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Frost DK Research and Stat Facts (Patch 6.2)

Frost Dk Stat priority Gear

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#41 Ravelicious

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 07:01 PM

+1 man, great post.
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#42 Flakkar

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 10:59 PM

+1 man, great post.


Thanks for reading :)
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#43 Stratos

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Posted 02 January 2015 - 11:23 PM

Hey Flakkar what are your thoughts on on dropping the 2 piece bonus.

Ie. the dps from a grip oblit with a km proc on a good day every 30 sec
vs
better stats all the time

Also does anyone know if the bonus works with soul reaper? Or does it just add to the dps from the soul reaper application?
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#44 Flakkar

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Posted 03 January 2015 - 03:51 AM

Hey Flakkar what are your thoughts on on dropping the 2 piece bonus.

Ie. the dps from a grip oblit with a km proc on a good day every 30 sec
vs
better stats all the time

Also does anyone know if the bonus works with soul reaper? Or does it just add to the dps from the soul reaper application?


The stats you would gain by dropping the 2pc bonus don't seem enough to me. If you math it out you get around 0.6% more dps (by my math at least), but the DG into Oblit combo hits so hard that it can win you games. You can take the set pants, which are actually best in slot (or maybe tied with the Vers ones), and then it's only a small sacrifice (if even) to take the shoulders. I don't think 135 haste and 10 MS is worth the 2pc bonus, especially since you're losing 146 mastery as well.

Not sure if the 2pc works for soul reaper, but I would rather use it on an Oblit with a KM proc anyway I think. As for the 4pc, it seems to not work with shadowfrost at all.
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#45 Jinngo

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 10:27 AM

Amazing post! Props bro!
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#46 Hasteborn

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:00 PM

I wanted to stack haste via-enchants but I couldn't shake the mere global damage increase via-Vers.

Though your math makes me want to go buy these enchants right now. Dammit lol.
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#47 Flakkar

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 04:23 AM

I wanted to stack haste via-enchants but I couldn't shake the mere global damage increase via-Vers.

Though your math makes me want to go buy these enchants right now. Dammit lol.


I know how you feel! I've personally got half Vers and half Haste enchants atm. Can't make up my mind what I want :P I think I might go full Vers since I like to play with Breath of Sindragosa and want to be more bursty.
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#48 Relentless

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 01:04 PM

Can't see any mention of the synergy between runic corruption and haste in here? Or am I just blind? i.e. runic corruption increases rune regeneration by 100% which effectively doubles the effect of any extra haste you have.
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#49 sbx

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 02:18 PM

Can't see any mention of the synergy between runic corruption and haste in here? Or am I just blind? i.e. runic corruption increases rune regeneration by 100% which effectively doubles the effect of any extra haste you have.


the duration of the corruption buff is negatively affected by haste so that this effect doesn't occur

otherwise RC would just be by far the best choice every time for every spec
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#50 Relentless

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Posted 05 January 2015 - 02:22 PM

the duration of the corruption buff is negatively affected by haste so that this effect doesn't occur

otherwise RC would just be by far the best choice every time for every spec


Ah right, cheers. So it gives a bigger regen, but for a shorter period of time resulting in the same amount of runes back? Although you get them faster, which is still a benefit for pvp.
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#51 Flakkar

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 02:31 AM

Can't see any mention of the synergy between runic corruption and haste in here? Or am I just blind? i.e. runic corruption increases rune regeneration by 100% which effectively doubles the effect of any extra haste you have.


Note that Haste increases runic power generation due to decreased rune cooldown. As such, it affects all 3 talents in that tier in equal manner with regard to runic power availability. Each talent requires you to spend 75 runic power on average to gain back 1 rune.

As sbx mentioned, Runic Corruption is indeed adjusted based on rune cooldown time. As you stack more and more haste, the cooldown time decreases. If Runic Corruption still lasted 3 seconds at low rune cooldowns, it would become more powerful than the other talents because it would give back more runes in the 3 seconds due to you having higher haste. As a result, it was adjusted to have a lower duration equal to 30% of the time it takes to recharge one of your runes. This means that during its uptime, Runic Corruption will give you at most 0.9 runes (max 3 simultaneous recharging runes * 30% recharge over the duration). If you're stacking a lot of Haste, your rune cooldown will decrease, but Runic Corruption's duration will always be 30% of it, meaning you will only ever get 0.9 rune's worth from each proc.

What's interesting is how the 3 talents differ with respec to the type of runes they bring back, and when.
Runic Corruption seems to be the smoothest from my experience. It partly recharges 1 of each type of rune, meaning when they come up you will be able to do more things. I mentioned that it interacts nicely with Haste because it reduces the time you wait with nothing to do, and gives a feeling of constant availability of runes. With the other talents, you tend to get long periods of 3-5 seconds where you're not doing anything, followed by intense bursts if you get lucky with procs (Runic Empowerment), or if you collect blood tap charges.

Runic Empowerment is super random and doesn't always give a useful rune (but when it does like 3 times in a row it's crazy). The other problem with it is that if it procs while you don't have any fully depleted runes, it doesn't do anything, in contrast to the other 2 talents (though you will lose some of Runic Corruption's effect if you don't have one of each rune type on cooldown). Some might argue that you should never Frost Strike while you have runes up, but note that this issue may happen if you're using Conversion and getting kited. Because of these 2 reasons, I think this is the weakest talent in the tier.

Blood Tap is really good if you can manage it properly, but it can hurt too if you sit on charges too long, or if you forget about them. It's one more thing to manage, but it gives death runes on demand and is not subject to RNG.

The 3 talents are seemingly equal in terms of the dps they add, so it's up to a matter of preference which one you take, though Runic Empowerment sticks out as being a bit worse than the others.
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#52 Redwald

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 05:43 AM

Great Post, but just quickly... are you not overvaluing Haste since you will never have 100% up-time in any real world PVP scenario? I might of missed it though.

Once again, great post.
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#53 Agonishdeath

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 09:38 AM

So, is unholy presence better than frost presence? Pretty sure the answer is yes but for verification.. ;)
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#54 Relentless

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 12:05 PM

So, is unholy presence better than frost presence? Pretty sure the answer is yes but for verification.. ;)


For frost? No, this was discussed in another thread. Even in PvE its still slightly behind frost pres and thats with almost 100% uptime (and almost no CC which frost pres also reduces).
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#55 Flakkar

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 04:14 PM

Great Post, but just quickly... are you not overvaluing Haste since you will never have 100% up-time in any real world PVP scenario?


Haste does indeed depend on uptime, which I did mention in the haste section. However, i also added a blue text edit in the discussion part later on where I explained that you only need to have one of each rune type on cooldown to get most of haste's benefits.
If you feel like you can't keep runes on cooldown then definitely go for versatility, but I don't see uptime as a big issue since I'm almost always out of runes and starving for more.
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#56 Agonishdeath

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Posted 06 January 2015 - 08:38 PM

For frost? No, this was discussed in another thread. Even in PvE its still slightly behind frost pres and thats with almost 100% uptime (and almost no CC which frost pres also reduces).


Ah, even with 10% haste buff? To bad, i love the 15% speed boost :/
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#57 LorenJaffrey

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 04:10 PM

With Haste(10.91) being better than Crit(3.64) + Mastery(~6) it seems to me that for rings the second best pick is the one with Haste/BA? (Taking your percentages as stat weightings)
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#58 Flakkar

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 06:14 PM

Hmm interesting, I never thought of that... Feels so weird to take a stat that gives no benefit (BA) but my numbers seem to agree with you. I'll update the post later today, thanks for catching that.


The only thing that gives me pause is that the percentages are not exact and they are only calculated under certain assumptions such as uptime. The intent of the numbers is to give a reasonable comparison in general. The difference between the BA/Haste ring and the MA/Crit ring is very small so I feel a bit weird taking the BA/Haste ring in case haste isn't quite that good so as to eclipse the other two stats combined.
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#59 Agonishdeath

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 08:04 PM

Chest: MA/Vers

I cant find this chest at all, does it still exist? :o

Another question: Is it really worth not having PvP trink? That dispels i mean.
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#60 Stratos

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 11:41 PM

I noticed all the pve guides put versa ahead of haste, I made a post to get clarification.

Is there a pvp nuance that puts haste above it?

http://us.battle.net...pic/15700024095
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