Jump to content

Photo

Shadow BiS S17 thread


  • Please log in to reply
28 replies to this topic

#1 Lolflay

Lolflay
  • Premium Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Kor'gall
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 07 August 2015 - 09:25 AM

STAT PRIO : Mastery=Versatility > Haste >>>>>>> Crit&Multistrike >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirit


Head : Wild Gladiator's Satin Hood ( main set )

Neck : Wild Gladiator's Pendant of Cruelty ( Mastery ench )

Shoulders : Wild Gladiator's Mantle of Cruelty ( non-set )

Back : Wild Gladiator's Drape of Prowess ( Mastery ench )

Chest : Wild Gladiator's Satin Robe ( main set )

Bracers : Wild Gladiator's Cuffs of Prowess

Gloves : Wild Gladiator's Satin Gloves ( main set )

Belt : Wild Gladiator's Cord of Victory

Pants : Wild Gladiator's Satin Leggings ( main set )

Boots : Wild Gladiator's Treads of Cruelty

Ring 1 : Whispering Taladite Ring of the Harmonious ( stage 6/6, Mastery ench )

Ring 2 : Spellbound Runic Band of the All-Seeing Eye OR Nithramus, the All-Seer ( important thing is that the ring is 715+ , Mastery ench )

Trinket 1 : Wild Gladiator's Badge of Dominance

Trinket 2 : IF YOU ARE HUMAN, you want Wild Gladiator's Accolade trinket ( either Int+Vers or Int+Mastery - int/vers gives you better survivability and overall damage, as it increases everything you do, while int/mastery grants you more damage via Blasts/Spikes/Flay(Insanity) - I myself prefer Versatility, I like being able to control my own survival a bit more ); IF YOU AREN'T HUMAN, you obviously want to use the PvP insignia with Versatility

Weapons : either mainhand+offhand combo with crit/mastery, or a staff if you really don't care about transmog ; as for enchant, Mastery and Haste are both good. Pick what you prefer.


REASONING BEHIND RINGS :

We are okay with Haste, but we really want Versa+Mastery. So when the itemization options we're presented by Blizz are Crit+Haste, Haste+Multistrike and Haste+Spirit, we obviously want the superior secondary stats.

Compare for example, Wild Gladiator's Band of Cruelty with Whispering Taladite Ring of the Harmonious - you lose 46 stamina and 21 intellect, you get rid of two stats you don't really like, and you gain two superior stats. Same goes for the Legendary ring at any stage that's 715+ iLvL, it's simply better than PvP trash rings we're offered.

General rule of thumb for us - if the item doesn't at least have either mastery or versatility, you want to change it, and a few ilvls below is no concern ( don't go below 15 though ).


Input is obviously welcome.
  • 2

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#2 Tsx

Tsx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Tirion
  • Vengeance / Rache
  • Posts: 1,907
  • Talents: Arcane 1/0/2/2/0/2/2
  • 3v3: 2284
  • RBG: 192

Posted 07 August 2015 - 09:45 AM

why not versa mastery pants instead of versa mastery shoulders and versa mastery belt instead of multistrike haste ?
  • 0

#3 Lolflay

Lolflay
  • Premium Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Kor'gall
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 07 August 2015 - 10:03 AM

Accidentally wrote Cruelty instead of Victory for belt, good catch. I meant the Versa Mastery belt.

As for Shoulders/Pants dillemma, I thought of it. But the thing is, with main set pants you at least get ONE beneficiary stat, with main set shoulders you get absolutely shit stats that you're trying to avoid in the first place. Obviously with pants option you'd recieve MORE of the SPECIFIC stats you want, but with shoulders option you gain more stats in general.
  • 0

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#4 Tsx

Tsx
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Tirion
  • Vengeance / Rache
  • Posts: 1,907
  • Talents: Arcane 1/0/2/2/0/2/2
  • 3v3: 2284
  • RBG: 192

Posted 07 August 2015 - 10:08 AM

alright fair enough.
  • 0

#5 Dafuq

Dafuq
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 45
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/1/1/2/1/.
  • 2v2: 1601
  • 3v3: 2482
  • 5v5: 2369
  • RBG: 1649

Posted 07 August 2015 - 12:48 PM

Does the stage 1/6 ring (640 ilvl) scale up in pvp ?

Edit: it does.

Edited by Dafuq, 07 August 2015 - 02:01 PM.

  • 0

#6 Lolflay

Lolflay
  • Premium Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Kor'gall
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 07 August 2015 - 02:01 PM

Does the stage 1/6 ring (640 ilvl) scale up in pvp ?

Edit: it does.


Yeah it scales, however it's worse than green/blue Wild rings iirc ?
  • 0

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#7 relegladhero

relegladhero
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Blackmoore
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 130
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1564
  • LocationGermany

Posted 09 August 2015 - 06:07 AM

One thing to add and take into consideration when comparing items though is that most items have one stat that the item is focused on and one "neglected" stat. This is especially important when thinking about including pve items and comparing them to your other options

(not really related to your bis list, there's nothing to critizise about that :P just thought i might add this for people that are thinking about different gear)
  • 0
Who the fuck is Enrico?

#8 Kelberot

Kelberot
  • Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1,447
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/1/1/2/1
  • 2v2: 1663
  • 3v3: 1992
  • 5v5: 959
  • RBG: 576
  • LocationRio de Janeiro

Posted 09 August 2015 - 09:17 AM

woah what the hell I didn't know this ring existed, just made one with like 18k gold lol

gg legendary ring + jc ring, thanks for the tip!

just wondering since you're a big fan of versatility, shouldn't you want the bracers with crit/versa instead of crit/mastery?
  • 0
Posted Image

#9 Lolflay

Lolflay
  • Premium Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Kor'gall
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 09 August 2015 - 06:39 PM

It feels "right" having bracers with Mastery over Versa. I value Mastery as much as I value Versatility, but in that case, Mastery bracers give you more damage than the Versa ones.
  • 0

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#10 ojonttu

ojonttu
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Emeriss
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 1
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/0/1/0/2/0
  • 2v2: 1813
  • 3v3: 1761
  • RBG: 956

Posted 18 August 2015 - 07:22 PM

Spriest on top EU ladder seem to be using Haste+multistrike weapons instead of crit mastery. Whats the reasoning behind this? Whats your opinion lolflay?
  • 0

#11 relegladhero

relegladhero
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Blackmoore
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 130
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1564
  • LocationGermany

Posted 18 August 2015 - 08:16 PM

Spriest on top EU ladder seem to be using Haste+multistrike weapons instead of crit mastery. Whats the reasoning behind this? Whats your opinion lolflay?


Good player=/=Good theorycrafter.

People can get high rating with a horrible gear setup when they're good players or play something overpowered.
  • 2
Who the fuck is Enrico?

#12 Lolflay

Lolflay
  • Premium Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Kor'gall
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 18 August 2015 - 08:52 PM

Spriest on top EU ladder seem to be using Haste+multistrike weapons instead of crit mastery. Whats the reasoning behind this? Whats your opinion lolflay?


You can gear in three possible ways currently.

1st best : Mastery/Versatility ( most instant damage, most damage from MB/MS ( two damaging spells you use by far the most, excluding the dots ), survivability )

2nd best : Haste/Versatility ( gives you a bit faster casts and a shorter MB cooldown, survivability )

3rd best : Mastery/Haste ( don't bother, versa too good )


Right now, the only casted spell you really need to cast is Vampiric Touch. Like, that's LITERALLY the only casted spell you REALLY need to cast in arena when it comes to your actual "I'M GOING FOR A KILL" rotation. Mind Flay is channeled, therefore you get value out of it even if you need to stop and fakecast mid-cast, therefore it's not a huge priority. Mind Spike is good obviously.

So if the only casted spell you need to cast is Vampiric Touch, and the haste gained from going for haste yields miniscule cd reduction on Mind Blast, it ends up being a bit of bonus damage on SWP VT DP and Mind Flay. SWP VT and Mindflay are a minor part of your arena damage ( obviously doesn't mean it's an IGNORABLE part of your damage ). That leaves us with DP, which doesn't really need any boost in its damage.

On the other hand, Mind Blast is the huge majority of your damage in arena, so it makes sense to gear to make the two instant ( basically instant since MS procs like crazy ) spells hit harder. It also makes sense to gear for Versatility, because its value is really high when stacked, and outperforms stats like haste, crit, multistrike, etc.

Also, when you're going Mastery, in the case you're not being trained/interrupted, doing the PVE rotation without the dot weaving part ( so only doing Spike Spike Blast Spike Spike Blast etc ) is higher damage than having VT SWP, using MB on CD and channeling Mind Flay into the target as a filler.

In the playstyle where majority of your damage is instant, it makes zero point to gear haste for a lower MB CD ( was it a 0.2 sec reduction or something when I've tested it ? Something along those lines, and not to mention that it actually loses value if you're being CC'd in any way or form, because for it to be truly effective, you'd have to be able to use it on cooldown ), and it makes zero point to gear for an obsolete playstyle ( VT SWP Mindflaying Mindblasting as a filler inbetween Horror cooldowns ).


TL;DR - neither gearing style is wrong, but if you want to get the most juice out of your character, gear Mastery/Versatility. If you're not being trained, and the enemies are presenting themselves to you ( a rarity ), whenever you're in the phase where you're between Horror cooldowns, off-dot the 2nd DPS and spam Blast on cooldown and Spikes otherwise into the 1st DPS for a higher effective damage than dotting that target as well and Mindflaying it; if you're being trained, you wouldn't get much value out of haste anyway, and this way your MB and instant MS hits way harder. ( if the DPS you want to Mindspike is in position of running away at any given time, it's better to dot it and Mindflay it )


I almost forgot to mention - if you plan on playing Shadowplay in any sort of form ( Shadowpriest/Affliction/healer ), Haste/Versatility is BY FAR the best setup combo to aim for, since you'll actually be casting 24/7 - you want DOTS up on all 3 targets, that's a significant GCD expenditure/20 sec. If you're playing Shatter, Mastery and Versa is the best.


Also, I noticed a familiar name pop up on the ladders some time ago : http://us.battle.net.../Talby/advanced

Mastery and Versatility are both equally good once Versatility reaches higher amounts of budget on gear ( IN TERMS OF DAMAGE ), therefore it becomes a preference at that point when it comes to enchanting ( more damage ? more survivability ? ), and the shoulder/pants dillemma in his case was him deciding he wanted to forego extra bit of stats that are actually useable ( haste on set pants as opposed to crit multistrike on shoulders ) in favor of more versa/mastery, but he's probably the best Shadowpriest to follow in terms of gearing if you don't want to be as anal and detailed as I am.

I've no idea how much time he spent figuring it out, but the same way that for Warlocks Wallirikz will be the best example of a properly figured out gear setup, Talbadar will be the best example for Shadowpriests ( if you already don't take my word for it ). That guy ALWAYS went for cheesy shit, I remember he had 15 different sets just for dueling alone.
  • 3

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#13 Lolflay

Lolflay
  • Premium Junkies
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Kor'gall
  • Cruelty / Crueldad
  • Posts: 7,912
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 18 August 2015 - 08:59 PM

Hope that clears up everything for everyone ! :'D
  • 0

[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#14 Bobisadrummer

Bobisadrummer
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Executus
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 1
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/1/1/0/0/2
  • 3v3: 1187

Posted 24 August 2015 - 04:59 PM

Here's an imgur album comparing the Cruelty Shoulders vs Legs along with Mastery vs Versatility enchants using AskMrRobot. The Buffed option is enabled as well. It's including raid buffs so the stats will be probably be higher than what you'll see in your character sheet. I used a non-human set up so it can be used for any race.
imgur com/a/qrjxx
  • 0

#15 Cenobite

Cenobite
  • Members
  • Posts: 46

Posted 27 August 2015 - 01:14 AM

Nice thread, i was wondering with the upcoming nerfs to some shadow spells as well as the buff to Mind Flay, will it be better to use Insanity than Surge of Darkness?
  • 0

#16 Jako_Binsey

Jako_Binsey
  • Members
  • Posts: 88
  • Locationgermany

Posted 27 August 2015 - 01:25 AM

I guess not in3s. Mind flay can be interrupted+ dp or disarm can be dispelled so insanity is gone.
But is viable against some coms in 2s. Insanity is big fun there and huge burst
  • 0

#17 Seu

Seu
  • Junkies
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1,690
  • Talents: Discipline

Posted 27 August 2015 - 01:35 AM

keep in mind this thread was made before the substantial mind flay buff as well which will benefit from haste
  • 0

#18 Dafuq

Dafuq
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 45
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/1/1/2/1/.
  • 2v2: 1601
  • 3v3: 2482
  • 5v5: 2369
  • RBG: 1649

Posted 27 August 2015 - 06:48 AM

I guess not in3s. Mind flay can be interrupted+ dp or disarm can be dispelled so insanity is gone.
But is viable against some coms in 2s. Insanity is big fun there and huge burst


That's not true. Insanity is a buff now ^^
  • 0

#19 relegladhero

relegladhero
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • EU-Blackmoore
  • Glutsturm / Emberstorm
  • Posts: 130
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/2/2
  • 2v2: 1564
  • LocationGermany

Posted 27 August 2015 - 07:44 AM

That's not true. Insanity is a buff now ^^


Just in case someone misunderstands this post: What he meant was that when Insanity procs, it gives you a buff that increases damage (aka it can't be stopped by dispelling DP/Horror), not that Insanity was a "buff" aka improvement over the other talents. Surge is still better
  • 0
Who the fuck is Enrico?

#20 Dafuq

Dafuq
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 45
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/1/1/2/1/.
  • 2v2: 1601
  • 3v3: 2482
  • 5v5: 2369
  • RBG: 1649

Posted 27 August 2015 - 08:14 AM

Just in case someone misunderstands this post: What he meant was that when Insanity procs, it gives you a buff that increases damage (aka it can't be stopped by dispelling DP/Horror), not that Insanity was a "buff" aka improvement over the other talents. Surge is still better


Yeah :P
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<