. Just the same as if you were to increase all damage by 20%.

Blizzard should be more active about testing these things on the PTR. It is a Public Test Realm after all... :(

Yes, definitely this is much more a beta or PTR thing, it is actually why I'd like ppl to stop complaining about them before Legion beta haha.
Say, in WoD, there were simply no blanket changes in beta or anywhere. I mean, not surprising the game is completely garbage. Changing abilities is so fcking slow without, no point at all.

But y sure it changes the game, but the game is huge, it won't ever get fixed instantly. But, blanket changes are like a blast-off for fixing. It's just so much faster, y not everything gets fixed, but majority. Still gonna need fine-tuning, but generally gonna put the game where you wanted much much faster.

Like, if ppl complain about blanket changes in Legion beta, it's just a death sentence to it, gonna be as garbage then most likely. It rly does nothing else, just slows development, it's just shit without. Won't be able to iterate as much, won't be able to try different things as much etc. It's just rly good with blanket changes, you can roughly move the game until it's 'kinda' good, then start fine-tuning.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 08 November 2015 - 11:11 PM.

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#11 ProdeGaming

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 01:50 AM

Thing is like, if ppl don't complain about blanket changes, Legion will be enormously better than WoD. Warlords not using blankets for development and then Legion using them is just an immense advantage for Legion PvP.

And y what I wanted to say is that it will look like Holinka or whoever made it amazing, but rly just the ppl made it amazing who chose to let developers do their thing with blanket-change-iteration on the Legion beta. It's just simply huge advantage, can pin-point where the 'mass of the game' should be so well with blankets. Developing with blankets shows what an effective testing rly is.
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#12 ROKMODE

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 02:15 AM

+repped
thanks,
I was trying to convey this same idea last week, but you finally put it into words that couldn't have been strung together better
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#13 Dills

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 05:35 AM

Far out man
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did you ever get round to taking it? It's actually the best free site i've found :)

Gonna take that as you flopped hard and couldn't get near my score with repeated tries :)


#14 Nexxer

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 09:18 AM

Thanks to this thread, pvp will be fixed, thank you based god.
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#15 ProdeGaming

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 02:51 PM

Thanks to this thread, pvp will be fixed, thank you based god.

It's often how, many perceive similar threads, but I'm not here to tell what to do, but to find out what to do. Say, blanket is just a mathematical operation, it's in a way and that's it. Not because anyone wants it like that, but it's just that way and y that's it. So all there is to do is to find out what actually the case is. Are blankets bad to do or very good to do? Kinda matters, because it's potential for thinking the opposite of what actuality is, and that won't lead to anything good.

Like y it's a mathematical operation, and nothing shows that using them would be unacceptable. For example, trying to assume that blankets shouldn't be made just leads to contradiction.

Like it suggests that, only the guy 'reverting' is so fcking smart, that only he knows what blanket change to make. But, if all he does is just 'revert', he rly is just changing everything back all the time.
Should probably look at blankets as:

Every single ability has been reduced by -20%, 1by1.

Can probably see better from that, what the problem is with players just flat out asking to revert them all. It basically never makes sense to revert all.











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Like y they are just very simple, rly nothing to hate about them. Just have to notice when do they make sense. But Blizzard does notice -very well-. But ofc, they just have so much data, this pie-chart is in front of them at all times, just so easy to see. And you just fix the majority of spells about instantly. But what, that's very good to hear, if majority of spells get fixed about instantly.

You can roughly keep moving the game around until it's 'kinda' good. And it's what Beta/PTR is all about, iterate much, try different things etc. Like y not gonna be super-polished, but it's not supposed to be. It should be polished at the end, not in the midst. Blanket changes are like just a blast-off for fixing abilities.
(not to show off)
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#16 grisenx

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 03:04 PM

You should really try to condense your posts...
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#17 Maleficent

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 03:31 PM

The posts aren't that difficult to read. But I sometimes forget the demographic of this website and the people who read it.
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#18 Voksen

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Posted 09 November 2015 - 03:45 PM

As a CS/math person, the more you post, the closer my face and palm get. I want to get in on the discussion and help, but its unclear whether you are trying to educate the masses, or asking for input. Either way, you need to give up or completely rework your thoughts

What others have said: condense your posts. Most readers cba to parse your obscure statements and diagrams. We actually do have 3-4 forum regulars who are of CS/math/engineering types. But you're taking 3 pages of text, with diagrams and what not, to convey something as simple as (A*x)/x = A? Which commutes because A is a one-dimensional (linear) array and not e.g. a matrix or tensor. It really does seem like an attempt at mathematics 420.

We used to have a <theorycrafting> sub-forum for technical posts but it was lost at the end of cata iirc, around the time they redid forums for monks and mop stuff. Anyway I'm lurking AJ today iso rescue this thread now lmk.

Edited by Voksen, 09 November 2015 - 03:50 PM.

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