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There is a 10% overall healing reduce affecting PvP

battle fatigue resilience

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#1 ProdeGaming

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 10:48 AM

Which could always be told, for specific numbers. As you can see, Battle Fatigue has no direct effect on the PvP values. Why is that? Because even tho it has earned a general hatred among players, Battle Fatigue is nothing but a difference between PvE and PvP numbers. Any number can be compared to another, it shows their difference and nothing beyond, so there is little to nothing that could be subject to hate.

The method:

Number1 / Number2 = %difference

PvP/PvE = % difference ---> PvP = PvE * %difference (battle fatigue)


Posted Image


So why hate Battle Fatigue? The problem is not necessarily evident, because once players hear there has been an overall change made, since it's hated, they rush to confirm. To do that, it seems a practical, if the overall change has supposedly only been dealt to PvP, just check how much it differs now from PvE.

The real problem emerges, if you convert the method into a general form. To confirm the statement that an overall change has been made, what the method truly does is:

Current value = Past value * %change

The formula uses 'past value', which is very much concerning, since begs for the question: How do you know what the value was in the past? It would need time travel to have a trustworthy result out of this method.

The way players use the formula, is that they simply replace the 'past' with PvE. It works, sometimes. But is very far from a reliable process.
Because PvE can change on its own, despite having similarities, for example it can increase the overall dmg in itself to infinity, simply offsetting the increase by higher boss HP. So it can cause a difference, as such, a 'Resilience' without affecting PvP at all.

Basically, the statement of having 10% Battle Fatigue/Resilience holds the information of 'These PvP spells are 10% different than their PvE versions.'




Which may leave questions such as, what Battle Fatigue/Resilience does unanswered.

It is used to keep overall good balance between HP - DPS - HPS. For that I made a calculation process example including Battle Fatigue along with other possible methods.

The example is for an overall too high HPS case, with having an outlier too low spell.
http://i.imgur.com/6Pigu4f.png

Edited by ProdeGaming, 01 July 2015 - 10:50 AM.

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#2 Pouncedd

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 11:37 AM

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#3 Nexxer

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 11:43 AM

You literally have a battle fatigue fetish, don't you?
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#4 ProdeGaming

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 12:34 PM

You literally have a battle fatigue fetish, don't you?

Maybe, but at least I don't run to PvE to check the PvP balance forecast.


The simple process of it is similar to: Omg, can it be true? LOOK IT'S TRUE, THERE IT IS!

There is what? Since PvE could've caused the difference, if the intentions are to remove Resilience or Battle Fatigue by finding it, it is a justification to overall increase dmg or healing for PvP, based on that there are different numbers in PvE than PvP, so practically based on nothing relevant.
Since for example, it leaves players exposed solely to Blizzard's good will, since if players rush to remove Resilience or Battle Fatigue by simply finding it, they could just keep increasing dmg and healing in PvE, by changing boss HP and boss dmg to give players Resilience/Battle Fatigue to find. So making PvP players justify buffing themselves to infinity or wherever they wish with overall dmg and healing, without any reasons given.



Not really ashamed not believing the Earth is flat./Not trying to shoot Nessy whenever I'm shown a picture of her.


EDIT: (possibly interesting) This power of Blizzard originating from players' foolishness is a great but also a very risky tool for them. For example, since it is in fact based on leading players by their nose without any explanation, their overall dmg and healing changes can mathematically, easily be proven wrong, for example doing the exact opposite of the supposed intentions of reducing CC and burst in PvP.

Basically getting mathematically proven wrong by a random WoW player using 5th grade math, which is enough reason to fire Holinka that instant.

For example, there have been statements and changes made involving Holinka and Ion Hazzikostas, that can be mathematically be proven to work toward the exact opposites, being pure evidence of incompetence.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 02 July 2015 - 09:12 AM.

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#5 Fizion

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 12:45 PM

I'm more interested in the -400 MMR stealth nerf/reset...
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#6 Beargryllsx

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 01:40 PM

why don't you invest your obvious scientific and mathematical prowess into something more usefull and interesting?
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#7 ProdeGaming

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 01:48 PM

why don't you invest your obvious scientific and mathematical prowess into something more usefull and interesting?

Because the game provides fun for me, as such is useful and interesting for me just like for millions of other players. Investing primitive mathematical explanations in it is not a big sacrifice to make it better.


Also, it's good to see Holinka and Ion Hazzikostas piss themselves as I get closer to explain players that Battle Fatigue and Resilience are no ghosts to bust. Is all I need to get them both fired.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 01 July 2015 - 02:07 PM.

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#8 Lightningx

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 01:49 PM

Which could always be told, for specific numbers. As you can see, Battle Fatigue has no direct effect on the PvP values. Why is that? Because even tho it has earned a general hatred among players, Battle Fatigue is nothing but a difference between PvE and PvP numbers. Any number can be compared to another, it shows their difference and nothing beyond, so there is little to nothing that could be subject to hate.

The method:

Number1 / Number2 = %difference

PvP/PvE = % difference ---> PvP = PvE * %difference (battle fatigue)


Posted Image


So why hate Battle Fatigue? The problem is not necessarily evident, because once players hear there has been an overall change made, since it's hated, they rush to confirm. To do that, it seems a practical, if the overall change has supposedly only been dealt to PvP, just check how much it differs now from PvE.

The real problem emerges, if you convert the method into a general form. To confirm the statement that an overall change has been made, what the method truly does is:

Current value = Past value * %change

The formula uses 'past value', which is very much concerning, since begs for the question: How do you know what the value was in the past? It would need time travel to have a trustworthy result out of this method.

The way players use the formula, is that they simply replace the 'past' with PvE. It works, sometimes. But is very far from a reliable process.
Because PvE can change on its own, despite having similarities, for example it can increase the overall dmg in itself to infinity, simply offsetting the increase by higher boss HP. So it can cause a difference, as such, a 'Resilience' without affecting PvP at all.

Basically, the statement of having 10% Battle Fatigue/Resilience holds the information of 'These PvP spells are 10% different than their PvE versions.'




Which may leave questions such as, what Battle Fatigue/Resilience does unanswered.

It is used to keep overall good balance between HP - DPS - HPS. For that I made a calculation process example including Battle Fatigue along with other possible methods.

The example is for an overall too high HPS case, with having an outlier too low spell.


Posted Image
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#9 Lloix

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 02:06 PM

Damn droon you got me again.
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#10 Siuox

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 02:23 PM

I'm more interested in the -400 MMR stealth nerf/reset...


inflation is gone
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#11 stalebagel

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 11:10 PM

droon is honestly the best troll on this website 10/10 buddy
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#12 Stako

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Posted 01 July 2015 - 11:26 PM

This is one of the most difficult posts I've read on Arena Junkies. And not because it's too sophisticated. I have no idea what's going on here.
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#13 ProdeGaming

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 02:05 AM

This is one of the most difficult posts I've read on Arena Junkies. And not because it's too sophisticated. I have no idea what's going on here.

One of the points of the thread could be summed by the problem of changing an average consisting of many different numbers.



Example task:

1000 different numbers
Their average is 9.2, which is too high, need to reduce it to 3.

How do you do it?



The problem of players that they state, that an overall change may not be made to do this. But it is the only reasonable mathematical way, multiply the whole thing by 0.33. So change them by an overall change of -67%. If someone understands that, you can replace the average with overall DPS, or HPS. It is why developers use overall changes.
If an overall change is made, it is made due to nothing else but to change the DPS compared to HP or HPS compared to DPS, nothing else is relevant to examine regarding overall changes.

Bottom line, if overall changes are not allowed to make, the HP-DPS-HPS balance is going to be horrible. And yes you can log in right now, check overall DPS and HPS, they are in fact horribly 'balanced'. Not a surprise that game is terrible as a result.

It is Blizzard's strongest weapon against players, that players don't seem to understand what overall changes are for. So since they don't see what to look for when an overall change is in question, Blizzard doesn't need to give an explanation or just lie, because players won't notice what they lied about.
But also, it could be the players' strongest weapon, since Blizzard has already abused this, it is done. Feeding blatant lies to players, simply covered by nothing but the not knowing of the masses, or not even getting questioned at all, since ask about what? Players don't know what to ask for, don't know what numbers are relevant.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 02 July 2015 - 02:47 AM.

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#14 Forumz

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:14 AM

Ok so is or is there not?

Because you are just babbling.

Almost certain you're trolling.
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#15 ProdeGaming

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:16 AM

Ok so is or is there not?

Because you are just babbling.

Almost certain you're trolling.

Could you elaborate why do you want to find out? I'd like to know the logic why is it so important if there is a difference between PvE and PvP numbers or not. Probably has much to do with PvP balance.

Resilience and Battle Fatigue are simply difference %. A number can have difference from another number, yes. But why compare to PvE? What conclusion do you want to draw from the difference you find between 2 numbers that have nothing to do with each other.
Just because you can walk into the WoW PvE, that doesn't mean it's the exact same game and has an effect on PvP. PvE is basically as much of a concern as comparing PvP numbers to Wildstar numbers.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 02 July 2015 - 09:21 AM.

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#16 Unkk

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:19 AM

I have no idea what this thread is about. I understand nothing.
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#17 ProdeGaming

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:33 AM

I have no idea what this thread is about. I understand nothing.

Simply put, it's sry but foolish to rush to check and remove every Resilience and Battle Fatigue you find. Because Blizzard can abuse this, and can always make Res and BF for you to find, by only changing PvE, leaving PvP the same.

So if you keep removing, you just keep asking for overall changes for PvP, based on nothing at all. For example, they can make Resilience for you to find by buffing boss HP and PvE dmg. It makes a difference between PvP and PvE dmges, and that is what Resilience is. It's just a difference of 2 numbers, and that difference can be modified by changing any of those 2 numbers, so not just PvP. Enough if they change PvE.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 02 July 2015 - 09:35 AM.

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#18 Arteqt

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:49 AM

I see your point but what I don't get is, why do I need to time travel to compare today to past ? There are shitload of data lying on the webs.
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#19 ProdeGaming

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 09:53 AM

I see your point but what I don't get is, why do I need to time travel to compare today to past ? There are shitload of data lying on the webs.

Why yes, if you can find it somewhere, you can compare. But by default, the change still happened in the past, so potentially, there can be changes made you can never find out.

But if you can't find out, then it must be pointless to look for it. Something that is not 100% reliable cannot be important, and it is not in fact. I mean, there rly isn't anything to draw conclusion of.

Say, what can you do if you find out that the 100 you see now, is not 100, but 100=120*83% ? Nothing. It's still 100 now and that is what matters. You could just break a number into infinite pieces with that form anyway, so why not just do it for yourself. Why even find, if you can just make it yourself. But it's just, good for nothing rly.

Basically, if you can't do something with the information that you have a number of 100 now, you won't be able even if you have 120*83%=100 either. As a result, better start thinking about what is that 100 good for instead, ofc that was just similar example.

Edited by ProdeGaming, 02 July 2015 - 10:01 AM.

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#20 Ysteria

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 02:00 PM

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