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Resilience/Battle Fatigue

healing dmg

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#1 ProdeGaming

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:29 PM

https://soundcloud.c...attle-fatigue-1

No offense meant and not to show off





TL;DL:
https://soundcloud.c...-battle-fatigue

First half of the original is not entirely, but is roughly about this


Asking to have no Resilience/Battle Fatigue, is to ask for PvE & PvP to have the same dmg/healing.(so say, since for example PvE dmg/healing won't be good for PvP, if they have to be the same, asking for no Res/BF is essentially asking to make PvP shit)

Maybe good to imagine what's having the ~same numbers in PvE and PvP, to imagine having only PvE gear in WotLK. It would've made WotLK PvP horrible. Asking not to have Res/BF in WoD causes similar situation for warlords, just makes you certain that PvP will be shit. And players by confusion have been asking for no Res/BF all along.
But then there's nothing you can do to truly fix big issues. If you make dmg/healing different, then there will be Res/BF. But players are asking not to have, so it's over in that case, dmg/healing issues have to stay. Blizzard can put their feet up because they know PvP will be terrible then, no matter how hard they try fix.

And players are not to blame, because it doesn't matter if they get confused and mistakenly ask to destroy the game. Blizzard is the one who makes the game. And they weren't ever confused, and also most certainly knew that players in fact were. So they just went 'oh sure guys we gonna have no Res/BF in WoD *rofls* '.

It's just despicable and pathetic, miserable, knowingly keep players confused and just snicker in the background. Those who made these calls at Blizzard can most certainly fck themselves. Ppl like Ghostcrawler/Bashiok/Crithto leaving Blizzard has probably nothing to do with it, jk.

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What a coincidence. Leaders decide to mislead and confuse, lie to players and knowingly make the game shit. And a person that wouldn't like to get judged by such product leaves the company.

I mean, it's basically having to answer 'go lie to players or get fired'. Because you know the game will be crap, but you can't say that, so you'll have to go around and tell the opposite, just gonna have to lie. And there's no good answer, it's an unfair situation to put developers in.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 07 November 2015 - 02:34 AM.

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#2 Blexone

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:32 PM

Jaden pls...
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#3 Knaittiz

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:36 PM

listening to ur thoughts in audio form is just as trippy as reading
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BUY MY MIXTAPE


#4 xndr

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 06:36 PM

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I did the math and got the exact same answer

good find OP
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#5 grisenx

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 07:08 PM

10/10 would listen again
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#6 ROKMODE

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 07:13 PM

you are the brightest mind on this website
you put all of us to shame

please keep pumping out more content man
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Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#7 ProdeGaming

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:14 PM

you are the brightest mind on this website
you put all of us to shame

please keep pumping out more content man

Idk how much you listened, but I do mention that it's not hard to get confused in Resilience/Battle Fatigue tooltips, they are confusing and misleading.

Especially not hard when Blizzard keeps saying that they are so terrible. It encourages believing that they are terrible or bad the least, but if you do, then you're already gone. Then gonna assume that Res/BF are bad for PvP, and that's assuming having different dmg/healing numbers in PvP than in PvE is bad for PvP. Eventually gonna ask to not have them, so to not have difference between PvE and PvP numbers.
But that's just a death sentence for the game ~nothing else.

All it takes is to believe Blizzard. Why would one believe? Because many ppl at least somewhat trust Blizzard. It's a simple abuse of trust. Not a big deal, you can do that to anyone who trusts you. It doesn't take a genius, just takes a son of a bitch.(do mention that too tho past halfway somewhere)

They just invented 2 words and gave them the meaning of having PvE & PvP number differences. Then they went and made a confusing tooltip for it. I mean, from that point, if they even keep just portraying them terrible, it's just too easy to just believe that they are terrible. I mean, the more they portray them as boogiemen, the more believable it is, because it's just bigger and bigger bs, and you just think they wouldn't say such a big bs. Just makes you think that you are the one who just cannot see why they are so horrible, makes you try explain why they are so bad to have. But it's not that they are bad to have, they are good.

The 'Blizzard wouldn't, they are not like that' unfortunately doesn't work, because it seems, it's not like they would, they did. It seems they just abuse any trust as soon as the opportunity comes, despicable.
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#8 Fizion

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:22 PM

Excellent point at 4:20.
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#9 ProdeGaming

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:26 PM

Excellent point at 4:20.

Yea, kinda was my point in my previous reply, it's fcking bs what Blizzard has done. And y it's not about me trying to smash anything in players faces.

Res/BF are misleading and confusing. Put a bunch-o-crap Blizzard talking-in-circles-around-it and it's done. It's just y, just rly shit to go from, 'Blizzard wouldn't', to oh yes they would.
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#10 Maleficent

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:44 PM

Just apply to Blizzard tbh.
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#11 ContortedTV

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:45 PM

You've made probably ~10 posts in the last few months talking about changing numbers in PvP as opposed to PvE.

Yes, how Blizzard does it is confusing: they also have voiced they understand what they're doing when they tweek these numbers (I genuinely think it took them ten years to realize making changes like this is stupid).

Nonetheless, I'm confused what you actually think the problem is. It's very difficult to understand with how you speak/type, so if you wouldn't mind: can you please explain what the problem in your mind is.
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#12 Capstone

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 09:55 PM

this is actually gold
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#13 ProdeGaming

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 10:14 PM

You've made probably ~10 posts in the last few months talking about changing numbers in PvP as opposed to PvE.

Yes, how Blizzard does it is confusing: they also have voiced they understand what they're doing when they tweek these numbers (I genuinely think it took them ten years to realize making changes like this is stupid).

Nonetheless, I'm confused what you actually think the problem is. It's very difficult to understand with how you speak/type, so if you wouldn't mind: can you please explain what the problem in your mind is.

Asking to have no Resilience/Battle Fatigue, equals, asking for abilities to do the same dmg/healing in PvE and PvP.

But they shouldn't do the same dmg/healing in PvE and PvP, so there should be Resilience/Battle Fatigue.

Players by confusion ask to have no Res/BF, but it's just essentially asking to destroy either PvE or PvP. If they have to have the same dmg/healing numbers, then basically one of them gonna have the 'right numbers', and the other will have to use shit numbers.

So for example, if PvE has the right numbers, then PvP gonna have to have the same, and so will be shit, because PvE numbers just won't fit. Ofc it's an oversight, and players don't want that, but y it's what they keep asking for.


3:49 - 5:15 maybe relevant

Edited by ProdeGaming, 04 November 2015 - 10:26 PM.

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#14 Lolflay

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 11:05 PM

Except that Wrath had same pve and pvp damage/healing ( which was only modified by resilience inside pvp, which is how it should be - sacrifice damage stats for defensive stats if you wish to ).

Why the fuck are you bothering anyway ? What's in it for you ? Your insights, just like mine or anyone elses will never be recognized or put to use. The community does not appreciate them either, you're the weird kid who reached a point where people don't even tease you anymore.


The only thing worth visiting this teenager-infested site for is to be toxic as fuck towards said 16 year olds with overinflated egos.


Give it up, WoW is on a decline which can't be stopped or made better, Blizz had its chance and blew it, now they're busy cloning other games and wondering why they're not a success ( HoTS lololol )
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#15 ProdeGaming

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Posted 04 November 2015 - 11:33 PM

Maybe this is better for your question, first half of the original is not entirely, but is roughly about this
https://soundcloud.c...-battle-fatigue





Except that Wrath had same pve and pvp damage/healing ( which was only modified by resilience inside pvp, which is how it should be - sacrifice damage stats for defensive stats if you wish to ).

As you say there was resilience, so PvE and PvP did not have same dmg. Good point and have been thinking about it myself as well, but it's a very big advantage to be able to move at least either healing or dmg differently in PvP. If you can freely move dmg in PvP, you can solve many issues that are connected to Dmg vs HP, or Dmg vs Healing.

Give it up, WoW is on a decline which can't be stopped

I think it can be, it's just a bunch of numbers against each others. There's HP, dmg takes HP, and healing adds HP. When HP reaches 0 'the game ends'.

Can add some mechanics like CC but they too are just stopping healing for example, just change how much dmg or healing there is. It can be complicated, but it still is just many calculations going on.
Ofc if Blizzard is a son of a bitch like that, then sure, game will be shit but normally it can be fixed relative easily.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 04 November 2015 - 11:38 PM.

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#16 Lolflay

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 01:00 AM

No, PvE and PvP had EXACTLY the same damage. The only way to lower the damage was a PLAYER CHOICE ( stack resi or wear pve gear/gem for damage instead of resi ), and the only way to increase it was stacking extra damage gear/enchs/gems, and that's how the game should've remained. A naked player would do the same damage to a lvl 80 mob and to a lvl 80 player inside arena, same goes for healing. Shit like resistances/resilience/armor etc obviously lowered it, but there were no coefficient changes inside/outside, rapid ilvl gear scaling, etc.

Now you're rammed into picking gear with stats they want, fighting against braindead mechanics because they made mana not matter, eeeeee ttttttt cccccccc. Obviously cookie cutter always existed so therefore you "didn't" have a choice, but hey, you could always deviate from the rest of people. Same shit as the hypothesis that we live in a deterministic universe, in which there's no such thing as "free will", rather what we percieve as free will actually being an illusion. If you can't have free will, at least get the next best thing: illusion of free choice.


As for your "numbers".. Sure. I'm heavily into math due to the field I'm in ( programming ), so I understand your point. But you need to understand that if you woke up tomorrow and Blizz over the night implemented perfect damage and healing coefficients into every area in the game, THE IP ITSELF is damaged as fuck, and that's what I'm talking about. I haven't played in a couple of months and even if I was told that the game is perfect now ( arena-wise ), I still wouldn't renew unless they fixed various other aspects of the game which kill social interaction and other shit.

If Legion doesn't succeed in terms of PvP population, SWTOR arena will be as appealing as WoW arena. In fact, if SWTOR had huge player pop, SWTOR arena would be amazing, as it's actually fun and has a pretty good design, Bioware said they would never add arena, but in the end they did because they're actually a good company compared to Bli$$ard, that can go all like "heh, players are right, let's skim forums a bit and talk with them". Holinka and PvP team being active on forums and answering every question would be something akin to a second coming.

Like, they can't even hire a official representative on AJ ( the biggest... Well, only remaining pvp site ), to talk on forums, act as a pipeline between highrated arena pop and dev team, etc. Shows their dedication right there.


Bad game, bad company, they saw what kind of money Riot and Valve are turning due to esports and now they want a piece after systematically middle fingering their players. I say fuck them.

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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#17 Shellytyson

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 05:01 AM

Hi guys, just curious, what are you saying?
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#18 Fakalock

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 08:02 AM

This is adis for my ears >.< Sounds like listening to steven hawkings....
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#19 ProdeGaming

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 09:11 AM

PvE and PvP had EXACTLY the same damage.

If you went from PvE to PvP in WotLK, you did very different dmg. You did different dmg, because you changed gear. You didn't go PvP in PvE gear, you had to 'suit up'. But that's just a 'primitive' form of causing difference between PvE and PvP. You had to do it yourself every time you went from one to the other.

Maybe good to imagine what's having the ~same numbers in PvE and PvP, is imagining having only PvE gear in WotLK. It would've made WotLK PvP horrible. Asking not to have Res/BF in WoD causes similar situation for warlords, just makes you certain that PvP will be be shit.

Say, if you did 100 dmg in PvE, then you went PvP and did 100 dmg *70%*30%*17% , it's not doing the same dmg. 100*70%*91%*87% is just 55, and it's not same as 100. The differences came from gear, but it doesn't matter from where do they come.(don't mean offense)



But WoD's and especially Legion's features are that players don't have to manually suit up. Their dmg/healing and other values just become different by for example PvP template. It's just convenient. Its downside is that you can't take them off, like in WotLK, you could just not-have PvP gear, and go in with PvE gear. But to be fair, that's not a big loss, practically noone rly wanted to ever do that. Because y then you just don't have the intended numbers, and it's gonna be shit.

And currently in WoD, because gear is barely a source of difference, and also because there's no such thing as PvP template, there simply just isn't ~anything that would truly cause huge differences for dmg/healing or other values in warlords.
But PvP and PvE are in fact very different, and there should be big differences. So there should be huge Res/BF %es, but there just isn't ~any in WoD. No wonder it's shit, it's essentially impossible to develop or fix anything like that.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 05 November 2015 - 09:27 AM.

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#20 ContortedTV

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 09:56 AM

Lol, I actually just typed a huge paragraph about why what you're saying doesn't actually matter.

Long story short:

Damage is: Damage of Ability + Damage From Stats = Damage of Ability(1+Statsn) Where 'n' represents the number of stats you wish to take into account (Multi, haste, crit, blah blah blah).

What you're suggesting is to make it: Damage=PvP Reduction(Damage of Ability(1+Statsn)) which is how it used to be.

This exists in the game as the 2-set bonus from PvP trinkets.

There are also modified versions of abilities that function differently in PvP than PvE (Saving Grace, Lock DoTs, and a few other things).

I think you alluded in a different post about how not all abilities need this fix.

This is the exact reason Blizzard has these modified PvP tooltips.

Find fresil ,and you'll find that applying PvP Resil, though appealing when considering Blizzard's laziness, is the exact same thing as tacking 0.8 on to the damage and flag it as "PvP only".

TL;DR: It's great you see this stuff and want to make an effort to fix it, but how the abilities interact with players are far more important than how much damage the abilities do. Making abilities do 50% less dmg in PVP right now would fix nothing. This game sucks not because of how inept Blizzard's team is at math (I think after 10 years they finally realized if you buff something by 10%, and then nerf it by 10%, there's a 1% discrepancy), but because how poor the game design is.

Edited by ContortedTV, 05 November 2015 - 10:06 AM.

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