215 replies to this topic

[Flakkar]

I noticed all the pve guides put versa ahead of haste, I made a post to get clarification.

Is there a pvp nuance that puts haste above it?

http://us.battle.net...pic/15700024095

Haste is the same in PvP and PvE.

That said, I don't see any reasoning or math behind why Vers is better. Assuming we agree that defenses are not really important in PvE, and we're not interested in the healing or dmg reduction aspects of Vers:

Haste means more runes, more auto attacks, and more KM procs, and gives 12% Haste per 1000 rating for Frost DKs. Vers is always 7.69% per 1000 rating. 12% more Haste means 12% more rune abilities, RP, autoattacks, and KM procs. Since almost all our damage comes from those sources, this means ~10.9% DPS increase (removing disease damage which is not affected) in a long pve fight with high uptime.
Some people say it's because of GCD locks but that's bogus imo because as soon as you get 3 runes recharging Haste is fully working, even if you haven't emptied all your runes.
I don't see how Vers can even approach it.
There's also the fact that Haste is the Frost DK stat, and gets big bonuses from the spec itself.

Check out the latest results: http://www.simulatio.../Raid_T17M.html
The DPS 2h Frost DK gear is MS > Haste > Crit > Vers > Mastery, which is close to what you get if you use my numbers but remove the Crit/MS nerfs.

[Flakkar]

Chest: MA/Vers

I cant find this chest at all, does it still exist?

Yes see link:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=111214

[Agonishdeath]

Yes see link:

Thanks. The vendor in Warspear maybe bugged, going to check in Ashran. All Voljin parts are there except chest for me But you still think it's worth to skip the dispel PvP trink for 2x dps trinks?

edit: Looking at the comments on Wowhead it seems others have the same problem to find it. Blizzard bug I guess.

[Flakkar]

But you still think it's worth to skip the dispel PvP trink for 2x dps trinks?

I think you need the dispel trinket when facing some comps, or in some cc heavy situations. That said I usually run with double dps trinkets, but I do swap to dispel trinket against heavy cc comps, or in some rbgs where you get peeled and cced a lot.

[Stratos]

Hey Flakkar what do you think the latest hotfix will do to the numbers? If it goes live that is.

http://us.battle.net...ry-12-1-12-2015

[Scarkx]

Yep, do we need change gear "once more" ?

[Flakkar]

The hotfixes are a significant buff to haste for frost dks. I haven't done all the math yet but so far I'm seeing haste jump from a 10.9% contribution to about 13.9%. This means it will be without a doubt better than Vers. I will update the post tonight with the full numbers.

If you've been gearing according to my suggestions, you won't have to change anything except maybe enchanting to haste instead of vers if you had gone that route.

[Flakkar]

Hi everyone,

I just updated the post following today's Haste buffs. Note the changes in green. Please let me know if you have questions, or if I made a mistake somewhere.

[Tobbsss]

Great thread, thank you.

I'm going for full haste since the haste buff. What talents would you reccomend to be the best for maxed haste. I'm going plauge leech atm, but I wanted to go Breath of Sindragosa (For a heavier on demand burst) and I heard that Plauge leech is only good with Nerotic plauge. But I feel it's not worth going NP with full haste build since haste don't effect diseases. Do I have to go plaugebearer ?

Blood tap vs Runic corruption, or what I undestood from this thread is that those two works best when going full haste. What whould you say be the best talent here. Conversion I feel is worth going back to since in haste you will have alot more RP. Something tells me Runic corruption will be better, especially if going conversion but im not sure which works best with haste.

It's also better to stay in frost pres as well right since you could reach haste cap in unholy pres now?

Cheers.

[sbx]

Hi everyone,

I just updated the post following today's Haste buffs. Note the changes in green. Please let me know if you have questions, or if I made a mistake somewhere.

+1

OP is awesome

Edited by sbx, 14 January 2015 - 03:57 PM.

[Forumz]

We should try unholy presence again with these haste changes imo. We might be able to reach the point where we have no more downtime.

[Flakkar]

I've been checking out the top ranked DKs in 3v3 and they're all enchanting Vers all the way, even after the current buffs to Haste.

Anyone got any idea why? Is it for the damage reduction, or because Vers does more in the first few seconds of dps?

[Forumz]

It's probably because Haste doesn't really affect your burst, rather it affects how often you can do so.

[Flakkar]

Do you think it's worth stacking more Vers to get higher burst at the expense of sustain?

After the haste buffs my rune regen is super fast, and I constantly have runes up.

[Relentless]

Do you think it's worth stacking more Vers to get higher burst at the expense of sustain?

After the haste buffs my rune regen is super fast, and I constantly have runes up.

Maybe, the problem with haste is you only have so many GCD's to use abilities and when you are full bursting you always have more than enough runes anyway through empower rune weapon / plague leech....

[Stratos]

disregard post

Edited by Stratos, 18 January 2015 - 03:29 PM.

[piddhan]

Would you agree that the vers/ma belt is a good compromise, if you're hoping to return to unholy in the future? Or is the haste/ms one just flat out better, and one should be totally focusing on frost before "off gearing"? I hate this..

[Provvocateur]

IF i using dualwield and most of my dmg is from FS, stil my secondary stat is haste or mastery will be bether ?

[Forumz]

IF i using dualwield and most of my dmg is from FS, stil my secondary stat is haste or mastery will be bether ?

As Dual Wield you want Mastery>Multistrike.

[Flakkar]

Vers/MA belt is just fine. It will enable unholy for you and still be really good for frost.

Remember that Crit and MS are nerfed hard in pvp, but mastery will only be better if you can guarantee over 25% of your damage is frost or shadowfrost.