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Lock Lock Lock Rogue Pala vs. Warr Warr Druid Shaman Paladin


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#21 gatoja

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 12:45 AM

here is the better question, what utility does a resto shaman bring over an elemental shaman?

I can tell you of the utility that a paladin brings over a resto shaman.


And to run a resto shaman over an elemental means you sacrifice any sort of utility that another healer brings.


BTW, do you think your argument is more valid by trying to argue that I am just making blanket statements? I mean, how about you argue resto shaman vs holy paladin/resto druid rather than using generic "internet argument" tactics.
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#22 Ekun

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 01:51 AM

here is the better question, what utility does a resto shaman bring over an elemental shaman?

I can tell you of the utility that a paladin brings over a resto shaman.


And to run a resto shaman over an elemental means you sacrifice any sort of utility that another healer brings.


BTW, do you think your argument is more valid by trying to argue that I am just making blanket statements? I mean, how about you argue resto shaman vs holy paladin/resto druid rather than using generic "internet argument" tactics.


Why are you comparing a healer to a DPS... The same class for that matter. Since my argument is over which setup is better with a spriest/lock/rogue 4DPS, you are suggesting an elemental shaman + pally? or even restoration druid + 2nd lock?

Elemental Shaman + Pally vs Mage + Restor Sham: You loose a caster's spammable crowd control and the ability to CC warriors (2 warrior teams). You loose a 8 second counterspell. You loose AoE snare. You loose a caster that will never get FF'ed in this lineup. You loose a NS heal (ele shaman's NS heal is a joke). With a pally you gain Bof/BoP and a full bubble heal if it isn't massdispellled. You also gain one of the most easily interrupted healer in the game. Your team as whole do not have a decurse, all CC shares the same DR, you have slightly more burst but your team is easily crippled by CoT.

Restoration Druid + 2nd Lock vs Mage + Restor Sham: Please refer back to my previous posts. You are essentially trading the occasional cyclones/roots and full time fears (thats already on DR with TWO other classes) for a full time polymorph and a 40 seconds of 30% DPS increase.

k, your turn.

Edit: How am I using any generic internet argument tactics.. I've backed up every point I made with at least one or two reasons. Please quote me where I've made an invalid point.
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#23 gatoja

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 04:38 AM

what I said was the best set up for HIS STRAT was replacing a lock for a shadow priest and grabbing a resto druid.


There is not one whole genre that is 4 dps. There are control varieties and there are bloodlust burst varieties. That is what you refuse to admit. You are lumping 4 dps all under one umbrella and stating yours is the best.



And the reality of the situation is that if the opposing 2345 team puts enough pressure on a dps to cause the shaman to NS/Heal its probably game. 4 dps wins and loses in the first 30-60 seconds of a match. If it has come down to your shaman having to scramble, then its game. The reality is that the healer in a 4 dps is primarily a utility slot for the strategy of the team.

A paladin is not utilized b/c of his ability to spam heal, he provides freedoms, bops, and 12 seconds immunity in case things go a bit poorly. If the 2345 stabilizes, the paladin will be most likely be mana drained and CCed/CSed.

The same argument and way of looking at healers applies to all healers in a 4 dps team.


You are arguing for a certain healer as if you were on a 2345 rather than a 4 dps team.
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#24 gatoja

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 04:40 AM

oh and sorry for the late replies, my 5's team is trying to ride the surge a bit for a bit of easy rank :D. Nothing like riding the surge for a quick 10 games and 50 points after going 7-3. This week is probably the only time that we can be assured of always queuing for decent points. :D

As well as messing around with all the 2.3 stuff. :)
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#25 Clinkz

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 04:48 PM

The problem is 2 warrs with wf/bl is just nuking our lock in a nick of time.We usually go for their priests but we cant take him down anyway :/
U think we should go for a warrior or something?
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#26 Clinkz

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 04:53 PM

But then, warrior wont go down :/
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#27 gatoja

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Posted 14 November 2007 - 05:00 PM

the trick is to coordinate your silences/fears to when one of those warriors gets low.

A shadow priest would help immensely from both its utility (mana/health) gain, AoE fear, and silence. Oh and did I mention the fact that it probably makes quite a bit better tank than an affliction lock. Oh and a troll shadow priest can really open your game up for you. Trolls make the best 5v5 4dp shadow priest b/c of hex of weakness (gives 20% reduction to healing). I think bloodelves have it as well, but I am not sure.


The deal is this, your primary CC is fear, and their primary DPS are warriors. This is the whole oil and water scenario.

Ask yourselves these questions-
do all casters have curse of tongue
are you fearing the opposing team's healers
are you putting curse of exhaustion AND curse of weakness on the opposing warriors.
Are you utilizing your felhunters to dispel their key buffs like freedoms or key debuffs on your team like sheeps?
Are you wasting death coils? Rather than using them as 3 second silences/interrupts and emergency "get the warrior off me" spell.
Do you coordinate your silences
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Earthshock: the only silence that silences the caster for nearly as long!

#28 Clinkz

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 04:04 PM

U tell me to kill a warrior with 3 healers on him? :P
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#29 gatoja

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 04:54 PM

The trick is to control those healers, not to let them free spam.


If you dont get rid of one of those warriors, your team is toast. A healer is not going to do it. B/c that team set up can still 4v5 you pretty easily, especially as the match drags on.
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Earthshock: the only silence that silences the caster for nearly as long!

#30 Clinkz

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 08:51 AM

So lets get this topic to somewhere else... What would be the best 5v5 combo for rogue.Dont think of my combo at the moment and say which combo would go best in 5v5 rogue? :)
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#31 gatoja

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Posted 16 November 2007 - 01:58 PM

best 5's combo for rogues-

it involves being on one of two teams, combat mutilate for both-
team one-
warlock
warlock
shadow priest
rogue
healer

team two-
frost mage
elemental shaman
rogue
shadow priest/moonkin/warlock
non resto-shaman healer
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http://tsericdown.ytmnd.com/

Earthshock: the only silence that silences the caster for nearly as long!

#32 Clinkz

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 08:25 AM

Well,why switching a lock with shadowpriest? :P They die too fast only with 1 healer.Even SL locks cant stand much against 2 warr setups etc. etc. Priests just go oom too fast and also they die too fast imho :)
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#33 gatoja

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Posted 17 November 2007 - 08:58 PM

Well,why switching a lock with shadowpriest? :P They die too fast only with 1 healer.Even SL locks cant stand much against 2 warr setups etc. etc. Priests just go oom too fast and also they die too fast imho :)


huh?
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http://tsericdown.ytmnd.com/

Earthshock: the only silence that silences the caster for nearly as long!

#34 Clinkz

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Posted 19 November 2007 - 12:54 PM

shdpriests die too fast and get oom too fast :>
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