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Shadow BiS S17 thread


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#21 Jellypie

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:47 AM

What'd u say about Crafting Neck + Bracers with Versa/Mastery. I think these 2 could be better too.
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#22 Lolflay

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 04:36 PM

Here's an imgur album comparing the Cruelty Shoulders vs Legs along with Mastery vs Versatility enchants using AskMrRobot. The Buffed option is enabled as well. It's including raid buffs so the stats will be probably be higher than what you'll see in your character sheet. I used a non-human set up so it can be used for any race.
imgur com/a/qrjxx


Good stuff.

keep in mind this thread was made before the substantial mind flay buff as well which will benefit from haste


Both yes and no.

Mastery yields higher damage output per point when Mind Flay/Insanity are in question ( iirc, Mind Flay is 66% of spell power * mastery, while Spike is like, 90% of spell power * 1.4 * mastery ), while Haste makes it more "usable" ( it also scales the same until the point where you reach 1.0 casting time with Mind Spike, which doesn't really happen unless you're full haste and your weapon haste proc is up ). I was doing some number crunching and came to the conclusion that it's really not worth it - we still won't be able to do the old priority rotation reliably ( keep VT SWP up, MB on cooldown, Mindflay inbetween ). It's obviously open for discussion, I could definitely be wrong, but I just don't see which comp in their right mind wouldn't let you do Spike spam ( while using Blast on cooldown ), which is higher single target DPS, but would let you stand there and keep VT SWP and Mindflay 24/7 ( and that's STILL inferior damage ).

I've been searching for a reason to go yolo Haste/Versa combo, as it's really fun to have sickly quick globals, but it really does not seem better than Versa/Mastery, even with the Mind Flay buff in question, which should in theory make us want to Mind Flay a lot more.


Also, Surge of Darkness is still better than Insanity, unless you're fighting something that really doesn't touch you at all, and lets you get full Insanities off without even bothering to swap to you/interrupt you/CC you. Question is, WHAT COMP WOULD LET US DO THAT ? :D

What'd u say about Crafting Neck + Bracers with Versa/Mastery. I think these 2 could be better too.


Not worth it. The reason PvE rings are worth it over the PvP ones is because PvP rings don't grant a single secondary stat that we prefer ( well, except Haste, but Haste is inferior to Mastery and Versatility ), so trading a few points of stamina ( dead weight when it comes to ilvl ), and a few point of intellect for superior secondary stats, is actually a favorable trade.

No matter how you gear, your PvP neck and bracers will either have Mastery or Haste, making them pretty much better than anything you can craft, due to sheer amounts of stat points that are there due to higher ilvl.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#23 Lolflay

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 01:53 PM

So I've tested it ( Versa/Mastery build )

By simply keeping dots up, mindblasting/swding on CD, and otherwise filling with mind flay, it took me 16-18 seconds to kill a target without any sort of damage reduction ( besides the ordinary pvp stuff ), depending on crits.

By mind spiking + blasting/swding on CD, it took me 12-15 seconds to kill a target, depending if something crits.


It was averaging at 14 seconds for spikes+blast, while averaging at 17 seconds for dots+mindflay. Mind you, this was with no Devouring Plague, Insanity, and everything else. It was either keeping VT SWP, MBing when cooldown is off, SWDing when target is in SWD range, and Mindflaying otherwise ; or spamming Mindspike and doing the same with MB and SWD as with Mindflay variation.

- Versa/Mastery wins out in situations where you can't cast at all ( RMD training you 24/7, equals in MB/proc MS spam entire game )

- Versa/Haste PROBABLY wins out in situations where you're being trained but can indeed channel mind flay ( turbo for example, they're saving most of their interrupts for your mage/healer, while you only have to fake pummel ( if that ) ), but it doesn't win out BY MUCH, in fact I'd dare say both gearing styles are equal here

- Versa/Mastery wins out in situations where you're completely left alone.


If anyone is willing to chip in, I'd love to hear the opinions.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#24 Ratalol

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 10:13 PM

can you explain why you take on use + int/vers or int/mastery trinket over proc trinket + int/vers or int/mastery?
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#25 Lolflay

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 10:26 PM

Proc trinket is garbage for shadow because if it procs at the wrong time, you either try to use it ( force a go, perhaps in a situation where you're not comfortable ), or you act like nothing happened and still do your ordinary filler shit, except it's obviously a bit stronger but nothing that'll contribute or win you a game.

On use is better than proc simply because it's controllable - every 2nd go, you have a stronger nuke phase guaranteed, period.


If we were playing comps like shadowplay or similar comps where we spread dots 24/7 and try to maintain constant pressure, then proc would DEFINITELY be the best trinket, but considering we're only playing setup comps, on use is better. I obviously still spread dots and try to cause some aoe pressure even in godcomp when there's a downtime, but it's nothing significant that'll neccessarily win me the game.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#26 Dills

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 12:05 AM

Watch out world, DIllbadar is coming out once again
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the only hunter i approve of is dillypoo. the remainder of hunters' existence offends me to my core. when i wake up, i am troubled that in some parts of the world, there are other humans who still partake in slavery, sex trafficking, and hunter playing on world of warcraft


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did you ever get round to taking it? It's actually the best free site i've found :)

Gonna take that as you flopped hard and couldn't get near my score with repeated tries :)


#27 Friedkitteh

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Posted 03 September 2015 - 09:29 AM

Proc trinket is garbage for shadow because if it procs at the wrong time


I feel like with the ICD on the proc trinket you should be able to play around it proccing every major setup in Godcomp
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#28 Lolflay

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Posted 05 September 2015 - 08:06 PM

I feel like with the ICD on the proc trinket you should be able to play around it proccing every major setup in Godcomp


Didn't notice the post earlier.

Yeah, the proc trinket gives you more damage and more passive survivability compared to the on use, and you can argueably play around it ( especially if you have something like ExtraCD ), however when I did my calcs I took into account that even though the proc has ridiculously short ICD and its ridiculously strong, it's also bound to fail every now and then by any random unaccountable shit ( CC/target trinketting+running/proccing at the wrong time, etc ).

It's undoubtedly stronger than the on-use, but that's the trade off. On-use is predictable and solid, proc is "random" ( it does proc absurdly much, but ya ).

Dnno.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#29 stickyjam

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Posted 06 September 2015 - 08:39 PM

- Versa/Haste PROBABLY wins out in situations where you're being trained but can indeed channel mind flay ( turbo for example, they're saving most of their interrupts for your mage/healer, while you only have to fake pummel ( if that ) ), but it doesn't win out BY MUCH, in fact I'd dare say both gearing styles are equal here


If anyone is willing to chip in, I'd love to hear the opinions.


Key bit I think more than anything, majority of priests are going to be playing shatter.
How well you setup is going to be the crux of it over mastery/versas harder hitting MS/MB/SWD.
What the haste does bring you is easier to play playstyle, quicker MDs, quicker globals(mainly for dispel spam getting buffs) and just generally a more fluid feel. Though it is only 0.1-0.2 sec quicker globals/cast times

I feel in full epic haste/versa/mastery build(basically what people went for last season) has the damage needed for kills, so why not play haste to make life easier.

It's like how the haste proc always feels nice(unless cc'd), whereas really the mastery proc you're just hoping it procs as you burst for the big numbers(which would allow for kills with very little mage damage, but that's near enough possible without).

Though I noted Talbadar is running mastery proc / mastery enchants and insanity. Must be some sick numbers when the proc aligns with insanity usage, possible he was just testing it on dummy though.

Feel like I've just splattered some thoughts in a poorly constructed message now, again I'll end by saying how well you setup is going to matter way more than stat choice as no stat is that bad for priest in pvp really, even multi strike however rng it is multis on SWD/DP/MS/MB can change the game if the enemy is low.

Edited by stickyjam, 06 September 2015 - 08:44 PM.

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