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help with heavy purge teams?


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#1 jumpypuppet

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 03:39 PM

for a while now i've been able to deal with it by taking zen sphere, constantly reapplying renewing, and making sure both of those are up when i enveloping. but lately a few teams (typically those with a shaman or a hunter+priest) seem to have this uncanny ability to strip my enveloping within ~3 seconds of its application.

this is a problem not necessarily because i lack for direct healing, but because actually using those direct heals totally fucks my mp. i really rely on the combination of expel/renewing (for the cheap chi) and enveloping (because it's free) to keep my mana costs down. and of course when i or someone on my team is getting bursted hard it's nice to have the hot + mini-sac backing me up.

i honestly can't think of what else to do besides buffering my enveloping with other hots, which is what i'm already doing, and which isn't working. zen sphere doesn't provide nearly as much dispel protection via direct healing as something like lifebloom, on top of the fact it has a cooldown. and, also unlike druids, i simply don't have enough buffs to flood someone with "decoy" purge targets.

is it mostly on my partners to sufficiently dis-incentivize the person able to spam purges from doing so? ie to really lay into the enhance, so he has to retreat or heal himself, or the same with a priest?

anyone have advice on this? thanks
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#2 Creptius

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:34 PM

Try running chi explosion, using it at 4 chi and detonating your spheres. The direct healing from it is pretty good and the 8 spheres healing at once is nice too.
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#3 jumpypuppet

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:48 PM

i will, thanks. i have been afraid to mess with chi ex so far, although i've wanted to -- just really used to the rhythm of generating chi using renewing at this point.
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#4 Filthpig

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Posted 09 April 2015 - 04:54 PM

Depending on the comp you're playing you can ask your partners to keep rebuffing to try and help protect your envelopings. The mana situation is pretty bad for monk right now due to the mana tea nerf so you're going to oom faster than other healers regardless. Blizzard still needs to strike a balance between never ooming in mop and ooming super fast in WoD.
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#5 jumpypuppet

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Posted 10 April 2015 - 03:10 PM

i actually have been able to keep my mana steady in the majority of matches, mostly by healing almost entirely via soothing/enveloping, and never using surging unless it's absolutely necessary. what ruins me is either consistent spread pressure (usually owing to an affli) and super heavy burst, either on myself or a teammate, which gives me no choice but to use surging if i want to keep them up. i do think it's true that we're very inefficient overall following the tea changes, but also that it's something we can learn to deal with. IMO the bigger issue is the speed with which we can completely blow a carefully built lead. when burst healing is needed we spew mana like a fucking firehose. it's way too common that i manage to keep someone alive through coordinated burst, only to glance at my mp and realize that i've dropped from 90+% to below half in an instant. you could probably say that both are symptomatic of the same larger problem.

re: chi ex vs. purge teams, i finally worked up the nerve to test it at length last night, and while i had chalked this up to a gear thing when i used chiex previously, i was disappointed to find that even at full 660 the healing seemed pretty pathetic. i expected more from an ability that requires a hard cast and is supposed to be our big burst heal, yet my 4 chi explosions don't seem much more powerful than an average surging. is it just that i need to make better use of the second part of the combo, ie detonating the spheres i create with explosion? in my experience detonate doesn't do much at all. maybe if i move in really close to my teammate, enough for the both of us to be within explosion range? not sure. anyone have thoughts on this?
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#6 KaiDASH

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 08:54 AM

re: chi ex vs. purge teams, i finally worked up the nerve to test it at length last night, and while i had chalked this up to a gear thing when i used chiex previously, i was disappointed to find that even at full 660 the healing seemed pretty pathetic. i expected more from an ability that requires a hard cast and is supposed to be our big burst heal, yet my 4 chi explosions don't seem much more powerful than an average surging. is it just that i need to make better use of the second part of the combo, ie detonating the spheres i create with explosion? in my experience detonate doesn't do much at all. maybe if i move in really close to my teammate, enough for the both of us to be within explosion range? not sure. anyone have thoughts on this?


You can chiex while using Soothing.

The chiex heal is a meteor effect, so it's split between any allies within 8 yards of your target. This makes it pretty bad for healing melee cleaves as it's almost always going to meteor and only heal for 50% on the target that needs healing.

It's very powerful if you can get the entire thing on one person but this isn't always possible. I find it's also good in situations where I'm capped on chi but can't use Enveloping because it doesn't heal upon application, like healing a low hp ally vs a warrior.
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#7 dekonig

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Posted 13 April 2015 - 09:29 PM

Chi ex feels really trash. You should still try to use enveloping majority of the time and save ChiEx for when you really can't afford to have your enveloping dispelled. Losing pool of mists makes MW healing feel very clunky as well.

imo they should bring back the MoP soothing mist that generated chi. Generate chi slowly when you want to be mana efficient, but generate chi quickly with surging at the cost of efficiency. it would really help to reduce the surging mist spamming that MW has to do the moment HP starts falling behind.
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#8 Railander

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Posted 29 April 2015 - 11:06 PM

Chi ex feels really trash. You should still try to use enveloping majority of the time and save ChiEx for when you really can't afford to have your enveloping dispelled. Losing pool of mists makes MW healing feel very clunky as well.

imo they should bring back the MoP soothing mist that generated chi. Generate chi slowly when you want to be mana efficient, but generate chi quickly with surging at the cost of efficiency. it would really help to reduce the surging mist spamming that MW has to do the moment HP starts falling behind.

actually using surging mists as opposed to not is actually good gameplay IMO.
the problem is the chi spender doesn't stack properly if you're spamming surging because you're building chi faster than envelop can consume, clipping the HoT.
i think enveloping should just stack like ignite. it feels very clunky to wait to spend your chi until enveloping has 2 sec remaining or less.
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#9 Celaurthor

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 07:41 AM

actually using surging mists as opposed to not is actually good gameplay IMO.
the problem is the chi spender doesn't stack properly if you're spamming surging because you're building chi faster than envelop can consume, clipping the HoT.
i think enveloping should just stack like ignite. it feels very clunky to wait to spend your chi until enveloping has 2 sec remaining or less.

His original complaint was dealing with purge teams. So having to stand there 100% and channel to efficiently get an average burst heal off and have the only real throughput instapurged because of minimal dispel protection is pretty poor for game play. The removal of dematerialize and orbs should have brought a much bigger overhaul to the class than what they gave us. Mw is strong in certain setups against against okay comps but just utter garbage against anything t1 atm.
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#10 Railander

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 04:22 PM

His original complaint was dealing with purge teams. So having to stand there 100% and channel to efficiently get an average burst heal off and have the only real throughput instapurged because of minimal dispel protection is pretty poor for game play. The removal of dematerialize and orbs should have brought a much bigger overhaul to the class than what they gave us. Mw is strong in certain setups against against okay comps but just utter garbage against anything t1 atm.

i agree with that. i think i could've made my post more clear.
i was referring to his position on mw gameplay. i think casting surging is good gameplay, on the other hand not being able to spam it and spend all your chi on enveloping is clunky. what i was saying was unrelated to dispel protection.
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#11 Abidalzim

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Posted 02 May 2015 - 04:44 PM

Depending on the comp and map I could sometimes use glyph of renewed tea to keep my mana up (for example in turbo mirrors). Might be worth a try.

http://www.wowhead.c...-of-renewed-tea
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#12 Primius

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Posted 05 May 2015 - 04:51 AM

I am not even fully geared yet but I can burst for 200k with rng with chi explosion. 120k critical with 35k on orb detonate. Not counting the hot portion or any multi strike.

The split is good in melee cleaves against teams that do a ton of spread. I rarely use envelope these days.
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#13 Atth

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Posted 07 May 2015 - 09:37 PM

Zen Sphere and Renewing mists and hope they don't purge Env while you're sooth misting.
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


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#14 dekonig

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Posted 09 May 2015 - 09:29 PM

i agree with that. i think i could've made my post more clear.
i was referring to his position on mw gameplay. i think casting surging is good gameplay, on the other hand not being able to spam it and spend all your chi on enveloping is clunky. what i was saying was unrelated to dispel protection.


I'm not a fan of spammy healing, which is why i hate playing resto druid, especially back when they had 3x lifebloom - but of course, everyone likes different things. My personal view is MW would be more engaging if you didn't have to fill every global with surge. That said, the problem might be having to sit on 4 chi, which i will agree with you - feels really clunky.
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#15 Railander

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Posted 21 May 2015 - 02:14 PM

I'm not a fan of spammy healing, which is why i hate playing resto druid, especially back when they had 3x lifebloom - but of course, everyone likes different things. My personal view is MW would be more engaging if you didn't have to fill every global with surge. That said, the problem might be having to sit on 4 chi, which i will agree with you - feels really clunky.

i definitely do not use every global with surging. not even close to that.
im talking about being able to spam it without wasting chi when someone is taking massive damage. if you're healing massive dmg as a paly you spam flash of light, as a priest you spam flash heal, as a shaman you spam healing surge, etc.
as a monk if you need to spam surging you'll waste chi because you generate the 3 chi faster than the duration of enveloping, being forced to clip it (unless playing chi explosion).
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