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Tom Chilton - Pets are just fine


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#41 Auvvey

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:06 PM

The argument that at one point we were in a good place and now we are not and as such should have to suffer is really poor. Why should we have to put up with a poorly designed class when melee only gets stronger as seasons go on. I don't understand how people can logically say "well you were fine two seasons ago so suck it up now." Why is that at all unreasonable that we demand balance throughout all of our time playing?


Actually, its a great argument to show that you really don't care about the game balance as a whole, but just yourself. There are more glaring issues than putting warlocks back up to #2.
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#42 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:09 PM

Actually, its a great argument to show that you really don't care about the game balance as a whole, but just yourself. There are more glaring issues than putting warlocks back up to #2.


So because classes have issues we can't ask to be balanced? I don't see any locks in here saying "FIX US BEFORE OTHER CLASSES PLEASE". To assume that Blizzard would make earnest attempts to balance all classes before the expansion should be the norm since we're actually paying them to play the game.

I guess they're too busy adding exciting new items to Haris Pilton and working on Brewfest to be bother with trivial issues like class balance, though.
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#43 Auvvey

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:16 PM

So because classes have issues we can't ask to be balanced? I don't see any locks in here saying "FIX US BEFORE OTHER CLASSES PLEASE". To assume that Blizzard would make earnest attempts to balance all classes before the expansion should be the norm since we're actually paying them to play the game.

I guess they're too busy adding exciting new items to Haris Pilton and working on Brewfest to be bother with trivial issues like class balance, though.


You're getting what should be some really big buffs come expansion, and you're saying you should get them right now.

Yeah. Not selfish at all.
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#44 Barott

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:16 PM

Pets are not why warlocks were powerful in S2. Drain life not being effected by - healing effects had more to do with warlock strength then their pets.

Why should warlocks have to wait 4-6 months to have their scaling fixed. It's not selfish at all. Blizzard is saying "Keep paying us $15 a month while we refuse to scale pet classes". If they can change a talent to work based of resilience then why can't they add pet scaling off resilience as well

Edited by Barott, 29 June 2008 - 05:20 PM.
Added stuff

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#45 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:21 PM

You're getting what should be some really big buffs come expansion, and you're saying you should get them right now.

Yeah. Not selfish at all.


So you're saying that because I want to be able to be as effective as melee in arena now that it's selfish because I don't feel like waiting?

Why is it acceptable that Blizzard does nothing? I'm not talking about strictly warlocks here, I'm talking about balance as a whole.

How is it selfish to ask for things to change now and not months down the road?
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#46 Auvvey

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:28 PM

So you're saying that because I want to be able to be as effective as melee in arena now that it's selfish because I don't feel like waiting?

Why is it acceptable that Blizzard does nothing? I'm not talking about strictly warlocks here, I'm talking about balance as a whole.

How is it selfish to ask for things to change now and not months down the road?


Because it is totally unrealistic to expect immediate gratification.

Have you ever heard of patience?
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#47 Barott

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:33 PM

Because it is totally unrealistic to expect immediate gratification.

Have you ever heard of patience?


I'm fairly sure that this has been a #1 complain for warlocks for a while now.
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#48 Orgodemir

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:33 PM

Because it is totally unrealistic to expect immediate gratification.

Have you ever heard of patience?


cuz our pet just started having problems at the start of s4 amirite?
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#49 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:35 PM

Because it is totally unrealistic to expect immediate gratification.

Have you ever heard of patience?


These issues have been around since the beginning of s3, the longest season to date, and will persist through s4, which will most likely be the longest season yet since it will last til wrath.

I'm arguing that Blizzard has balance issues that need to be addressed, not just for warlocks, but across the board, and you are essentially saying I, and all warlocks for that matter, and everyone that wants balance NOW and not months down the line, is being impatient and unreasonable. I cannot possibly fathom how you can accept that logic.
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#50 Ultimecia

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:35 PM

Because it is totally unrealistic to expect immediate gratification.

Have you ever heard of patience?


It's not like has just come up, it's been a real issue since the start of season 3, the reason there's the explosion of renewed QQ is that the season 4 gear (especially the melee weapons) are making a problem go from bad to just downright ridiculous and I think it's frankly quite insulting that a lead dev shows that little understanding. When both sides (aka the melee and the warlocks) agree that pets are too easy to kill I think the fact there's a big problem is unquestionable.
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#51 Auvvey

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:43 PM

These issues have been around since the beginning of s3, the longest season to date, and will persist through s4, which will most likely be the longest season yet since it will last til wrath.

I'm arguing that Blizzard has balance issues that need to be addressed, not just for warlocks, but across the board, and you are essentially saying I, and all warlocks for that matter, and everyone that wants balance NOW and not months down the line, is being impatient and unreasonable. I cannot possibly fathom how you can accept that logic.


Probably because I realize we live in a world that requires time to fix issues. Time that they are investing in the expansion to make the game better all-around.

To demand instant gratification because said issues hurt you, well, my response is "So what?"

-A class with issues telling a class with slightly less issues they need to be patient
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#52 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:45 PM

Probably because I realize we live in a world that requires time to fix issues. Time that they are investing in the expansion to make the game better all-around.

To demand instant gratification because said issues hurt you, well, my response is "So what?"

-A class with issues telling a class with slightly less issues they need to be patient


When the lead dev says that pets are fine that doesn't show that Blizzard needs real time. Kalgan didn't say "we're trying to determine how to properly scale pets so that they are not so easily killable and yet not impossible to kill." He said that pets are fine. Such a remark doesn't show "real time" fixing of an issue. It shows that Blizzard has lost touch with its own game in terms of high end competitive pvp.
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#53 wmd221

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:03 PM

Honestly I think pet scaling is a bad idea because its hard to find a realistic balance where they aren't invincible in lower brackets or too easy to kill in higher brackets.

Honestly I think it was a mistake to make warlocks "reliant" on their pets to begin with. Pets should be a bonus, much the same with hunters. Is a hunter pet a big part of a hunters arsenal? Yes. But the hunters pet dieing does not directly result in the hunter himself dieing as well.

I wouldn't be against changes like say.. Soul link reduces damage by 20%, as opposed to splitting the damage 80%/20%, or other small changes to that affect that don't drastically affect current game balance.

But for the people saying rogues can kill felhunters in 3 GCDs.... no. Maybe if I had full PvE gear, but rogues in pvp gear simply do not have anywhere near the front-loaded damage warriors or even hunters do.
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#54 Zerazar

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:05 PM

Because warlocks are completly useless in any line up.

oh wait

Druid/lock is one the strongest 2v2 comps

Just saying...

Of course you can ask for balance, but I have to side with the paladin and say that there are bigger problems with arena balance, and with WotLK around the corner we should be glad if Blizzard even cares to try and fix those.

I do think making warlock's pets scale as another player would make warlocks too powerful over-all. They'd be like all other casters early in expansion when melee scaling hasn't yet kicked in, and in late-expansion they won't lose their advantage; keeping them at top end of the bar.
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#55 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:10 PM

Anyone arguing that pets don't need to scale doesn't seem to realize that without a pet a lock might as well just take a seat and roll over.

And the only reason lock / druid is even viable at this point is because there's a druid on the team, the lock has nothing to do with it anymore. In almost any situation a druid playing with a lock is doing so because they like playing with the lock more than x melee or there are no good warriors / rogues on their realm they can get ahold of.

If Blizzard suddenly regressed s4 weapons to the damage of s1 weapons there would be a huge uproar from rogues / warriors / ret pallies / enhance shamans. Esentially this is a reality we have to deal with every day. Our gear gets better but the single most important part of our class does not.

Because warlocks are completly useless in any line up.

oh wait

Druid/lock is one the strongest 2v2 comps

Just saying...


Try playing a lock in 3s / 5s where the weakness are even more easily exploited. Ever played vs double melee or trifecta as a warlock? Please, if you have never been in our shoes since s2 don't even try and act like you know how the class functions now.

Edited by Kluian, 29 June 2008 - 06:12 PM.

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#56 Drake

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:19 PM

To be honest, imo pets are close to being balanced. I played :druid::warlock:2v2 and :druid::warlock::rogue:3v3 up to 2346 and 2200 respectively during S3.

Being dreamstate in 2s, Ive experienced many unhealable crit chains wrecking my partners pet mainly due to my lacking swiftmend. However, not being able to instagib the pet would have left many of the warriors rogues and hunters with no option to come out victorious.

Yeah, those T6 glaive rogues kinda own us pet or no pet, but thats a problem of the glaives in PvP, not pet balance. Warriors can be a problem, popping deathwish after cyclones and taunting the pet to make roots useless kinda gives me a hard time, but i dont see any problem with rogues instagibing a pet. They just dont pack enough burst damage. The only arena we lose (aside from unlucky losses) to warrior druid is BEM because its impossible to outmana the druid and the warrior just trains the pet for 30 minutes until he finally procs the crits to kill 2 pets within 15 minutes. With rogues, its more train the warlock game, so no more pet balance discussion here.

I think giving the pets 10% more survivability would be just enough. To prevent the lucky switch instagibs and nothing more. And btw, granting pets more survivability would only prolong mirror matches, which already last 20+ minutes unless the opposing druid is a complete idiot and i myself hate every match that lasts more than 10 minutes. Wondering why im playing with a warlock then, lol.

Edited by Drake, 29 June 2008 - 06:20 PM.
breaking the wall of text

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#57 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:23 PM

It brings a smile to my face that just about every reputable lock on this site says pets need to scale or at least have survivability adjusted in some way and so many others that don't even play the class come in here and say "nope you're wrong."
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#58 Slycast

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 06:48 PM

stop exaggerating, i have 2100ish ap and sap lock get on pet the pet sometimes isnt dead by the time sap is up, its nowhere near a consisten <5seconds, atleast for rogues


open on the pet lol the druid sees the sap and is ready to heal the pet... it probably has hots on it before you even start on it.

but yea, pets need to be scaled, my pet dies after 2-3 hits from sweeping strikes if it anywhere near me when im getting focused by a warrior in 2s
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#59 etherimp

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 07:13 PM

Not sure how you can insinuate that voids are weak.


A good Shatter combo, 1 round of warlock dots, or 6 seconds of focus fire from a hunter/warrior/rogue and the Voidwalker goes down easily..

9.7k hp with no resilience and about as much armor as a Warrior (10k?).. which equates to 48% PHYSICAL damage reduction, and NO spell damage reduction.

To put that into perspective, as a Warlock with Voidwalker out, I have >50% damage reduction.. Difference is I have 4k more health, ~490 resilience, a +20% healing buff, and Siphon life ticking in... And I STILL get my ass handed to me when I'm being trained by melee.

We're not asking for the world here, folks.. We're asking for *BETTER SCALING* and *SOME RESILIENCE/HIT RATING/PENETRATION FOR OUR PETS*.

By better scaling, we're talking maybe 20% more HP for our felhunter, which would bring him around the 8-8.5k HP Range.

If you saw a Level 70 player with 8.5k hp in a Battleground you would start drooling at the free HK.

Please stop acting like Warlocks are going to be LOLOLOVERPOWERED if our pets receive scaling. Especially in light of the current situation with Rogues.
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#60 etherimp

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 07:17 PM

Maybe pets were too powerful in the first place? Idk, but it's a little annoying that a pet can attack/silence/w/e you while its owner is completely disabled, and prevents healers from drinking with no effort from the player himself.



I'm sorry.. But you're just ignorant.

Here, I'll fix your post for you.

Maybe rogues were too powerful in the first place? Idk, but it's a little annoying that a Rogue can attack/silence/w/e you while his healer is completely disabled, and prevents your healer from drinking due to the extreme amount of unmitigated damage they put out in 1 stunlock which requires only the most minimal amount of effort.


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