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So.. haste, multistrike or versality?


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Poll: WOD Mage stat prio (128 member(s) have cast votes)

For what gear / enchants should you aim for?

  1. Full haste (61 votes [47.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 47.66%

  2. Haste till 10%-15%ishh, then build versality (31 votes [24.22%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 24.22%

  3. Full multistrike (4 votes [3.12%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 3.12%

  4. Mix mutlistrike with haste (13 votes [10.16%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 10.16%

  5. Full versality (19 votes [14.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 14.84%

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#41 hydrange

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 11:15 AM

I just felt like adding, that multistrike is not only good for the dmg increase, but also for the increased chance to proc Brain Freeze. Which essentially is also a dmg increase, since it's by far more dmg than a frostbolt and maybe even Ice Lance. Also now that you can stack 2 stacks of BF, the multistrike has a chance to give you two stacks which can be huge if going for a kill.

Also I love haste for not only making Poly faster, but also reducing the GCD which in Ice Lance spam means quicker burst. On the other hand I agree that you can not calculate the dmg output from Haste directly, since DPS uptime will warry from 1 Frost Bolt in a game to 100.

To be completely fair, your stats alone wont matter a lot in a 3s fight. Your have 2 team mates who will help out too. Having 1% extra dmg wont matter nearly as much, as a good timing on a trinket/wep proc etc. It's RNG after all, and that is why I personally think people like Versa more than any othe stat in terms of dmg, because it's more consistent.

Versa also reduces dmg taken, which makes it superior to any kind of dmg in scenarioes where the mage is being trained IMO.
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#42 phael

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 02:04 PM

Made a spreadsheet for comparisons: (for human mages with on use trinkets, just trade the 277 crit for 111 int on trinket 2 )

https://docs.google....6Ie8/edit#gid=0

~20% haste seems nice with the new 4pc.
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#43 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 02:27 PM

versatility makes flameglow more effective vs bigger hits and has no side effect on low hits

other then the damage reduction from versatility making the total (not %) amount reduced by flameglow lower vs small/medium hits, since 30% of a smaller number is, surprisingly, also a smaller number

which is the point we were making, but thanks for the maths lesson anyway :)

tldr: we have generally two choices for almost every gear slot - in the vast majority of cases the better item to use should be pretty obvious anyway

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 13 January 2015 - 02:29 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#44 leek

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 06:41 PM

http://us.battle.net...millia/advanced

If this guy buys the crit/haste ring this will be the gear setup I use in 6.1!
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#45 phael

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 07:26 PM

http://us.battle.net...millia/advanced

If this guy buys the crit/haste ring this will be the gear setup I use in 6.1!


Same, it's identical to the test setup I made in the spreadsheet above. Damn near 19% haste passive in PvP zones with 20k-ish frostbolts on targets using 6.1 trinkets for the 15% damage reduction. Seems really nice.
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#46 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 07:33 PM

using 6.1 trinkets for the 15% damage reduction

you get the 15% damage reduction using 6.0 trinkets as well, its a tooltip update in the notes :)
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#47 phael

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 07:36 PM

you get the 15% damage reduction using 6.0 trinkets as well, its a tooltip update in the notes :)


Posted Image

ima derp lol
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#48 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 January 2015 - 07:52 PM

Posted Image

ima derp lol

^^

all of the % changes in the notes are tooltip updates, the only new changes so far are mechanics changes like set bonuses / deep freeze
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#49 Abendschein

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Posted 14 January 2015 - 10:44 AM

Mathematically, you need a lower percentage of versatility than you do multistrike to achieve the same damage over the course of a minute.

Add that to the defensive aspect, and versatility is ultimately better than multistrike.

Now, haste is a whole different ball game. I feel that depends more on your comp. Personally, I prefer haste>versatility>multistrike. Haste is more about the utility of it. Sheep, ring, globals. I also play Ele/Mage/RDruid in 3's, and haste helps a lot to set up for damage/disabling a healer from dealing that damage.

Until this past Sunday we were sitting at about 2100 and we tanked hard. Aside from our druid dropping his CR to 1950 and lock teams, getting off a sheep or ring in time made all the difference in most of our games. Some of my gear is a bit wonky and I need to fix it, but haste and versatility really do me a lot of justice.

Also, don't play Mage/Ele/X. I play it with a friend I've known since 3.0 and he just likes his Ele more than anything right now. x.x

http://us.battle.net...millia/advanced

If this guy buys the crit/haste ring this will be the gear setup I use in 6.1!

the only thing that sucks is that the Primal Glad shoulders lie on armory. In game it's Haste/Mastery, not Haste/Multi. At least it's still one decent useful stat.

I don't think I'll be going the 4pc though. Doesn't seem worth it to be honest, especially with the offset chest piece giving Versa/Multi.
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I'm still learning. ^_^

#50

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 12:49 PM

Hello, i'm a pretty casual player. Play mostly random bgs for fun and some 2v2 with my friend. Which enchants would benefit me the most? Haste or Multi?

I want to enchant Haste because more frostbolts, bad idea? :P Like in MoP.
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#51 Mawky

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 01:21 PM

Hello, i'm a pretty casual player. Play mostly random bgs for fun and some 2v2 with my friend. Which enchants would benefit me the most? Haste or Multi?

I want to enchant Haste because more frostbolts, bad idea? :P Like in MoP.

haste is for better sheep casttimes, not for frostbolts (ofc fb profits as well but you just increase throwingspeed of wet noodles). In 6.1 this might change because fb will deal 30% more dmg and you can get shatter icenovas into deep, so in 6.1 multistrike may will be better again when we are able do deal real dmg, but atm we are more of a cc-bot and sheep only profits from haste (so yes enchant haste) :D

Edited by Mawky, 16 January 2015 - 01:21 PM.

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#52

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 02:25 PM

Okey. I will go for Haste. I like that 30% to frost bolt. But for damage wise.. Whats better?
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#53 Tyumbra

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 11:01 PM

If you're looking for terms of just raw damage, Multi or Versa are better. Haste is technically a better DPS increase, but considering most of your damage comes from burst abilities that have lengthy cooldowns, you're better stacking stats that provide more damage faster. If you're just playing casually, get Multi until you can get Versatility gear.
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#54

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Posted 16 January 2015 - 11:38 PM

But the new set bonuses? Frostbolt deals 30% more damage against snared (slowed?) Players. Haste would benefit that.

Started to enchant haste. Not sure if im gonna enchant crit vers or multi on my weapon.

edit: think ill change to multistrike. Hope this doesnt change in 6.1
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#55 Tyumbra

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Posted 17 January 2015 - 08:30 AM

We'll see how it plays out. A lot of classes can still remove snares.
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#56 Lukach

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 08:42 AM

It's rly odd n a bit funny to bash multi sooo much as frost mages xD
I mean, how many of u, have like, all pieces of epic gear? Set, both offsets? Has any1 done any testing with them? I'm just asking since it seems to me, ppl decide for haste way to quickly, and the 4set bonus as if its some sorta crazy advantage over multi and i dunno, i haven't tested as i don't have all the pieces of all sets yet but it seems to me, multi is kinda the best stat dmg wise?
More multi=more ffb( which is the highest dmg, even with 'great' 4set bonus fb), more ffb more ice lance.
So basically, the more multi u have, the less time u need to spend casting n more time instanting their faces off. It's just crazy, how it directly contributes to 2 of your best spells. And i would go in favor of totally ditching the set bonuses, and focus on stat prio not in the 1. 2. sorta way, but the opposite, by ditching the least fav stat - mastery. And it looks to me like, u can end up wit having mastery ONLY on cloak. Meaning, more of every other more useful stat. Esp multi, which is by far contributing to most dmg.
Why ditch bonuses? Well leaving a patch of frost, over which almost any1 can jump over is not rly a revelation of any sort, and also, if frost mage has anything, its snares, so yay 2s bonus for snare? rly? Talking of snares, we get to 4s bonus - more dmg on fb. 50%(and not every target will be snared the whole time) sounds like omg its a lot, but do have in mind, fbs dmg is complete dogshit.
Well then surely, u use fbs, to get procs, so ppl asume, aha, ok so more haste, more procs, right? Kinda, but multi simply enhances those procs more than haste does. So basically, if u have a ffb or il proc, even with 4s bonus, your fb can get close to il dmg and thats the peak of its usefulness. Oh n this is wod, casters worst enemy, so its kinda of a big deal 'tween instant n hard cast. Hard cast on a spell that deals the least dmg that is.
Even tho its kinda all on paper, u cant possibly say how u frostbolted someone to death xD And if u wanna say, well its used to get procs, then why go for 4s bonus?
Overall, i still need some time to buy all the pieces without mastery n try out all this. Ofc. haste is always nice, but i rly think by taking some of its points into multi is worth it, esp if there r only around 100 points wasted on mastery on cloak.
In the mean time, rollin as arcane in 2s, way more fun to play :)
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#57 MOOKKY

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 03:10 PM

faster sheeps will help your team more than a few more FFB, that's why haste is king
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#58 Slamspamx

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Posted 29 March 2015 - 09:56 PM

faster sheeps will help your team more than a few more FFB, that's why haste is king

This argument is really annoying, since it doesn't use any numbers. Just tested this by un-equipping some stuff. 5% haste (450? after haste buff, about twice what you get from full chanting it) reduces cast times by 0.06 seconds (1.54 to 1.48 on sheep). Imo even 1% less damage taken is better than that.

Voted and chanted full haste anyway since I'm a lemming.
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#59 Lunatic002

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 11:02 AM

This argument is really annoying, since it doesn't use any numbers. Just tested this by un-equipping some stuff. 5% haste (450? after haste buff, about twice what you get from full chanting it) reduces cast times by 0.06 seconds (1.54 to 1.48 on sheep). Imo even 1% less damage taken is better than that.

Voted and chanted full haste anyway since I'm a lemming.


i did some math:

if i change ONLY the haste enchants:

With enchants:
15,86% haste
Poly = 1,46sec
GCD = 1,29

Without enchants:
12,8%
Poly=1,50sec
GCD=1,33sec


its true that if u look at only that one poly that it doesnt make a huge difference

BUT:
you cast several poly in one game and if you sum it up it does actually make a big difference

if you count in the shorter gcd -> more casts + shorter casts = more dmg/cc

also a shorter gcd can safe your ass (gettin killed bc of gcd -> no iceblock sux a million)
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#60 Slamspamx

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Posted 31 March 2015 - 06:56 PM

Does Haste affect GCD the same as cast times? aka 0.04s cast reduction = 0.04 gcd reduction. I just assumed it has less effect on GCD than casts.
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