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[Fire] What does it need to be "viable" in arena currently?


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#1 Np-

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 09:56 PM

Note: While I know some people think it's pointless to talk about these things as they assume blizzard will change nothing, but the #1 complaint from high rated mages was ice nova being too powerful/dumb and promoting bad gameplay with it's DRs and instant stuns, and wanting more frost bolt dmg instead, this came with the first major patch and it was a PvP change only. . Anything is possible ;)


Hello,

In 6.1 if you glyph it, ignite gives a 40% slow for fire. I like that as when playing fire no slow outside of a 25-50 second cool down depending on how you use them is a little rough, and with living bomb dmg being so low, you have no frost nova as well.


So now, what is the main issue keeping fire from being "viable"? By viable I mean if you get good at the spec it being able to while not be better than frost be decent enough to the point pretty much no person but extreme close friends who will let you try hard will play with you. I currently find sub rogues to be acceptable viability, for example, even though combat is better/way more popular sort of like frost versus fire.

I enjoy the idea of fire, stuff to do while moving(scorch x3 into < 1 sec fireball, inf blast, pyro) and the idea of some dot dmg/spread pressure and procs to manage. It kind of reminds of of a shadowish priesty type play.


So what does it need? Is it the raw damage output being too low in arena? Is it living bomb needs to be buffed so we have a frost nova and a decent dot fitting in with the dot dmg play style some? Does combust need a 3 sec stun again?


Would like to hear :)
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#2 Mawky

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 10:20 PM

Everytime you ignite somebody, so actually every cast you do as fire mage, should slow now (or am i wrong? :D)

The problem with fire is, that you need to breath your target to get a sheep off (like deep from frostmage). But breath drs with clone/fear so when you breath+sheep you actually claim all drs just for a sheep instead of a sheep+clone combo.

so the first step for fire to not be a total dr-clusterfuckdisaster would be to remove breath from cyclone dr (but they wont because they are happy how the merged the categories together)
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#3 Np-

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 11:00 PM

Everytime you ignite somebody, so actually every cast you do as fire mage, should slow now (or am i wrong? :D)

The problem with fire is, that you need to breath your target to get a sheep off (like deep from frostmage). But breath drs with clone/fear so when you breath+sheep you actually claim all drs just for a sheep instead of a sheep+clone combo.

so the first step for fire to not be a total dr-clusterfuckdisaster would be to remove breath from cyclone dr (but they wont because they are happy how the merged the categories together)


In the patch notes it says glyphed, targets with ignite debuff on them will be slowed for 40%, this is in 6.1. I assume this meant that right now no slow exist in that form or if it does, it is very small.

Versus most healers other than rdruids (which is getting nerfed some next patch but still, clearly it's an issue that rdruids are not vunerable to this) can be:

Dragons breath > frost jaw > sheep, if you are able to resheep or any other non DR'd with fear CC off of the DB > frostjaw > sheep, then fear drs will have fallen.

It's also worth nothing a druid out of form who gets dbd into sheep > resheep > frostjaww would also suffer the same fate of fear drs falling off and being cc'd for all of it?
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#4 Mawky

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 11:53 PM

first of all: you play with rogue or shadow, both have silence, so i would not recommend fj in most matchups. Its just to powerfull to be able to sheep -> kick -> rof.

On the other hand: you think about the perfect rotation of your ccs. So after you got that perfectly done your druid can start to cc as well, thats just very hard to execute.
If you play with Mage/Druid you both can cast Sheep and clone at the same time and the enemies often cant stop both so you get the cc chain started, no matter what they kick. But against fire if they just stop 1 re-cc your complete cc-chain breaks and you cant even reach the time when your druid could start to clone (or your priest can fear, jk priests huehue)


on top of that: with db you cant even make sheep into db (without the sheep beeing dispellt) into sheep of the deep. You always have to get to the enemy healer after your sheep on the dd and in this time the dd is already dispelled and can stop you.
And again, if you Multi-Db you clusterfuck your drs and your druid cant clone 2 or even 3 targets for almost 20s.


So all in all Db is very clunky if you play with a Druid (or a priest). It fits better with holy paladin who can go for hoj instead of fear, but since holypaladin is to weak to heal a mage atm we have to see if 6.1 revives fire godcomb. But with druid fire is just no fun to play imo.
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#5 Sadstory1337

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Posted 23 February 2015 - 11:59 PM

Ok I play with 'livin' the highest fire mage in the world currently. (we reached up to almost 2.9 as fireplay this season)
And what we as a team miss is a viable and reliable stun. stun-> sheep or fear or clone or silence.
Also what fucks us up is the DR of dragon's breath. Which makes it very annoying to play RMD/WMD/FIREPLAY.
Dragon's Breath DR's with Psychic Scream, Fear, Cyclone, Intimidating Shout and Blind.
The damage that a fire mage can do is actually fine, The mechanics are fine 2. Either give dragon's breath a seperate DR or give fire mages a stun (combustion stun ????? so they can reliably get there cc chain)
Dragon's Breathed people run around a little (because it's a disorient(like scatter)) which makes it hard to ring players because they might randomly move out of it.
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#6 Np-

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Posted 24 February 2015 - 03:12 AM

Ok I play with 'livin' the highest fire mage in the world currently. (we reached up to almost 2.9 as fireplay this season)
And what we as a team miss is a viable and reliable stun. stun-> sheep or fear or clone or silence.
Also what fucks us up is the DR of dragon's breath. Which makes it very annoying to play RMD/WMD/FIREPLAY.
Dragon's Breath DR's with Psychic Scream, Fear, Cyclone, Intimidating Shout and Blind.
The damage that a fire mage can do is actually fine, The mechanics are fine 2. Either give dragon's breath a seperate DR or give fire mages a stun (combustion stun ????? so they can reliably get there cc chain)
Dragon's Breathed people run around a little (because it's a disorient(like scatter)) which makes it hard to ring players because they might randomly move out of it.


Yeah just thought maybe ignite combust numbers might be low from crit being cut in half in PvP. So maybe combust having a 3 sec stun again would be ideal?
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