Jump to content

Arena Junkies was shut down on July 1st, 2018. You're viewing an archive of this page from 2018-06-25 at 16:52. Thank you all for your support! Please get in touch via the Curse help desk if you need any support using this archive.

Photo

Shaman totems in legion

Shaman totems elemental Enhancement resto

  • Please log in to reply
90 replies to this topic

#41 Structural

Structural
  • Junkies
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Mannoroth
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 560
  • Talents: Demonology

Posted 13 August 2015 - 06:39 PM

Honestly the only reason im not talking to nadagast is because i cba getting banned, mods here are touchy, hes completely wrong just like you are


are you and that fedx guy related?

because you both started acting like you're hot shit when you got a title

Edited by Structural, 13 August 2015 - 06:40 PM.

  • 0

#42 jaimee

jaimee
  • Premium Junkies
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Bladefist
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 3,675
  • Talents: Enhancement 2/1/1/1/1/2/2
  • 2v2: 767
  • 3v3: 2564
  • RBG: 192

Posted 13 August 2015 - 07:15 PM

Yes, indeed, should've made that clear too, mages obviously need changes before the "old" dispel system could go live again, that is without a doubt.

@Jaime: Do you actually think the change would make locks that much stronger though? Don't get me wrong, locks are borderline retarded as they are, pressure-wise, but seeing as shamans are the only healer that can allow to constantly dispel lock dots right now, and they'd be only one of 3 healers having their dispels removed, I'm not sure if they'd skyrocket through the roof just as much as you made it sound? It's not like RShamys are the reason why the ladder isn't infected by Rotcomps, is it?

Might be wrong though :/


shamans are aids vs warlock cause of spam dispel, but flat out removing dispel from them would not solve this problem, they need to be punished for doing it via less powerful instant heals/totems and their other tools.

are you and that fedx guy related?

because you both started acting like you're hot shit when you got a title


well ive had titles a lot longer than he is so i doubt that I act like hot shit that much
  • 0

if you play a disc priest you are not a real human being 


#43 relegladhero

relegladhero
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Blackmoore
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 130
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1564
  • LocationGermany

Posted 13 August 2015 - 07:39 PM

shamans are aids vs warlock cause of spam dispel, but flat out removing dispel from them would not solve this problem, they need to be punished for doing it via less powerful instant heals/totems and their other tools.


That's exactly what I meant, it's not like taking dispel away from shaman would make locks shoot through the roof more than they do now

So I guess the only "big" thing that needs adressing before dispel could (!) be reverted would be mages
  • 0
Who the fuck is Enrico?

#44 jaimee

jaimee
  • Premium Junkies
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Bladefist
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 3,675
  • Talents: Enhancement 2/1/1/1/1/2/2
  • 2v2: 767
  • 3v3: 2564
  • RBG: 192

Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:06 PM

That's exactly what I meant, it's not like taking dispel away from shaman would make locks shoot through the roof more than they do now

So I guess the only "big" thing that needs adressing before dispel could (!) be reverted would be mages


i guess yea, its still a terrible idea, for example rog/mage would hardcounter every rshaman team because they would be able to constantly cc his partners while tunnelling him.
  • 0

if you play a disc priest you are not a real human being 


#45 zenton

zenton
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 238
  • Talents: Discipline 0/0/1/1/2/1

Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:28 PM

And they could live with it in the old days. Just make them more tanky. TBC was one good model and wotlk had the best healer balance out there as ever.
  • 0

#46 Nadagast

Nadagast
  • Moderators
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1,791
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/0/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 1878
  • 3v3: 2779

Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:31 PM

i guess yea, its still a terrible idea, for example rog/mage would hardcounter every rshaman team because they would be able to constantly cc his partners while tunnelling him.

RMP didn't hard counter RShaman teams in Wrath...
  • 0

#47 jaimee

jaimee
  • Premium Junkies
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Bladefist
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 3,675
  • Talents: Enhancement 2/1/1/1/1/2/2
  • 2v2: 767
  • 3v3: 2564
  • RBG: 192

Posted 13 August 2015 - 08:32 PM

RMP didn't hard counter RShaman teams in Wrath...


game was completely different, afaik mages couldnt cc the entire team by themselves

also afaik in wrath combat rogues didnt play like warriors

if theres one thing that rshamans dont need its more tankiness

Edited by jaimex, 13 August 2015 - 08:33 PM.

  • 0

if you play a disc priest you are not a real human being 


#48 Nadagast

Nadagast
  • Moderators
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1,791
  • Talents: Affliction 0/2/0/2/0/0
  • 2v2: 1878
  • 3v3: 2779

Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:01 PM

game was completely different, afaik mages couldnt cc the entire team by themselves

also afaik in wrath combat rogues didnt play like warriors

if theres one thing that rshamans dont need its more tankiness


You're assuming that this would be the only relevant change, but I think a change like this would necessarily go along with significant other changes. The goal would be to get classes back to their 'pure' state. Mages shouldn't be tanky as hell and able to use their mobility for whatever they want. Rogues shouldn't be tanky and play like Warriors, they should have to use more finesse and control.
  • 1

#49 jaimee

jaimee
  • Premium Junkies
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Bladefist
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 3,675
  • Talents: Enhancement 2/1/1/1/1/2/2
  • 2v2: 767
  • 3v3: 2564
  • RBG: 192

Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:08 PM

You're assuming that this would be the only relevant change, but I think a change like this would necessarily go along with significant other changes. The goal would be to get classes back to their 'pure' state. Mages shouldn't be tanky as hell and able to use their mobility for whatever they want. Rogues shouldn't be tanky and play like Warriors, they should have to use more finesse and control.


which will never realistically happen
  • 0

if you play a disc priest you are not a real human being 


#50 Nicholaes92

Nicholaes92
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 1,648

Posted 13 August 2015 - 10:16 PM

which will never realistically happen


Why do you people say this shit? God damn you damn pessimists. They have so much opportunity with this new talent system, that saying shit like this makes me feel like you don't want to play this game at all.

Why can't this happen? And with a real reason and not some circle jerk "lelblizzard" answer
  • 1
AJ's Wall of Tough Guys

i'm not your average aj user bro you're gonna have to up you game little boy.

Also tread lightly my friend, you dont know who you are talking to ;)

who the fuck do u think you are, random fucking nobody, u dont deserve any of my time/effort retard. "tell me that a blizzcon" srsly? great fucking insult m9. dont even talk to me


#51 relegladhero

relegladhero
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Blackmoore
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 130
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1564
  • LocationGermany

Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:23 AM

Why do you people say this shit? God damn you damn pessimists. They have so much opportunity with this new talent system, that saying shit like this makes me feel like you don't want to play this game at all.

Why can't this happen? And with a real reason and not some circle jerk "lelblizzard" answer


To be fair, "lelblizzard" is just the short version of the real answer imo... While I still kind of hope for the game to become good again, it's unrealistic... And the worst thing is, I understand Blizzard from a company point of view.

You have to think about it, no matter how people talk about everyone being glad or r1 by now, the pvp "community" (still can't bring myself to call this a community, sorry guys), and more-so the group of high average, good and top players, is literally THE smallest minority that exists in the game... Fuck, there are propably more people having cybersex in Goldshire than there are good pvp players...

Now think about it, why the fuck would Blizzard care about them? You have to see how "big" the changes we want to see really are... I'm just throwing random numbers in now, no idea if those are near reality, but you'll get the point:

Say 75% of the playerbase are dragonslayers, 20% pvp players, 5% roleplayers, or whatever...

- RPers can jack off to anything, because let's be honest, the wow lore is still sick... as long as they pull the same strings as they always did, those guys won't riot...

- Assuming everyone with a glad title is a good player (which is not the case, but let's simplify it), that means roughly 0,5% OF THOSE 20% pvp players are actually good. + let's give it another 0,2% for those that never cared about titles but would have the option to get them, should they choose to.

Now think about it... 0,7% of 20% of everyone playing the game, wants some changes... why the FUCK would anyone care? They make basically no money of the top wow players apart from the one that comes along with promotion from their names. The average player doesn't care AS MUCH about class balance as top players do, because it often doesn't affect them as much (not playing for money, etc.). The Dragonslayers don't give too much of a fuck either, because in PvE the comparison of one player to another is more of a show-off, because the common goal is to do as much damage TOGETHER to kill a boss.

And the roleplayers are happy because belfs got a new model.

From a company pov, purely financial, blizzard is doing fine. They make the most money off casuals and raiders, so they build the game around them.
  • 1
Who the fuck is Enrico?

#52 Nicholaes92

Nicholaes92
  • Junkies
  • Posts: 1,648

Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:39 AM

To be fair, "lelblizzard" is just the short version of the real answer imo... While I still kind of hope for the game to become good again, it's unrealistic... And the worst thing is, I understand Blizzard from a company point of view.

You have to think about it, no matter how people talk about everyone being glad or r1 by now, the pvp "community" (still can't bring myself to call this a community, sorry guys), and more-so the group of high average, good and top players, is literally THE smallest minority that exists in the game... Fuck, there are propably more people having cybersex in Goldshire than there are good pvp players...

Now think about it, why the fuck would Blizzard care about them? You have to see how "big" the changes we want to see really are... I'm just throwing random numbers in now, no idea if those are near reality, but you'll get the point:

Say 75% of the playerbase are dragonslayers, 20% pvp players, 5% roleplayers, or whatever...

- RPers can jack off to anything, because let's be honest, the wow lore is still sick... as long as they pull the same strings as they always did, those guys won't riot...

- Assuming everyone with a glad title is a good player (which is not the case, but let's simplify it), that means roughly 0,5% OF THOSE 20% pvp players are actually good. + let's give it another 0,2% for those that never cared about titles but would have the option to get them, should they choose to.

Now think about it... 0,7% of 20% of everyone playing the game, wants some changes... why the FUCK would anyone care? They make basically no money of the top wow players apart from the one that comes along with promotion from their names. The average player doesn't care AS MUCH about class balance as top players do, because it often doesn't affect them as much (not playing for money, etc.). The Dragonslayers don't give too much of a fuck either, because in PvE the comparison of one player to another is more of a show-off, because the common goal is to do as much damage TOGETHER to kill a boss.

And the roleplayers are happy because belfs got a new model.

From a company pov, purely financial, blizzard is doing fine. They make the most money off casuals and raiders, so they build the game around them.


I 100% agree with you on that. Thats why in another thread I went off on a tangent that blizzard has never listened to top pvpers compared to what they have listened to pve babies and bad pvpers when they cry. And you are exactly right, it's because there is more of them, I 100% get that.

BUT, with that being said. That doesn't mean that they won't, or can't make good decisions by themselves (as hard as it is to type it). because although we bash them, the majority of pvpers (which are obviously bad just like every other game) and pvers are actually helping us. They are also crying about wanting their classes to be more unique and they want more diversity and so on and so forth. So that's why I get frustrated when people act so pessimistic because for the very fact that they even THOUGHT about making a system that can balance pve and pvp separately let alone actually have it implemented should give you hope that they actually have a shot at really helping out pvp.

Now I am not saying you should be optimistic that blizzard is actually going to listen to this community (above average pvpers) because they wont. I'm saying that with this system alone they are already leading themselves in the right direction.
  • 0
AJ's Wall of Tough Guys

i'm not your average aj user bro you're gonna have to up you game little boy.

Also tread lightly my friend, you dont know who you are talking to ;)

who the fuck do u think you are, random fucking nobody, u dont deserve any of my time/effort retard. "tell me that a blizzcon" srsly? great fucking insult m9. dont even talk to me


#53 Naraga

Naraga
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 995
  • Talents: Discipline 1/1/0/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 2268
  • 3v3: 2565
  • 5v5: 96

Posted 14 August 2015 - 11:46 AM

To be fair, "lelblizzard" is just the short version of the real answer imo... While I still kind of hope for the game to become good again, it's unrealistic... And the worst thing is, I understand Blizzard from a company point of view.

You have to think about it, no matter how people talk about everyone being glad or r1 by now, the pvp "community" (still can't bring myself to call this a community, sorry guys), and more-so the group of high average, good and top players, is literally THE smallest minority that exists in the game... Fuck, there are propably more people having cybersex in Goldshire than there are good pvp players...

Now think about it, why the fuck would Blizzard care about them? You have to see how "big" the changes we want to see really are... I'm just throwing random numbers in now, no idea if those are near reality, but you'll get the point:

Say 75% of the playerbase are dragonslayers, 20% pvp players, 5% roleplayers, or whatever...

- RPers can jack off to anything, because let's be honest, the wow lore is still sick... as long as they pull the same strings as they always did, those guys won't riot...

- Assuming everyone with a glad title is a good player (which is not the case, but let's simplify it), that means roughly 0,5% OF THOSE 20% pvp players are actually good. + let's give it another 0,2% for those that never cared about titles but would have the option to get them, should they choose to.

Now think about it... 0,7% of 20% of everyone playing the game, wants some changes... why the FUCK would anyone care? They make basically no money of the top wow players apart from the one that comes along with promotion from their names. The average player doesn't care AS MUCH about class balance as top players do, because it often doesn't affect them as much (not playing for money, etc.). The Dragonslayers don't give too much of a fuck either, because in PvE the comparison of one player to another is more of a show-off, because the common goal is to do as much damage TOGETHER to kill a boss.

And the roleplayers are happy because belfs got a new model.

From a company pov, purely financial, blizzard is doing fine. They make the most money off casuals and raiders, so they build the game around them.

Yet they are losing subs like crazy by building around casuals.

I don't know why you think making the game good only makes that 0.7% benefit. The full 20% of pvp players you mention (its actually way more cause most raiders also do bg's now and then) would benefit from the changes.

We've been over this already and came to the conclusion that making the game harder and have more depth is actually far more fun for casuals than to simplify it and dumb it further down.
  • 0
S8 ele LSD glad S9 resto shamn glad Thunka

Druid utility is superior to shamans utility already

all the other healers should be buffed up to the point of having a way of not having to outplay 2 dps to survive

Thunka 2.0

disc is way way better than druid.


#54 relegladhero

relegladhero
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Blackmoore
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 130
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1564
  • LocationGermany

Posted 14 August 2015 - 12:10 PM

Yet they are losing subs like crazy by building around casuals.

I don't know why you think making the game good only makes that 0.7% benefit. The full 20% of pvp players you mention (its actually way more cause most raiders also do bg's now and then) would benefit from the changes.

We've been over this already and came to the conclusion that making the game harder and have more depth is actually far more fun for casuals than to simplify it and dumb it further down.


Nah, you missed my point. It's not that they wouldn't benefit from it, it's that most of them don't CARE because it doesn't affect their gaming experience.

In an environment where you only play skirmishs, random BGs, PvE, lowrated 2s etc. the nuances of changes won't matter to you because you either don't even get to experience them (for example positional requirement for priest inquisitor glyph) or you don't care because when you're pissed you just say "meh, gonna play some LoL instead of 2s before my main raid starts, this bugs me too much"

Of course they'd benefit. They might not even notice though.
  • 0
Who the fuck is Enrico?

#55 Naraga

Naraga
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 995
  • Talents: Discipline 1/1/0/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 2268
  • 3v3: 2565
  • 5v5: 96

Posted 14 August 2015 - 12:55 PM

Nah, you missed my point. It's not that they wouldn't benefit from it, it's that most of them don't CARE because it doesn't affect their gaming experience.

In an environment where you only play skirmishs, random BGs, PvE, lowrated 2s etc. the nuances of changes won't matter to you because you either don't even get to experience them (for example positional requirement for priest inquisitor glyph) or you don't care because when you're pissed you just say "meh, gonna play some LoL instead of 2s before my main raid starts, this bugs me too much"

Of course they'd benefit. They might not even notice though.

But it does affect them and they do notice.

Let me give an example. For a "casual" pvp player killing a healer has always been hard. Ever since I started playing I see them complain in bg's "x is unkillable" where x refers to a healer that is actually playing well. X players however used to be pretty rare and the average casual dps actually had a chance to kill the average casual healer in pvp. Nowadays, every healer is X. Healing is so simple thanks to instants and other mechanics that any braindead fuck can stay alive indefinitely against your average casual pvper. Just look at the normal pvp forums or mmo-champion, or leave your ivory tower and actually befriend some sub 1500 players. They can't kill any healer 1v1 and often not 1v2 or even 1v3 and I'm not talking about good healers here. Disc priests are the worst for them, cause from their perspective Disc's are the most OP immortal healers around. This is not fun for them at all and actually makes them want to stop pvp.

By making healing more cast and mana orientated and harder in general, we improve the game for all levels. It'll leave more room for good plays on our level, and for the casual pvper it means not every healer is X anymore.

Edited by Naraga, 14 August 2015 - 12:57 PM.

  • 0
S8 ele LSD glad S9 resto shamn glad Thunka

Druid utility is superior to shamans utility already

all the other healers should be buffed up to the point of having a way of not having to outplay 2 dps to survive

Thunka 2.0

disc is way way better than druid.


#56 krali

krali
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Rashgarroth
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 14
  • Talents: Restoration 2/0/0/0/2/2/0

Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:23 PM

X players however used to be pretty rare and the average casual dps actually had a chance to kill the average casual healer in pvp. Nowadays, every healer is X. Healing is so simple thanks to instants and other mechanics that any braindead fuck can stay alive indefinitely against your average casual pvper. Just look at the normal pvp forums or mmo-champion, or leave your ivory tower and actually befriend some sub 1500 players. They can't kill any healer 1v1 and often not 1v2 or even 1v3 and I'm not talking about good healers here..


That's an interesting decision, and I don't think Blizzard will reverse it, lest they completely kill the 1200-1800 healers population.

Suppose healing is made more difficult, and standard DPS players often outplay a standard healer and kill him.
Can a healer outplay a DPS and kill him ? or just outplay him and survive ?

The difference is fundamental, and imho the devs understand its consequences on the average pvp players better than elitists here.

On topic, totems are an amazing toolkit, balanced with being unreliable and low hp. I'm expecting quality of life improvements at least. If class diversity is a focus, Freedom should be removed (making melee cleaves a hard counter) or self only. Grounding should be more reliable as an anti-cc to stick to the spec focus. Tremor is fine, wrt Fear weak current state.
  • 0

#57 Abidalzim

Abidalzim
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Balnazzar
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 832
  • Talents: Mistweaver 2/0/2/2/0/2/1
  • 2v2: 1625
  • 3v3: 2471
  • RBG: 576

Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:45 PM

well ive had titles a lot longer than he is so i doubt that I act like hot shit that much

-> Started playing WoW during MoP.

Nothing personal, lol.

Obviously mages being better tanks than bear druids is the first thing that needs to change, even before anything is done to dispel. Do we need to spell that out on AJ, really?
  • 1
Zaka pa te če naja morš te ne, te pa če pa te ne čuj, kaj te to te je, ne?

#58 Abidalzim

Abidalzim
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Balnazzar
  • Raserei / Frenzy
  • Posts: 832
  • Talents: Mistweaver 2/0/2/2/0/2/1
  • 2v2: 1625
  • 3v3: 2471
  • RBG: 576

Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:47 PM

Fuck, there are propably more people having cybersex in Goldshire than there are good pvp players...

This actually happens on RP servers...
  • 0
Zaka pa te če naja morš te ne, te pa če pa te ne čuj, kaj te to te je, ne?

#59 jaimee

jaimee
  • Premium Junkies
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Bladefist
  • Blackout
  • Posts: 3,675
  • Talents: Enhancement 2/1/1/1/1/2/2
  • 2v2: 767
  • 3v3: 2564
  • RBG: 192

Posted 14 August 2015 - 02:59 PM

-> Started playing WoW during MoP.

Nothing personal, lol.

Obviously mages being better tanks than bear druids is the first thing that needs to change, even before anything is done to dispel. Do we need to spell that out on AJ, really?


i started the game in cata, the argument that people who started the game later know less than people who played the game in wotlk/cata is easily the stupidest thing ive ever read - its something nagara would say, thats how fucking braindead it is
  • 0

if you play a disc priest you are not a real human being 


#60 Naraga

Naraga
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Ravencrest
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 995
  • Talents: Discipline 1/1/0/1/1/1/2
  • 2v2: 2268
  • 3v3: 2565
  • 5v5: 96

Posted 14 August 2015 - 03:02 PM

That's an interesting decision, and I don't think Blizzard will reverse it, lest they completely kill the 1200-1800 healers population.

Suppose healing is made more difficult, and standard DPS players often outplay a standard healer and kill him.
Can a healer outplay a DPS and kill him ? or just outplay him and survive ?

The difference is fundamental, and imho the devs understand its consequences on the average pvp players better than elitists here.

On topic, totems are an amazing toolkit, balanced with being unreliable and low hp. I'm expecting quality of life improvements at least. If class diversity is a focus, Freedom should be removed (making melee cleaves a hard counter) or self only. Grounding should be more reliable as an anti-cc to stick to the spec focus. Tremor is fine, wrt Fear weak current state.

Healers have always been able to kill non hybrids. I dont see the issue? Ofc self healing needs to be removed but we can all agree on that.


i started the game in cata, the argument that people who started the game later know less than people who played the game in wotlk/cata is easily the stupidest thing ive ever read - its something nagara would say, thats how fucking braindead it is

Thats funny cause you prove that claim literally every post you make.

Edited by Naraga, 14 August 2015 - 03:04 PM.

  • 0
S8 ele LSD glad S9 resto shamn glad Thunka

Druid utility is superior to shamans utility already

all the other healers should be buffed up to the point of having a way of not having to outplay 2 dps to survive

Thunka 2.0

disc is way way better than druid.






Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Shaman, totems, elemental, Enhancement, resto

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users