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Ret PvP

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#21 Celinedijon

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 08:04 AM

making the only real option more versatile so rets can finally play with more classes sounds op to you?


I was thinking about holy, forgot the thread was about ret for a sec.
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#22 Milaxoxo

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Posted 28 July 2015 - 11:00 AM

just give repentence back
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#23 Treta

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Posted 08 August 2015 - 12:07 AM

Awesome post, gave a few ideas of mine :)

Maybe ASHBRINGER will fix it?
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#24 Hofflerand

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 01:20 AM


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#25 Avengelyne

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 01:29 AM

Tweeted that out.

I like the Might + Kings in 1 button idea. Makes no sense why most other dps classes get 3 buffs.

Edited by Avengelyne, 09 August 2015 - 01:33 AM.

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http://www.twitch.tv/avengtv -- Follow for Ret 3v3 Arenas on Live and Beta!


I prefer combat because my dong is large and I will face the enemy like a man rather than sprint over to a pillar for a re after my opener is up.


sorry, I don't speak duellist


#26 smellfungus

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Posted 09 August 2015 - 01:57 AM

Maybe in Legion they will just make ret paladin a ranged class and give it a libram.
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#27 Garrockz

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 12:39 PM

really good read Avenge.

Ive actually been playing ret since the end of vanilla but i kind of skipped it for MoP and WoD as the general class design aint any fun to me anymore. I actually was a sworn ret-player, dunno if any of you played ret through BC and tried to get a raiding guild? Singing the song of my people...

But somehow blizz managed to fuck up a class entirely, which was actually always an underdog, but also always really fun to play nevertheless!

I dont like Seal of Truths mechanic and i also dont like Hand of Light, ofc PvE doodz want RNG completely removed from the game, but to be honest, the old Seal of Command and the guaranteed Judgment crits on stunned targets where the best feeling abilities/side effects, rets ever had.

Aside from the pvp balancing issues, id really recommend Blizz to rework the ret mastery. And its seals. It should feel like the seal really has a huge impact on how our overall damage looks, just compare old Seal of Blood with Seal of Command, both felt good and viable. but even though totally different.

And instead of Hand of Light, maybe just add a flat "increases all Holy Damage done by XY%".

This would clear up our damage output so much. Heck ret feels better on low levels because youre actually able to see your crits, and not have them hid betweens dozens of SoT dot ticks / on hit procs and Hand of Light Add-Damage. Clean that shit up blizz.



Oh yeah, and just scrap exorzism and make Judgement damage important again please. Maybe even put the Art of War mechanic onto Judgment to allow us for more rng based agility in Arenas f.e. ?
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#28 Kizume

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 03:00 PM

Had a good read there,

here is what I think is wrong with Ret currently:
Ret has too many different approaches to the spec

1) CD Stacking - Wings Holy Avenger Trinket(s)
2) Mastery (which was probably introduced to balance Rets more easily in PvE)
3) Combo Point System

1)
IMO the devs have alaways had a problem with Ret. Just because it is broken for casual players. Stacking cooldowns prior to WoD almost always resulted in an instant win at lower ratings. Now the king of the Cooldowns is Feral.

2)
Personaly I like the Ret mastery, however I feel like it could be implemented in a better way.
Instead of doing additional holy damage, it could just ramp up the damage from our spells in general. So in your combat log it would look like
Crusader Strike 10k

instead of

Hand of Light 7k
Crusader Strike 3k

3)
I don't even know why they implemented it in the first place. I mean if you PvE it feels pretty smooth with the right talents but overall I think it did cause more harm than solve problems.
Holy Power generators are not allowed to deal high damage because on the one hand they are meant to "build up" damage and on the other hand they could turn out to be deadly with CDs up (20% Wings and 30% Holy Avenger)
Templars Verdict cannot deal too much damage either because Holy Power generation can at times be too high.
Hammer of Wrath also cannot deal too much damage because it`s tied into Avenging Wrath and also scales with Holy Avenger.

What we get is a bunch of filler spells that sometimes hit hard when they crit, otherwise they are easily neglectable


Looking into Ret and defensive I don't even know where to begin.
I think it is save to say that since Wrath of the Lich King spam purging is the way to go Meta.
Problem is almost every Paladin spell is dispelable or has another work around. The only thing that is not dispelable is their Shieldwall which is basicly useless against Melee (even with glyph).
I am not saying you should turn every Paladin defensive cooldown into an undispelable one but there has to be atleast a better protection or other fall back mechanic to get Rets back on track.
People tend to tell me that Ret healing is off the charts. That is not true at all. Rets sacrifice almost all their damage for those healing numbers on the scoreboard after every arena match. A lot of that healing often comes from EMP Seals which is a pain to play with (even less damage than FV).

Speaking of Shieldwall. I think at least after Vanguards VoDs everyone noticed that Ret defensive is the worst in the game. It feels so humiliating dying against a wizard cleave that doesn't even have to land CC to kill you through 40% Shieldwall Pet Sacrifice 15% damage reduce from Versatility and Execution Sentence healing.

but hopefully
#AshbringerWillFixIt
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#29 Garrockz

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 07:43 AM

Holy Avenger should be removed from the game anyway. A Glascannon build for a plate class which has always had its place in the lore as some kind of protector for the weak is just wrong. I srsly hope ths way our damage looks gets cleaned up a bit and that Holinka follows his words and nerfs burst and buffs consistent dps. Would add so much viability for rets. And i wouldnt say our heal is op, but it doesnt need a buff either.
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#30 Fakalock

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 08:18 AM

I dont realy play ret myself. Last time i played on my ret was in wrath.

Anyhow, loads of people complain about warlocks (wich I am sence vanilla as main) and to be honest, ret are the easiest target there is... The main reason for this is the wings.. If u see wings as a lock u drop everything there is and just start to kite/fear him.. Use SS port, use gate, sf and so on. Once u are out of kiting abilities then so are the wings and u can go back to just spreading dots again cause all of the danger is over.. So for me to accualy be scared of a ret would requier the way they do dmg to be changed. They need more consistent dmg and a bit less dmg put into one major cd. If a ret pairs with a BM i'd be a little scared cause they can oneshot me in a silence on my healer if im not fast enought to port out of harms way. But Thats it.

Thats just my point of view and im no pro so i might not be the one to come up with good ideas for other classes but atleast thats what i think would make ret better vs locks. Taken from the locks perspective atleast.
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