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Resilience/Battle Fatigue

healing dmg

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#21 ProdeGaming

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:17 AM

Making abilities do 50% less dmg in PVP right now would fix nothing.

Players hating all-dmg/all-healing changes is just a consequence of getting confused and thinking Res/BF are horrible. They thought they mean the same, and they mistakenly hated Res/BF, so if they think all-dmg/all-healing changes mean the same, then ofc they gonna assume they are horrible too.

But it's not that all-dmg/healing changes aren't horrible, they are rly rly good. Their logic:

If most dmging abilities need a certain change -> then changing all abilities by this certain change fixes most of the abilities instantly -> most of the abilities getting fixed instantly is rly good

For example:
If 90% of dmging abilities need +30% change -> Then changing all dmging abilities by +30% fixes 90% of the dmging abilities instantly -> 90% of the dmging abilities getting fixed ~instantly is rly good

There's nothing extraordinary about them, they are simple, just have to notice the opportunity when using them makes sense. Hating them is just y, confusion. The math equivalent is putting all numbers in a ( ) and multiply. Just have to know what it does, and then it's followable, trackable and y there's nothing bad about them.







For example, you just have to go through all the dmging abilities, and take note, what % change would make them better. And maybe you notice when you finish, that vast majority would need +20%. So that means if you change all by +20%, vast majority gets fixed about instantly. If vast majority of the dmging abilities get fixed instantly, that's rly good to hear.

For example, players can test the game with more intended numbers, or just have a better game. Ofc you have to fix the rest of the abilities too, but if vast majority are fixed, it's child's play.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 05 November 2015 - 10:34 AM.

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#22 ContortedTV

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:27 AM

Players hating all-dmg/all-healing changes is just a consequence of getting confused and thinking Res/BF are horrible. They thought they mean the same, and they mistakenly hated Res/BF, so if they think all-dmg/all-healing changes mean the same, then ofc they gonna assume they are horrible too.

But it's not that all-dmg/healing changes aren't horrible, they are rly rly good. Their logic:

If most dmging abilities need a certain change -> then changing all abilities by this certain change fixes most of the abilities instantly -> most of the abilities getting fixed instantly is rly good

For example:
If 90% of dmging abilities need +30% change -> Then changing all dmging abilities by +30% fixes 90% of the dmging abilities instantly -> 90% of the dmging abilities getting fixed ~instantly is rly good

There's nothing extraordinary about them, they are simple, just have to notice the opportunity when using them makes sense. Hating them is just y, confusion. The math equivalent is putting all numbers in a ( ) and multiply. Just have to know what it does, and then it's followable, trackable and y there's nothing bad about them.



You completely missed my point, but oh well; I tried.

There is something bad about them that you're not seeing. There has never been point in the game where that many abilities needed to be nerfed/buffed. It's pointless to tune abilities like that when it isn't the main issue with the game right now.
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#23 ProdeGaming

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 10:56 AM

You completely missed my point, but oh well; I tried.

There is something bad about them that you're not seeing. There has never been point in the game where that many abilities needed to be nerfed/buffed. It's pointless to tune abilities like that when it isn't the main issue with the game right now.

Do not mean offense, but it's most certainly impossible to prove anything bad about them. You can't explain a math teacher, that he cannot put all numbers in a ( ) and then multiply.

You can, just have to know what it does, and only use when you should. You can misuse, but why would you misuse, it's simple. Might be similar to, you can smash your hand with a hammer, and it won't be good, but if you use it when you should, then it's gonna be good. It's just a tool, just don't use when you don't have to.(again, don't mean offense)

There has never been point in the game where that many abilities needed to be nerfed/buffed.

Such opportunities come very often. I think you might be mistaken, what abilities are subjects for such changes. For example, for an all-dmg change, only have to take dmging abilities into account.

Might sound simple, but also it's easy to get confused in 'which abilities get changed by an all-dmg change'. An all-dmg change changes the dmg the abilities do. It changes abilities like Scorch and Fireball, they did something dmg before, and they will do different dmg after the change.
But abilities like Avatar, Avatar does no dmg, so it will do the same thing, before and after the change too, it doesn't get changed.


So only have to look at abilities that do dmg. And if you do that, and put a note at every dmging ability, like 'this should get +20%, this +40%, this +20% again', you maybe notice that vast majority would need, let's say +20%. And this is the case often, because what are vast majority of the dmging/healing abilities? Sustained abilities, they are just rly many, and they often need very similar changes.



You can just go to WoWHead, go through all the dmging abilities and try it. It takes time, but I mean y, to give a grounded suggestion for the game does take consideration and investment. But also it's good, because if you do notice such situation to be the case, then you'll know that your suggestion fixes majority of the abilities, and also is a quick change to make.(whatever you think means fixed) Is just a jolly joker suggestion to give developers.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 05 November 2015 - 11:28 AM.

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#24 Naraga

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 02:44 PM

Resi is way better than battle fatigue as you can min/max your resi at the cost of other stats depending on your needs but battle fatigue is just a flat number for everyone without any interaction.
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S8 ele LSD glad S9 resto shamn glad Thunka

Druid utility is superior to shamans utility already

all the other healers should be buffed up to the point of having a way of not having to outplay 2 dps to survive

Thunka 2.0

disc is way way better than druid.


#25 ProdeGaming

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 02:58 PM

Resi is way better than battle fatigue as you can min/max your resi at the cost of other stats depending on your needs but battle fatigue is just a flat number for everyone without any interaction.

Battle Fatigue means that in PvP you heal for different amount than in PvE. It's not a change, like not a 'passive reduction' you probably perceive it as.

PvP healing reduction -> if you go from PvE to PvP, you'll see lower healing numbers -> PvP healing numbers are lower than in PvE -> PvP healing numbers are different than in PvE

But they should be different, so where's the problem? There's no problem, having Battle Fatigue is not a problem.


Asking to not have Battle Fatigue is just asking for healing abilities to just heal for the same amount in both PvE and PvP. And that's just not gonna work, PvE and PvP are very different, can't possibly use the same healing numbers. So it's just asking to copy paste healing numbers from PvE to PvP, so essentially to just destroy PvP.
But y as I mentioned I suppose you got confused in the retarded tooltip of it. It is misleading and confusing.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 05 November 2015 - 03:52 PM.

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#26 Naraga

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 04:48 PM

Battle Fatigue means that in PvP you heal for different amount than in PvE. It's not a change, like not a 'passive reduction' you probably perceive it as.

PvP healing reduction -> if you go from PvE to PvP, you'll see lower healing numbers -> PvP healing numbers are lower than in PvE -> PvP healing numbers are different than in PvE

But they should be different, so where's the problem? There's no problem, having Battle Fatigue is not a problem.


Asking to not have Battle Fatigue is just asking for healing abilities to just heal for the same amount in both PvE and PvP. And that's just not gonna work, PvE and PvP are very different, can't possibly use the same healing numbers. So it's just asking to copy paste healing numbers from PvE to PvP, so essentially to just destroy PvP.
But y as I mentioned I suppose you got confused in the retarded tooltip of it. It is misleading and confusing.

There is already a mechanic that takes care of that (and should be reintroduced in its "better" state). Its called MS-effects.
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S8 ele LSD glad S9 resto shamn glad Thunka

Druid utility is superior to shamans utility already

all the other healers should be buffed up to the point of having a way of not having to outplay 2 dps to survive

Thunka 2.0

disc is way way better than druid.


#27 Lolflay

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 04:52 PM

Without delving into base damage, base stats and other factors - put bluntly, you did 100 healing naked in a raid and inside arena. You did 100 damage naked on a lvl 80 mob and on a 80 player inside arena, before resistances and other crap. That's my point, which you obviously understood but went on that it's a old system and not necessarily better than the new one.

I don't know man, I believe in letting users of my programs (/ROMs/whatever the fuck I wrote) change EVERYTHING they want to change that's relevant, so taking away that power from players is a baaaaaad practice. This opinion has nothing to do with hating how Blizzard does their balancing or whatever, this is just me hating on idiots who do shit like release Android phones without root/with bootloader locked, HDD vendors disabling firmware modifications of SSDs, etc; Apple being the prime example of such shitty behaviour with a mobile phone OS that basically has everything locked down.


ANYWAY - you still haven't answered my question - why the fuck do you bother ? Do you think that 90% of idiots who frequent this forum give a shit or understand what you're talking about ? Also, anyone remotely intelligent understands that the numbers are off and were off for a long while, the source of "corruption" doesn't matter really, nor does the methodology behind the systems in place which produce said corruption of numbers - end user shouldn't bother with figuring out why something is off, end user should vote with his wallet, something WoW players don't do because they're addicted shitheads.

No offense obviously, I'm just curious what drives you to fight windmills that not even Don Quixote would fight.
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#28 Lolflay

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 04:57 PM

Also, drop the blue, it's uneasy on eyes. Pick grey and bold it out.
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#29 ContortedTV

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:34 PM

This thread lmfao...

I also agree with Lolflay, leave it up to player choice. If I want to get one shotted and do a ton of damage, why can't I? If I want to be tanky as fuck, that's cool too.

Also Droon, as you should know: If Ability 'x' increases the damage you deal by 30%, and then you make "all abilities do 20% less damage in PvP combat", and if people only die during that cooldown 'x', why not just make it so that ability 'x' increases your damage by 24% in arena? I mean that's literally the same thing.

Most people only die during cooldowns of some kind (with the exception of a few comps), so the best thing to do is make....

Lmfao, nvm.
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#30 Speedymart

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 06:38 PM

I like the idea of stacking resil to be tanky or going pve for maximum glass cannon
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#31 ProdeGaming

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 06:51 PM

I like the idea of stacking resil to be tanky or going pve for maximum glass cannon

I like the idea of having 90% Battle Fatigue
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#32 Lolflay

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 02:03 PM

I hate to say it, but Reliuna was completely right about calling me a delusional prick few months back when I was constantly suggesting how to improve the game. Our input doesn't matter.

Also, your global number modification idea is bad from a designer's perspective. The correct way to design a game is to have budget for each hero/class/spec/weapon etc. They have a budget system for weapons yet absolutely nothing for classes and specs. If they were competent, instead of using your ideas after the product is finished and then balancing it ( it's an extremely crude way of balancing btw ), they would work out a budget for each spec according to existing spells/tools the spec has, new spells or tools, then come to PERFECT numbers.

Also, they should drop their methods of "seasonal" power of classes, and instead make all classes and specs equal - this is something that's extremely doable in a very short period of time, yet they never did it past S8 because they prefer some classes being stronger than others at times, basically saying to each player "your time has come, enjoy the OPness". Having scaling coefficients on specs like Affliction being higher than others means that Affli f.ex. will ALWAYS be stronger than other specs as time goes on. I never understood that part of design - it's mathematically very easy to keep all specs equal, both in terms of damage, damage dealing mechanisms, cooldowns and cc effects, even when they're vastly different ( destro which has long cast times vs specs that don't cast f.ex. ).



Tldr is that they don't give a shit and never will, a dog learns that you hit him if he does something after maybe the 5th time you do it, and here we are in year 2015 where idiots still dream and aspire to being "professional WoW players", and where players still don't realise the quality steadily declines over the time. They might hit a success with Legion or any following expansion, because even a stupid man can correctly guess a answer from time to time with a 4 option quiz, but this game will nevet go huge again, nor will it hit the level of enjoyment vanilla tbc and wrath delivered.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#33 ProdeGaming

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 06:52 PM

Great deal of your post(s) are based on that Blizzard developers are idiots/shit in math. But this is certainly outrageous to assume and has nothing to do with actuality.

Whatever change they make, maybe it's because they want to make the game shit, or good, but it's ~always intentional and they with -very- great precision foresee the results.

But you do assume developers are stupid and you go and oversee their changes made, such as all-dmg/healing changes. And just for whatever reason you deem these changes shit. Now, what are all-dmg/healing changes? They are just math, and you certainly know it's just math. So to explain this anomaly, why would developers do something mathematically shit thing, well what could explain: developers are stupid.

So you come full circle. Assumed they are stupid, and come to the conclusion that they are in fact stupid. But they are not stupid, it's unthinkable to assume that they would be, so the whole process of trying to figure anything out based on it was doomed to fail at the beginning. So what should've happened is that, arriving to the conclusion that developers are stupid, should've just made it sure that, well they aren't stupid, so if you ended up here, you made a mistake somewhere or didn't notice something.

And you didn't, because it's not that all-dmg/healing changes would be bad or something, they are the opposite, they are very good. They are mathematically-impossible-to-blame, assuming that they are bad leads to nothing but mathematical contradictions.

Can assume that developers just use them and knowingly make the game shit, but they don't. They use them because it makes sense. They are just very good, that simple.
There's nothing difficult about them, it's easy to see why they are good, just have to avoid essentially impossible assumptions like Blizzard developers are stupid, and then there's nothing mystical, it's just very simple.

Say, for 'Idk why developers did this', - 'because they are stupid' is not and won't ~ever be an answer. Maybe it will be for you or whoever, because don't care about the issue so much. But in reality it just ends there, 'idk why', and you just couldn't explain why they did what they did. Up for you to decide whether or not you want to explain why did they do what they did, but 'because they are stupid' won't ~ever explain it. Thinking that it does explain ~anything, most certainly just gonna lead to misconceptions and will do no good for you.
Don't mean offense, in fact the opposite. I know why they make/try make all-dmg/healing changes and it's very simple. Also it's certain that you aren't so stupid that you wouldn't understand such a thing, so obviously just made a mistake somewhere. And y, just have to find where, well, there. Assumed developers are stupid, can't do that. Or can but y, it will do no good for you, if you rly want to figure it out. But well if you don't, then, whatever, your choice. Again, no offense meant, I just think that you're one of those ppl who rly can think reasonably, and for example, with dropping the possible explanation of 'developers are stupid', I'm sure that even by just yourself you can figure why changing all-dmg or all-healing is very good.
I could just tell ofc, because y it's not a big deal and won't be an amazing trip to figure. If you want, I do tell but y, just shouldn't expect something so amazing to pop up, just have to know that the assumption of changing all-dmg/healing is bad just comes from an oversight and that's it, nothing extraordinary, especially not for you.



Say, I could assume that you're atrociously garbage at math, that's why you don't see why changing all-dmg/healing is very good to do and not bad, and it would explain why. But how could I know you're garbage at math? I don't.
You could be a math genius who spam wins math contests, how could I know, I just don't. But I do know that you're most certainly aren't garbage at math. So even if it would explain, you just aren't, so there has to be something else and y. Ofc can't assume developers are stupid. How could they be, it's one of the most certain few things, that Blizzard doesn't hire stupid ppl. Why would they hire idiots, they don't. They are in the position to just sort out geniuses.

Ofc could assume they just try to keep changing all-dmg/healing because they want to do something that destroys the game and fcks players, but then what, if they rly wanted to just fck with players, why would they even document the change, why not just change all and that's it. And just babble that it was a bug or something and wasn't intentional.
Or how could they ever publicly reason -for- all-dmg/healing changes, if it was just a math-failure move. It would give them 0 credibility, their concurrency would just destroy them. How could they ever expose themselves to other studios, to be able to mathematically prove Blizzard just a bunch of fools who don't know what simple math changes do to the game? To prove them retards who just publicly fail math decisions, despite millions suggesting otherwise. No, they keep trying, because it's not them failing, it's the millions of players. Because y, it's math, and it doesn't matter how many players don't see why they are good. The statement that changing all-dmg/healing is bad won't ever be true. All-dmg/healing changes are very good, and developers will always want to use them.

It's just very convenient, that if they don't use all-dmg/healing changes, that they can point fingers at players 'well we just do what players ask for'. But they should use, to make the game good. Still, what can you do, players truly are asking not to make such changes, so y can say that Blizzard are just very nice guys and rly do just 'listen'. But players are just confused and don't know that Blizzard should use, many and often. And y pointing fingers at players works as an excuse against attacks that would question qualification, but players are in fact confused and don't see why all-dmg/healing changes are very good, so it doesn't rly serve as an excuse for Blizzard being a company that's lead by piece of shit persons, who decide to take advantage of players' confusion the first chance they get. And y they do, it's pathetic and miserable. Likely not developers' idea, but some dick businessmen shareholders' who have decisive say in such things, but y what's sure is just that, some scrub leaders at Blizzard.

Meanwhile, since the needed changes are withdrawn, what it does is, it assures that the game will be much worse than it could be. So potentially it will be just crap, or much worse than what players expected, the least. And so it's just certain that developers who interact with and known among players, will get certain and expectable immense hate. So y from developer PoV, it's not rly a good idea, knowing you will surely get potentially brutally blamed for something that's not even your fault.
It's just not fair, gonna get judged by a game that just isn't even close to what you can make, but something that you were forced to make. It's y it's not rly that amazing idea for developers, ~no matter what. But businessmen don't mind if they have to make the sacrifice that some of their developers gonna get unfairly blamed. They don't care, 'do as instructed or gtfo'. And y many, even 'big names' gtfo, what a coincidence. Especially looking at slight coincidences with Bashiok begging players to try the game instead of getting upset with changes, before leaving Blizzard, or Ghostcrawler after leaving Blizzard talking about 'lying to players doesn't worth it, because players will eventually figure it out' and then urging players to, but not to blame the developers, but the studio instead.
And y, it's obvious that players will figure it out, doesn't matter how smart or well-planned it is for Blizzard, all-dmg/healing changes still are just math, and it can be proven that they are not bad, but very good. It's just a matter of time, maybe long time, maybe short, but y, is inc.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 06 November 2015 - 08:07 PM.

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#34 Lolflay

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 09:10 PM

Can't believe I actually read all of it.

I can't be bothered to discuss about this, considering I don't have majority of the information of what happens behind the stage - I'm only going to say is that the general player doesn't give a shit about % changes, as long as they make sense. I'm also going to say that whatever word you use to describe current Blizzard and Blizzard employees, it's warranted, considering they produce subpar products since 2010.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#35 ProdeGaming

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 09:43 PM

I'm only going to say is that the general player doesn't give a shit about % changes, as long as they make sense.

Problem is that, they don't ever give the suggestion to change all dmg or healing, they just think it doesn't ever make sense. Or at least, they practically don't ever notice, basically never. But y it does makes sense, and it does many times, very often. And so players don't see, but ofc Blizzard does, and they try make the change, and players just go full panic and ask to revert.

Like, players think similarly to, well if there are burst abilities that do very high dmg, then all dmg should not be increased. But this is not true, it can be and should be increased despite that, very often.
Or similarly, like if there are some healing spells that do low healing, then ppl just can't accept that all healing should be reduced. They think like it cannot be explained why should that happen in that case. And y just ask to revert, because prayer of mending or whatever.

Like y it's, basically, I'm not sure if I have ever seen a suggestion to change all dmg or healing, as a general consensus. But y it should happen, like very often, yet I don't think I could find any such occasion, anywhere. Players just believe that they are bad things to do and that's it. But, y that just leads to mathematical contradiction and nowhere else.
Jumping in to develop an expansion without making all dmg and all healing changes is just going straight into the wall. Just not gonna work, gonna be much worse than what it could've been.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 06 November 2015 - 09:54 PM.

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#36 ProdeGaming

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:02 PM

I'm also going to say that whatever word you use to describe current Blizzard and Blizzard employees, it's warranted, considering they produce subpar products since 2010.

Could maybe see better especially from this that, well y expansions are kinda horrible, especially wod or whatever. But it's happening in front of the players. So wow so hard to figure what the problem is. Y players give mathematically contradictional suggestions, ofc the game ends up shit.

Like, Blizzard accepts so many complaints from players, they revert -huge-, massive changes based on player complaints.('reverting' all dmg or all healing changes) So how come, Blizzard listens so many times, at so big changes, how come the game is shit. Well how, players just try to step up against all-dmg/healing changes, trying to do the mathematically impossible, and ofc they just fail after fail and what they rly are doing is just asking to make the game garbage.

And y funny thing with giving contradictional suggestions is that, it's worse than just not doing anything. Players say they want something, then ask for a change to be made that's for the exact opposite, like, y it's just, duh.
Like, what should Blizzard do in that situation? What if their interest is to make the opposite of what players want? Right, they just 'listen'. How convenient. I mean, unless it's in their interest to be nice to players, they just won't be.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 06 November 2015 - 10:16 PM.

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#37 ProdeGaming

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 10:47 PM

Maybe the easiest way to notice why changing all dmg and healing is very good, if you put yourself in a developer's situation.

For example, just have 100 dmging abilities, and just put tasks in front of yourself. Let's say, take a -20%, +10% and +30% changes, and just assume that, ok this many of the 100 abilities will need the +30%, this many the +10% and these others will need -20%.

And if you keep coming up with situations like that, if you write down the total calculation necessary, you'll notice that you'll want to change all dmg abilities even when not all needs that change, and it's very simple as to when and why you'll want that.
(individual and/or all dmg changes are available)
And it's what developers do, it's just that they actually make changes, not just writing numbers. And y also gonna notice why developers should just flip players off, if players always just QQ whenever all dmg is changed, haha. Like players actually tell developers, that they shouldn't ever change all. Rly just makes you cba. They basically just tell developers that they know better, and they just don't and just asking for bs.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 06 November 2015 - 11:14 PM.

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#38 Pinkrangers

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:13 PM

Droon I actually tried hard to make sense of what you're saying but its actually not possible. Not even trying to be a dick, just saying, maybe work on your ability to accurately convey a message. I'm not sure anyone here knows what the hell you're trying to say.
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#39 ProdeGaming

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Posted 06 November 2015 - 11:14 PM

Droon I actually tried hard to make sense of what you're saying but its actually not possible. Not even trying to be a dick, just saying, maybe work on your ability to accurately convey a message. I'm not sure anyone here knows what the hell you're trying to say.

Could you be more specific, don't mean offense. I mean, it's good you point out that you're not sure what I meant, but y idk what reply or what do you actually mean.

TL;DL is that crying about Resilience or Battle Fatigue as a PvP player makes negative sense. Do mean negative, it is contradictional to ~ever open mouth against them. ~Same goes for all-dmg/healing changes.(Res/BF are not all-dmg/healing changes)
I mean, can dispute the % and the direction of all-dmg/healing changes, but to just straight up say they shouldn't ever be made, or to suggest that 'all-dmg/healing are bad' is a contradictional statement to make.

Don't mean offense, but y it's the TL;DL.


The TL;DR problem with QQing about all-dmg/healing changes is the question: Before asking to 'revert' an all-dmg/healing change - How many times have ppl actually checked that every single ability has rly been changed and by that much as in the patch notes?
Whoooops

Yup, kinda whoopsie. All-dmg/healing changes aren't bad, they are the opposite, very good. It's mathematically impossible to try go against all-dmg/healing changes. They are impossible to blame, and hating them only leads to mathematical contradictions, nowhere else.
Only thing there is to do is to figure when and why are they so good. But they are.(even from just player PoV, they are rly good)

Edited by ProdeGaming, 07 November 2015 - 02:01 AM.

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#40 Maleficent

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Posted 07 November 2015 - 05:45 AM

Could you be more specific, don't mean offense. I mean, it's good you point out that you're not sure what I meant, but y idk what reply or what do you actually mean.

TL;DL is that crying about Resilience or Battle Fatigue as a PvP player makes negative sense. Do mean negative, it is contradictional to ~ever open mouth against them. ~Same goes for all-dmg/healing changes.(Res/BF are not all-dmg/healing changes)
I mean, can dispute the % and the direction of all-dmg/healing changes, but to just straight up say they shouldn't ever be made, or to suggest that 'all-dmg/healing are bad' is a contradictional statement to make.

Don't mean offense, but y it's the TL;DL.


The TL;DR problem with QQing about all-dmg/healing changes is the question: Before asking to 'revert' an all-dmg/healing change - How many times have ppl actually checked that every single ability has rly been changed and by that much as in the patch notes?
Whoooops

Yup, kinda whoopsie. All-dmg/healing changes aren't bad, they are the opposite, very good. It's mathematically impossible to try go against all-dmg/healing changes. They are impossible to blame, and hating them only leads to mathematical contradictions, nowhere else.
Only thing there is to do is to figure when and why are they so good. But they are.(even from just player PoV, they are rly good)

I'll be honest, Droon, I don't understand what you're trying to say. Healing/Damage changes are inevitable; it's part of the game's dynamic change of pace. Estimating quantitatively how many and how often people check patch notes is quite subjective. I'd say around 30-40% of the playerbase reads the notes, which is probably way too generous. The rest hear it from friends/family, or log in one day and realize X ability now does Y damage/healing. If we are to assume mathematical changes to spells and abilities are healthy for the game, but only in certain instances, then we are to analyze which are good/bad, right? I never liked battle fatigue; it's a lethargic excuse for blizzard to not balance healing in pve and pvp. Resilience is meh as well. I miss being able to customize gear and maybe using some pve gear which meant you took more damage, now you don't even have that option because of the trinket change.

As a personal sentiment, I would love to see a -30% healing in arena on a PTR test. PTR tests in general would be nice. One week could be a +30% damage or -30% healing. The game is so cooldown based it's boring outside of cds.
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