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Killing Spree Nerf


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#21 Chefyata

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:17 PM

I'm actually mostly annoyed at Assassination not being viable, it used to be my favorite spec after Sub ( Prep/Mutilate times ).


Yeah, I loved the fact that I was able to switch between assassination and sub in s7/8 depending moods and such.

Although even if they made it viable, it would never be the same as the wotlk assassination.
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#22 Raak

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:20 PM

Subtlety is completely fine in right hands ( even better than Combat actually ). A properly played Sub RMD I'd dare say is much more effective in winning than a Combat RMD, as Combat is forced to stick the rogue on a target ( usually the healer ) and keep him up on the target as much as possible, while Sub can actually create opportunities based on skill level of the players involved.

The main difference besides that is that Combat RMD is much more user friendly.


I'm actually mostly annoyed at Assassination not being viable, it used to be my favorite spec after Sub ( Prep/Mutilate times ).


Only time I've enjoyed assassination in pvp was in s1/s2 as deep assa with master poisoner and vile poisons instead of the popular 41/20/0 combat assa.
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#23 Chefyata

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:38 PM

Only time I've enjoyed assassination in pvp was in s1/s2 as deep assa with master poisoner and vile poisons instead of the popular 41/20/0 combat assa.


Yeah, there was actually something awkwardly fun about the spec being so waddly and bursty at the same time. The mutilate animation made me jizz every time
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#24 mirag

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 02:45 PM

Can we please have that setbonus for sub aswell?
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#25 fakedSkill

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 03:04 PM

Nothing is stopping any of you playing sub. If you prefer sub then play it. The choice is perfectly valid and is certainly not what's holding you back from high ratings.

Combat is fun for what it is but its not as though sub doesn't have mongo qualities. All throughout cataclysm it was endless complaints of being impossible to kill due to recuperate and smoke > dance being overpowered. Some of you really have to understand that there's nothing wrong with two viable specs for PvP.

Due to the way specializations and talents work, there isn't really so much of a difference in play style, just damage really. What subtlety lacks (minimally) in damage compared to combat it gains in its utility with shadow dance (clutch saps and cheap peels). Shadow dance is still an immensely powerful ability and it even lasts longer now.

I think combat hate is honestly a result of letting one spec reign supreme for too long an amount of time, every feels jarred when another spec can perform equally. Let me tell you...it isn't the spec. Practice makes perfect. Spec sub and feel good about playing the non-flavor choice.


I personally think that the damage difference between combat and sub is not that minimal. On one hand you have combat pressure that builds up with time, at the peek its not peelable and the output is massive. On the other hand you have the sub damage, that builds around a 1 min. cd dance, which is easily peelable and you have to choose the use of the dance wisely : burst or control.

If you would ask any 3s partner, they would most likely prefer combat. I'm not high rated or anything but my mates begged me to respec combat and that is the crazy thing. When mates prefer a spec because it's superior and not because it doesn't fit in the comp, something is wrong in my opinion.
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#26 Raak

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 03:06 PM

Nothing is stopping any of you playing sub. If you prefer sub then play it. The choice is perfectly valid and is certainly not what's holding you back from high ratings.

Combat is fun for what it is but its not as though sub doesn't have mongo qualities. All throughout cataclysm it was endless complaints of being impossible to kill due to recuperate and smoke > dance being overpowered. Some of you really have to understand that there's nothing wrong with two viable specs for PvP.

Due to the way specializations and talents work, there isn't really so much of a difference in play style, just damage really. What subtlety lacks (minimally) in damage compared to combat it gains in its utility with shadow dance (clutch saps and cheap peels). Shadow dance is still an immensely powerful ability and it even lasts longer now.

I think combat hate is honestly a result of letting one spec reign supreme for too long an amount of time, every feels jarred when another spec can perform equally. Let me tell you...it isn't the spec. Practice makes perfect. Spec sub and feel good about playing the non-flavor choice.


Yeah whatever. Can you delusional combat rogues stop trying beg for everyones acceptance for your monkey spec? Thank you.
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#27 Kidneygod

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 03:18 PM

104k DfA in PTR during redbuff labeled as a nerf

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#28 Chubbsmalone

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 04:13 PM

Deep Insight (red buff) needs to be nerfed, not killing spree.

Also... I just 'lol' at all the Combat hate out there. Seriously, how is Combat different than playing a DK/Warrior/Feral/Enhance? You run at people and smash constant pressure into them, have a "big damage" CD, and try to kill or CC stuff with stuns. It's the same thing with a different flavor, get over yourselves.
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#29 Kroyfel

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 04:16 PM

A red buff nerf won't happen unless combat rogues are op in pve.
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#30 Lolflay

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 04:19 PM

A red buff nerf won't happen unless combat rogues are op in pve.


Our Combat Rogue swapped from Combat and went Sub on most encounters, Butcher especially. Sub currently yields more damage in PvE in most cases.
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#31 Chubbsmalone

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:15 PM

If this goes live...

Red Buff: Kidney -> Killing Spree -> Vanish -> Garrote -> DFA
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#32 Nahj

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:29 PM

Our Combat Rogue swapped from Combat and went Sub on most encounters, Butcher especially. Sub currently yields more damage in PvE in most cases.

Subs dmg in PvE is entirely balanced around sinister calling and multistrike which is half in PvP.

Scaling wise sub gets sinister calling 15% agi (which is 1ap per agi and no crit in WoD) vs combat getting vitality (+40% attack power).

They need to just cut combat off at the knee it's design is disgusting. Make killing spree peel-able and make red buff 30% in pvp combat only like they did with nerfs to boomkins being separate from PvE.

Edited by Nahj, 30 January 2015 - 05:33 PM.

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#33 Maumaux

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:33 PM

t

im so sick of shit rogues claiming that "sub is some sort of god spec" rogues are easy as fuck to play in both specs get the fuck over yourself fgt.

No need for all the hate and language but your right Sub is just as easy if not easier than Combat, you do the same exact thing. Stun dance or Killing spree. Only thing is it is very hard for a rogue to keep red buff which is where our damage comes from against good players. Its really easy to lock down a rogue in yellow buff so it resets.

Sub you don't have to wait for stacks all you have to do is get a bleed up and find weakness. That is by far a lot easier, unless you completely ignore the rogue all game then when you get stunned and killing spreed on you cry for rogue nerfs. But still to this day this far into the season people just let the rogue tunnel someone and don't treat him as a deadly opponent. This comes from years of Sub being the only viable choice. No one was scared of a rogue till he dance, then you just cced him, people are still in that mind frame.

Anyways just blame/thank Woundman for having the brains and commitment to be a hipster figure out that Combat is both fun and viable.
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#34 Maumaux

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:36 PM

Subs dmg in PvE is entirely balanced around sinister calling and multistrike which is half in PvP.

Scaling wise sub gets sinister calling 15% agi (which is 1ap per agi and no crit in WoD) vs combat getting vitality (+40% attack power).

They need to just cut combat off at the knee it's design is disgusting. Make killing spree peel-able and make red buff 30% in pvp combat only like they did with nerfs to boomkins being separate from PvE.

Will never happen if a rogue Killing sprees with no buff it tickles if that, hell you wont even notice it. Green buff still same thing, yellow buff you can see some damage and red buff you really notice the damage. That right there should tell you something, stop ignoring the rogue so he gets red buff, its really easy to swap to rogue cc him so the buff falls off and has to start all over again.
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#35 Maumaux

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:39 PM

Deep Insight (red buff) needs to be nerfed, not killing spree.

Also... I just 'lol' at all the Combat hate out there. Seriously, how is Combat different than playing a DK/Warrior/Feral/Enhance? You run at people and smash constant pressure into them, have a "big damage" CD, and try to kill or CC stuff with stuns. It's the same thing with a different flavor, get over yourselves.

Ya its not exactly red buff, red buff is 30 percent, but because of WoD perks its 50 percent. So technically its the WoD perk that is the culprit but no buff, green, buff, yellow buff you do next to no damage. Only time you see good numbers is from red buff because its 50 percent. If it was 30 percent it might not even be playable, Killing spree would do about as much damage maybe less than dance.
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#36 Maumaux

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:44 PM

Our Combat Rogue swapped from Combat and went Sub on most encounters, Butcher especially. Sub currently yields more damage in PvE in most cases.

Ya that is why Sub wont get buffed in PVP Sub is the top rogue spec for raiding, hell its top melee spec it might even get nerfed in damage because warriors are complaining. It also is the most fun, I like Sub but played it for 4 years in pvp im glad I don't have to give blizzard 60 dollars for a instant 90 warrior, resto druid or hunter just to be able to have fun pvping.

You all see whats going on here right? They are literally making money hand over fist right now for instant 90's by pvp players. I think all these extreme changes throughout the season are on purpose so people pay them more money.
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#37 Maumaux

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:46 PM

  • PvP 4-piece set bonus for Combat Rogues has been redesigned. Using Vanish instantly generates 5 combo points and the next Ambush, Eviscerate, Revealing Strike, or Sinister Strike will be a critical strike.
So killing spree will do 7 strikes instead of 9.

This is stupid. There's no way a Red Buff DFA CRIT doesn't chunk people. KS got nerfed but they were given more than enough compensation.


And ya should change the title to Rogue Buff, 1 second extra was horrible anyways
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#38 Maumaux

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:51 PM

And no one cares about the Dwarf nerf huh? Poor shamans, once you use stoneform the other team will tunnel you into the ground because you cant trinket for 30 seconds after stoneform.
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#39 Hobbesqt

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 05:51 PM

Ya its not exactly red buff, red buff is 30 percent, but because of WoD perks its 50 percent. So technically its the WoD perk that is the culprit but no buff, green, buff, yellow buff you do next to no damage. Only time you see good numbers is from red buff because its 50 percent. If it was 30 percent it might not even be playable, Killing spree would do about as much damage maybe less than dance.


Just make the rogue cc-able during Killing Spree, and maybe nerf the damage some and put it elsewhere, like Evis.

If you are doing burst, you need to be able to have cc affect you. That simple. No excuses, no exceptions. That adds strategy to the game. When you let a player burst someone without being able to be controlled, it just destroys the skill required to play.

While they make this change, they need to do the same thing to every other burst CD that let's this fly, like Ret wings 4 piece. I have no hate against the spec, but the same rules need to apply.
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#40 Azyos

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Posted 30 January 2015 - 06:03 PM

Nothing is stopping any of you playing sub. If you prefer sub then play it. The choice is perfectly valid and is certainly not what's holding you back from high ratings.

Combat is fun for what it is but its not as though sub doesn't have mongo qualities. All throughout cataclysm it was endless complaints of being impossible to kill due to recuperate and smoke > dance being overpowered. Some of you really have to understand that there's nothing wrong with two viable specs for PvP.

Due to the way specializations and talents work, there isn't really so much of a difference in play style, just damage really. What subtlety lacks (minimally) in damage compared to combat it gains in its utility with shadow dance (clutch saps and cheap peels). Shadow dance is still an immensely powerful ability and it even lasts longer now.

I think combat hate is honestly a result of letting one spec reign supreme for too long an amount of time, every feels jarred when another spec can perform equally. Let me tell you...it isn't the spec. Practice makes perfect. Spec sub and feel good about playing the non-flavor choice.


No, people hate combat because getting 100-0 with unpeelable, single button press damage is absolutely disgusting. Combat rogues right now are in the same place hunters and DKs were in s5, deity tier.
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