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Arms Haste Priority

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#1 demilicious

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 07:41 PM

I’ve been running sims a lot the past couple days and have found that almost regardless of gear and buffs, haste comes out as the top DPS stat for Arms - even on single target. Mastery is quite close, of course, but the advantage of haste over mastery increases dramatically once the fight is multi target.

Has anyone else found something similar, or is gearing for haste? I’m thinking a priority of Haste == Mastery > Crit may be ideal.

Or, alternatively, what am I missing in the sims that would cause haste to take a lower priority?
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#2 Speedymart

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 07:52 PM

I’ve been running sims a lot the past couple days and have found that almost regardless of gear and buffs, haste comes out as the top DPS stat for Arms - even on single target. Mastery is quite close, of course, but the advantage of haste over mastery increases dramatically once the fight is multi target.

Has anyone else found something similar, or is gearing for haste? I’m thinking a priority of Haste == Mastery > Crit may be ideal.

Or, alternatively, what am I missing in the sims that would cause haste to take a lower priority?


Warriors have like 20% uptime, as a result we are completely reliant on the giant chunk damage we do and mastery increases that directly
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#3 Aran32

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 08:03 PM

Warriors have like 20% uptime, as a result we are completely reliant on the giant chunk damage we do and mastery increases that directly


This. Mastery > world.
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#4 demilicious

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 08:12 PM

Warriors have like 20% uptime, as a result we are completely reliant on the giant chunk damage we do and mastery increases that directly


Hah, I understand the hyperbole, but the sims included stuns, target swaps, and player mistakes/downtime. Haste still wins. Barely, on single target, but it wins.
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#5 Blameshift

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 08:17 PM

i just went full mastery, treating it like ARP in wotlk. the more the better xd
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#6 Aran32

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 08:35 PM

Hah, I understand the hyperbole, but the sims included stuns, target swaps, and player mistakes/downtime. Haste still wins. Barely, on single target, but it wins.


You rely too much on simulationcraft. It is all up to personal playstyle, comp and uptime. When you have low uptime you need to have big hits so you can create pressure. Mastery does that while haste barely does anything in the regard.
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#7 demilicious

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 09:37 PM

You rely too much on simulationcraft. It is all up to personal playstyle, comp and uptime. When you have low uptime you need to have big hits so you can create pressure. Mastery does that while haste barely does anything in the regard.


It's absolutely true that lower uptime increases the value of mastery.

The purpose of this thread was twofold - one, to let people know that haste is a very good stat, even with realistic uptime. Second, to expose errors in my conclusions which had previously gone unseen. Of course uptime (and therefore comp) matters in the haste/mastery debate; thank you for pointing that out. However, I can't possibly imagine that the 'best stat' argument can be casually foregone by the phrase, "it is all up to personal playstyle..."?
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#8 Aran32

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 08:23 PM

It's absolutely true that lower uptime increases the value of mastery.

The purpose of this thread was twofold - one, to let people know that haste is a very good stat, even with realistic uptime. Second, to expose errors in my conclusions which had previously gone unseen. Of course uptime (and therefore comp) matters in the haste/mastery debate; thank you for pointing that out. However, I can't possibly imagine that the 'best stat' argument can be casually foregone by the phrase, "it is all up to personal playstyle..."?


Don't really know about your sims, but according to my sims mastery turns out to be significantly better than haste on single target.
Haste might be better in certain scenarios, but mastery is always the safe bet no matter what comp you play and what comp you face.
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#9 Evilcow

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 08:49 PM

I’ve been running sims a lot the past couple days and have found that almost regardless of gear and buffs, haste comes out as the top DPS stat for Arms - even on single target. Mastery is quite close, of course, but the advantage of haste over mastery increases dramatically once the fight is multi target.

Has anyone else found something similar, or is gearing for haste? I’m thinking a priority of Haste == Mastery > Crit may be ideal.

Or, alternatively, what am I missing in the sims that would cause haste to take a lower priority?


My sims show versatility > mastery > haste, but with certain gear sets (and buffs) haste gets valued above all.
I'm running a custom PvP fight style and a simcraft version with some warrior pvp fixes.
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#10 Drevi

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 07:58 PM

Probably the sim is trying to reach the 10% (15% with haste buff) haste cap to get 2 MS per CS ?
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#11 Evilcow

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 10:23 AM

Probably the sim is trying to reach the 10% (15% with haste buff) haste cap to get 2 MS per CS ?


That's probably it since my sim char is currently at 8.77% haste.
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#12 Powerslave

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 01:41 AM

can someone make a video with 2 MS in a CS with 15% haste?
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#13 Carta

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 12:25 PM

Used full epic pvp gear scaled to 690(Only self buff ,with pvp crit reduction, 7.83%haste).
The sims show:
Single target patchwerk:
1.00 Str
0.53 Mastery
0.45 Vers
0.42 Haste
0.40 Crit
0.29 Mult
2 target patchwerk:
1.00 Str
0.46 Vers
0.43 Haste
0.43 Crit
0.41 Mastery
0.28 Mult
Heavy movement 1 target(4s movement 10s cd)
1.00 Str
0.53 Mastery
0.45 Vers
0.35 Crit
0.29 Mult
0.01 Haste

Ofc these are just sims so they are probably not 100% accurate in PvP.
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#14 demilicious

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 05:13 PM

Used full epic pvp gear scaled to 690(Only self buff ,with pvp crit reduction, 7.83%haste).
The sims show:
Single target patchwerk:
1.00 Str
0.53 Mastery
0.45 Vers
0.42 Haste
0.40 Crit
0.29 Mult
2 target patchwerk:
1.00 Str
0.46 Vers
0.43 Haste
0.43 Crit
0.41 Mastery
0.28 Mult
Heavy movement 1 target(4s movement 10s cd)
1.00 Str
0.53 Mastery
0.45 Vers
0.35 Crit
0.29 Mult
0.01 Haste

Ofc these are just sims so they are probably not 100% accurate in PvP.


That's something I clearly forgot to model - the ilvl boost of PvP gear in a PvP scenario. Thanks for the input, Carta.
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#15 Armiger

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 06:08 PM

mastery for the win.
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#16 Evilcow

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Posted 09 February 2015 - 09:53 PM

Used full epic pvp gear scaled to 690(Only self buff ,with pvp crit reduction, 7.83%haste).
The sims show:
Single target patchwerk:
1.00 Str
0.53 Mastery
0.45 Vers
0.42 Haste
0.40 Crit
0.29 Mult
2 target patchwerk:
1.00 Str
0.46 Vers
0.43 Haste
0.43 Crit
0.41 Mastery
0.28 Mult
Heavy movement 1 target(4s movement 10s cd)
1.00 Str
0.53 Mastery
0.45 Vers
0.35 Crit
0.29 Mult
0.01 Haste

Ofc these are just sims so they are probably not 100% accurate in PvP.


My numbers:
7.83 Wdps
3.35 Str
3.17 AP
1.41 Vers
1.30 Mast
1.02 Haste
0.96 Crit
0.92 Multi

This is self-buffed, doing a single-target priority, with full epic pvp gear scaled up to 690 with 2pc and 4pc set bonuses.
Running a custom fight style with 3s casts every 20s, charges every 25s (removed pve no charge rage on the same target fix), 1s stuns every 25s, target switches every 25s, taking 15k-30k dps and with 2 adds appearing for 15s every 30s.
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