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Tom Chilton - Pets are just fine


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#21 Auvvey

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:00 PM

This seems trivial to complain about when WotLK is on the horizon. They said something about pet talent trees for hunters, which is likely to solve the hunter issue. Some of the new demo talents look like they will provide much needed survivability.

But to be honest, this is an issue of perspective. I have seen warlocks who honestly think it would be balanced for their pet to require a minute of focusing to die. Well, the pet isn't a player. It needs to have a weakness because it inherently is added as a strength to the player.

Keeping voids strong against melee, and felhunters strong against casters is all that should be done. Giving felhunters lots of melee protection & voids spell protection would be a horrible, horrible mistake.
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#22 Wily

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:02 PM

If they can justify pets going after stealthers, I don't have any probs with them being squishy. However, you shouldn't be able to stick to a stealthed player - pet shouldn't bee a free ticket for that. Secondly, if they gave pets as much armor\hp that they couldn't be killed easily with 1 DPS vs. 1 Healer healing, it would be OP. They need to be killable, not as fast as now, but still it's not right if its undoable.

As long as they haunt you 'till you die, I'm fine with squishy pets.
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#23 Wily

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:05 PM

Keeping voids strong against melee, and felhunters strong against casters is all that should be done. Giving felhunters lots of melee protection & voids spell protection would be a horrible, horrible mistake.


This. Void's go down only vs crap healers, they got so much HP that a Dreamstate Druid for example, can't get it down fast enough for enemy healer to notice. 9/10 times it's just pet on 30% when enemy healer goes into "ohshit" mode and we get it down np. Felhunters are considered more squishy and they are attended much more, Void's on the other hand seldom seem like /petattack and forget.
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#24 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:06 PM

Yea what were they thinking, everyone was looking forward to unkillable god mode Warlocks :(


Guess that's why you play with a mace warrior right bro?

Imagine if casters were capable of halving your warriors effectiveness every match and he had to use an interuptable 6 second cast to get his lost abilites / ap whatever back. Essentially we have the choice of using a felhunter which eventually goes down to a warrior who has full rage and drops ms / hs / ww into it and lol 2k white crits and then we pull out the blueberry which is easily rootable and killable by the druid.

Locks dont want indesructable pets, merely pets that dont die SO FUCKING EASILY.
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#25 Auvvey

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:17 PM

Not sure how you can insinuate that voids are weak.
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#26 Terrify

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:21 PM

I started playing a mage recently after taking a 2-3 month break from WoW, and I killed a Felhunter in sub 4 seconds and it made me laugh out loud.


Yeah but I mean it must have been a terribly geared warlock, OH WAIT THEY'RE ALL THE SAME BECAUSE THEY DONT SCALE LOL.

Seriously though, I'm assuming some more changes are in store, but I just completely fail to see any justification AGAINST adding pet scaling such as resilience, hit, better stats, etc. Lots of justified argument for it, but theres a reason he didn't justify his position that pets were fine. Other than not playing a warlock himself.
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#27 DrunkHobo

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:24 PM

the new talent trees deep in demonology adds like 10% more scaling for those felguard inclined. hooray?

and i agree that pets are not fine because they are usually a single determining factor as to why i lose a 2v2 or 3v3 match
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#28 Pyrilus

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:34 PM

This is completely unacceptable.

They're in the dark.
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#29 Lysander

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:39 PM

Well.. Hunter pets are getting some sort of talent tree system, of which one tab will be tank-based, so we might see some survivability there. Then again, I would assume all Hunters would rather spec into the Utility tree, which I assume is where all the goodies like Nether Shock (pet Earthshock gogo) and Snatch (10 sec disarm from range :o) are.

Warlocks may get something similar.
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#30 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:46 PM

I can't even be optimistic about things planned in the expansion since I still have an entire season to either drudge through with weak pets (that will only get weaker once more people get their S4 weapons) or reroll a class that isn't reliant on something that is becoming more and more of a liability.
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#31 Kefilkefish

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:49 PM

My pet even dies to Rogues that CS-KS's =/

If they got Eviscerate keybound it hurts even more, or vanish-equip dagger-ambush
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#32 Nea

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:52 PM

Maybe pets were too powerful in the first place? Idk, but it's a little annoying that a pet can attack/silence/w/e you while its owner is completely disabled, and prevents healers from drinking with no effort from the player himself.
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#33 DrunkHobo

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:55 PM

talent trees for a felhunter dont make as much sense to me as to a hunter pet whos uses for pets is much more varied
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#34 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:55 PM

Maybe pets were too powerful in the first place? Idk, but it's a little annoying that a pet can attack/silence/w/e you while its owner is completely disabled, and prevents healers from drinking with no effort from the player himself.


It's also annoying that something we're completely reliant on can be so easily taken out of a game. It's to the point where if a warrior or rogue is on my pet I simply tell my partner not to bother healing it, I'll just cold summon a void because eventually the melee will kill it and it's just a huge sink for my druid.
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#35 silverbolt

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:57 PM

If they can justify pets going after stealthers, I don't have any probs with them being squishy. However, you shouldn't be able to stick to a stealthed player - pet shouldn't bee a free ticket for that. Secondly, if they gave pets as much armor\hp that they couldn't be killed easily with 1 DPS vs. 1 Healer healing, it would be OP. They need to be killable, not as fast as now, but still it's not right if its undoable.

As long as they haunt you 'till you die, I'm fine with squishy pets.


With that said they should also be healable with one dps one healer.
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#36 Barott

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 04:59 PM

Maybe pets were too powerful in the first place? Idk, but it's a little annoying that a pet can attack/silence/w/e you while its owner is completely disabled, and prevents healers from drinking with no effort from the player himself.


I wouldn't say they are too powerful. They were always killable. The issue is that with melee scaling, killing a pet has become a joke. It should be a viable strategy to train the pet, but it shouldn't have 100% success rate either.
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#37 DrunkHobo

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:01 PM

I wouldn't say they are too powerful. They were always killable. The issue is that with melee scaling, killing a pet has become a joke. It should be a viable strategy to train the pet, but it shouldn't have 100% success rate either.


i agree completely with this point
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#38 Auvvey

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:01 PM

The whole warlock "Oh man I'm totally screwed" really is weak. Everyone has had bad curves in balance, and you had your time in the sun during S1/S2. Paladins got slammed very hard at the end of S1, and I am probably the last person to complain about paladin issues; even though I know they exist.

Edited by Rapture, 29 June 2008 - 05:06 PM.
Removed blatantly inflammatory sarcasm.

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#39 Ultimecia

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:02 PM

Just to be clear to the none warlocks reading this:

We're not saying pets should be invincible, all we want is to have the chance to protect them and heal them as opposed to them being killed so quickly that we can't react at all (and hence usually winning the game). To that end, most of the warlocks feel that pets should receive some better scaling, namely a proportion or all of their master's resilience and some spell hit/pen to help with the absurd amount of spell lock resists (totally match changing in many cases).

"I'm in full s3 but my pet's in full greens" pretty much sums up their almost total lack of scaling which means they become a bigger and bigger liability as time goes on. As more and more people collect their season 4 weapons then I'm starting to think no competent healer/melee team is going to be beatable. What with all the double melee teams in 3v3 and triple melee in 5v5 that's going to leave double dps 2v2 for warlocks, as we can't blame druids for jumping ship and partnering with a warrior/rogue as the warlock/druid combo becomes weaker.
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#40 Kluian

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Posted 29 June 2008 - 05:04 PM

The argument that at one point we were in a good place and now we are not and as such should have to suffer is really poor. Why should we have to put up with a poorly designed class when melee only gets stronger as seasons go on. I don't understand how people can logically say "well you were fine two seasons ago so suck it up now." Why is that at all unreasonable that we demand balance throughout all of our time playing?
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