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#21 Kelberot

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:07 PM

Yes. Without CoP and Mind Harvest it becomes 13.5 sec CD. I mean, it's pretty well written on what it does, both the glyph and the talent, there shouldn't be any confusion regarding this.
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#22 Kelberot

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:09 PM

Mind Harvest does a lot for early pressure and it might even be necessary depending on what you're playing, but I don't think it's beneficial after a couple minutes in. Assuming you actually get 3 dps off different targets the whole game, that's an amazing DPS boost (and CC), but still you're not mind blasting who you want dead, which takes a bit away from going crit in the first place.
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#23 Barabzz

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:16 PM

Sooo, I want to know why multistrike? And are you going multistrike weapon enchant aswell?
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#24 Clamnesia

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:17 PM

Okay here is one just off the top of my head where it wouldn't be better and I can think of many more. Feral, rogue, and priest. And I know you are just dying to point out I'm wrong and that you get more price from resets and psycfiend but think of it like this, how long are those cooldowns? I'm not 100% sure off the top of my head but it's long enough to where if you didn't have the glyph you could get out SOO many more MBs and get even more orbs over time and letting you get mind blast root glyph to keep one of them off you time to time. Yeah a lot of classes might have pets and stuff to get extra procs but a lot of those you mentioned are cooldowns that are long enough to not matter because with the reduced cd you can get more orbs in the long run.


Cloak of shadows baseline - 1 minute (i believe the CD can be modified.)
Shadow reflection (Rogue mirror image) - 2 minutes
Shadow fiend / mind bender - 3 minutes / 1 minute
Spectral guise (dont know if it works on guise clone for sure) - 30 secs.

So, potentially, you have 3 baseline MBS that will give 3 orbs. Then you have another every minute or every time a rogue uses cloak, every time Guise is used (30 secs) every time fiend is uses (3 mins) and every time rogue image is used (2 mins) With single orb mind blasts filling in at every like 9 seconds or so. ***Correct me if im wrong*** MB base CD is 6 seconds right? I think the glyph adds 6 more seconds. and i think the CoP talents reduces 3 seconds. that puts the CD at 9 seconds.. and its instant cast and does decent damage. #worth imo, especially when you can fill the "empty globals" with dipels, poms, heals, etc.

You're correct, at this point im just arguing for the sake of playing Devil's advocate. But, it doesnt depreciate the point i'm making.

Also, at this point, im thinking that were talking about usefulness at higher tiers. Do you really think youre going to see feral rogue very high on the ladders?

Edit: Corrected myself. Base CD with no modification is 9 secs. oops.

Edited by Clamnesia, 01 December 2014 - 06:20 PM.

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Ya know, i was born in west philadelphia. I spent most of my days on the play ground. Usually i just be chillin, relaxin, trying to act cool by shooting some b-ball at school. But on this one, terrible, dreary, horrid day, a couple of guys that were certainly up to no good starting making trouble.. I was the first one of course to step up and fight them back. Because of this, my mom got scared and made me move in with my aunt and uncle in bel-air.

#25 catastrophiq1

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:20 PM

Like the guy said previously i thought multistrike was kinda garbage in pvp, not 100% sure though
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#26 Clamnesia

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:21 PM

Sooo, I want to know why multistrike? And are you going multistrike weapon enchant aswell?


Multistrike means dot ticks, mind spike, mind blast, DP, etc can multistrike? lol. Whats not to understand?
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Ya know, i was born in west philadelphia. I spent most of my days on the play ground. Usually i just be chillin, relaxin, trying to act cool by shooting some b-ball at school. But on this one, terrible, dreary, horrid day, a couple of guys that were certainly up to no good starting making trouble.. I was the first one of course to step up and fight them back. Because of this, my mom got scared and made me move in with my aunt and uncle in bel-air.

#27 Kansas

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:23 PM

Cloak of shadows baseline - 1 minute (i believe the CD can be modified.)
Shadow reflection (Rogue mirror image) - 2 minutes
Shadow fiend / mind bender - 3 minutes / 1 minute
Spectral guise (dont know if it works on guise clone for sure) - 30 secs.

So, potentially, you have 3 baseline MBS that will give 3 orbs. Then you have another every minute or every time a rogue uses cloak, every time Guise is used (30 secs) every time fiend is uses (3 mins) and every time rogue image is used (2 mins) With single orb mind blasts filling in at every like 9 seconds or so. ***Correct me if im wrong*** MB base CD is 6 seconds right? I think the glyph adds 6 more seconds. and i think the CoP talents reduces 3 seconds. that puts the CD at 9 seconds.. and its instant cast and does decent damage. #worth imo, especially when you can fill the "empty globals" with dipels, poms, heals, etc.

You're correct, at this point im just arguing for the sake of playing Devil's advocate. But, it doesnt depreciate the point i'm making.

Also, at this point, im thinking that were talking about usefulness at higher tiers. Do you really think youre going to see feral rogue very high on the ladders?


And you see every scenario you pointed out of borderline retarded. You are using all your time worrying about them popping guise and shit and them wasting a mb just to keep up with orbs which wastes your mb damage on nothing when your mb could literally be half it's cooldown so in one minute if you habe potentially 20 mb to about 10 ( very rough estimate) it doesn't matter if one of the 10 gave you 2 extra orbs or even if you got 3 or 4 it still doesn't add up and also wasting the damage for mb. It's impractical. Your theory is wrong I'm sorry.
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#28 Clamnesia

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:24 PM

Mind Harvest does a lot for early pressure and it might even be necessary depending on what you're playing, but I don't think it's beneficial after a couple minutes in. Assuming you actually get 3 dps off different targets the whole game, that's an amazing DPS boost (and CC), but still you're not mind blasting who you want dead, which takes a bit away from going crit in the first place.



Ehh you have a team.. Alot of times that mind blast could be better spent on 3 orbs for a PH than it would have been for a mind blast on the kill target. The damage if it doesnt crit is probably no worth the CC you could have put the healer in while youre rogue or your X continued doing damage free of heals.
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Ya know, i was born in west philadelphia. I spent most of my days on the play ground. Usually i just be chillin, relaxin, trying to act cool by shooting some b-ball at school. But on this one, terrible, dreary, horrid day, a couple of guys that were certainly up to no good starting making trouble.. I was the first one of course to step up and fight them back. Because of this, my mom got scared and made me move in with my aunt and uncle in bel-air.

#29 Clamnesia

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:26 PM

And you see every scenario you pointed out of borderline retarded. You are using all your time worrying about them popping guise and shit and them wasting a mb just to keep up with orbs which wastes your mb damage on nothing when your mb could literally be half it's cooldown so in one minute if you habe potentially 20 mb to about 10 ( very rough estimate) it doesn't matter if one of the 10 gave you 2 extra orbs or even if you got 3 or 4 it still doesn't add up and also wasting the damage for mb. It's impractical. Your theory is wrong I'm sorry.


Theory isnt wrong.. Maybe practicality is flawed though. =]

Nevertheless, i had fun discussing it. haha

Edited by Clamnesia, 01 December 2014 - 06:28 PM.

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Ya know, i was born in west philadelphia. I spent most of my days on the play ground. Usually i just be chillin, relaxin, trying to act cool by shooting some b-ball at school. But on this one, terrible, dreary, horrid day, a couple of guys that were certainly up to no good starting making trouble.. I was the first one of course to step up and fight them back. Because of this, my mom got scared and made me move in with my aunt and uncle in bel-air.

#30 Kansas

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:39 PM

Theory isnt wrong.. Maybe practicality is flawed though. =]

Nevertheless, i had fun discussing it. haha


Well maybe next time you should start out saying it's not practical before looking dumb.
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#31 xol3ti

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 08:38 PM

fucking virgins
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#32 Lexlutheran

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 08:56 PM

Youre using Clarity of power right? Did you take the CD reduction from it into consideration? =]


You're aware that Mind Blast with CoP is roughly a 5.5 second CD given current levels of haste available, right? Glyph of Mind Harvest pushes that close to 11 seconds, which is why Shadowy Insight is such a valuable talent if you're running the glyph. Personally, though, if I were running a DoT cleave comp I think Auspicious Spirits would edge out CoP. You do have an excruciatingly long CD on Mind Blast, but with crit stacked and a few SW: Pains up you're provided near limitless orbs anyway, and it feels like Insight procs just enough to off-set the long CD/cast time. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing how each build plays out during the season.
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Heard they was sleepin' on me.

#33 Surel

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 09:24 PM

Intressting read, never seen so many spriest pvp theorycraft theories ever before in any previous season, ill be going disc in the start of the season, maybe ill switch when i know for sure what atleast seems to be the most optimal way to go.
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#34 Meleriex

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 10:04 PM

You're aware that Mind Blast with CoP is roughly a 5.5 second CD given current levels of haste available, right? Glyph of Mind Harvest pushes that close to 11 seconds, which is why Shadowy Insight is such a valuable talent if you're running the glyph. Personally, though, if I were running a DoT cleave comp I think Auspicious Spirits would edge out CoP. You do have an excruciatingly long CD on Mind Blast, but with crit stacked and a few SW: Pains up you're provided near limitless orbs anyway, and it feels like Insight procs just enough to off-set the long CD/cast time. Either way I'm looking forward to seeing how each build plays out during the season.


im waiting for the values to come up on the gear to do this
im stacking crit now for what it is and its not nearly enough

also regarding this mind harvest/shadowy insight thing, i get it and even ran it earlier this month but i get shitty shadowy procs so i dont run it anymore, maybe more haste will help with this? i dunno.

power infusion+on demand trinket or power infusion+wep enchant proc is what i been doing, its nice for burst/spamming mind spike.

not really crazy about mind harvest for anything really, its nice in BGs/RBGs wheres theres tons of new targets to blast. my mb has a 9.9sec cd in this BG right now with 4pc and all the haste gear i could get, i think 9.9sec on your main orb generating/main nuke is to long in the arena, esp with all these melee train comps.
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#35 Disperse22

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:00 AM

Hey guys Sadstory here, I will be telling you what talents, glyphs, and stat priority I will use.

Talents:
- Spectral Guise
- Angelic Feather
- Surge of Darkness
- Psychic Scream
- Shadowy Insight
- Halo
- Clarity of Power

Surge of Darkness:
I like 'Surge of Darkness' still because you get alot of procs from your devouring plague and from vampiric touch, so in my opinion with the state of the game atm I want to have as many instants as possible. Insanity is not bad, but with the amount of melee in the game you'll have a hard time getting it off. With the stat priority I'm running, it's better to have 'Surge of Darkness'.

Halo:
The level 90 talents are pretty bad, so I would take halo it's not mana consuming and the other talents are just worse.

Clarity of Power:
This talent combined with the glyph (Glyph of Mind Harvest) is just so strong atm, I like to have instant mind blasts that give 3 orbs and if you keep track of which targets you haven't hit with mind blast you can keep it up for a long time. Also don't forget totems and pets generate 3 orbs too from being mind blasted. If you kill a pet and he resummons it you get another 3 orbs. Same goes for defensive abilities like 'Cloak of Shadows, Ice block, Divine Shield' There are probably other abilities that reset the 'Glyph of Mind Harvest'.

Major Glyphs:
- Glyph of Mind Harvest
- Glyph of Fade
- Glyph of Psychic Horror
- Glyph of Weakened Soul

'Glyph of Mind Harvest' is a must for the talent / stat priority I'm currently playing. The other 3 glyphs you can mess around with.

Stat Priority:
Intellect > Spell Power > Multistrike > Critical Strike > Haste > Versatility > Mastery.

My friend did the math, so don't blame me. I trust my friend and so should you lol.


If you have any other questions regarding Shadow Priest in WoD, you can just leave a comment or send me a private msg.


Glyph of Mind Harvest in arena? Why would you want such a long cooldown on Mind Blast, especially considering DP dmg is not what it was in MoP? DP literally does the same dmg as 1 MB instantly, and then 1 MB over its dot duration. The Mind blast root is really strong vs. all this faceroll melee, it procs fairly often due to the low CD on Mind Blast and the fact we can get roughly 15 percent crit with current gear. The root can save your ass when being tunnelled or allow your healer a little more leeway to CC instead of spam heal. Not to mention, you would be surprised how many times I've been able to get a kill on someone trying to LoS/kite and heal, all because of the root.

The consistent orb generation and dmg from having such a short CD on mind blast due to CoP(without Mind Harvest glyph) should not be ignored. You should still be able to get 3 orb PH off into fears, without glyph of Mind Harvest.

Multistrike is half effective in PvP. I tried out your stat priority, and the dmg seems like a wet noodle compared to mastery/haste and mastery/crit(this has the max dmg but is more glass cannon/unreliable and in 3s haste helps because you will need to offheal at times, and use globals constantly... especially for purging).

If you are running Glyph of Mind Harvest it makes sense why you are using Shadowy Insight, but with glyph of Mind Blast I think its a toss up between Twist of Fate and Shadowy Insight. Don't rule out Twist of Fate, it gets refreshed from your dots, and I've had a 15 percent dmg increase for 20+ seconds in arena before its crazy. All those games where people are just sitting at 35 percent range, and all you need is a tiny bit more dmg to x2 Sw:D...twist of fate is godlike in this situation. Especially since all melee run like retards and try and LOS/self heal to full.

Glyph of Restored Faith is situational in 3s, I do agree that vs. most melee cleaves it is probably not best to use it (unless you keep losing to them because they just tunnel you). Melee try and switch to healers in stuns a lot so having the ability to grip your teammate is stronger in 3s atm.

Glyph of Psychic Horror is good in 3s I agree.

Glyph of Fade is mehhhhhh but definitely should be used if you aren't using restored faith/mass dispel glyph.

If you are running with a DK or other comps where it won't be an issue with breaking CC, Glyph of Reflective Shield might actually be an option and the Reflective Shield actually does a good amount of dmg. If you don't believe me try it out in some skirmishes and then check your combat log.

Edited by Disperse22, 02 December 2014 - 01:04 AM.

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#36 Lolflay

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 02:12 AM

Talents:
- Spectral Guise
- Angelic Feather
- Surge of Darkness
- Psychic Scream
- Shadowy Insight
- Halo
- Clarity of Power


Power Infusion, everything else is cookie cutter and should be specced into.

Major Glyphs:
- Glyph of Mind Harvest
- Glyph of Fade
- Glyph of Psychic Horror
- Glyph of Weakened Soul


What kind of comp are you planning on running when you want to run with a Glyph that cuts your DPS in insane amounts ( Harvest ), and why would you want Psychic Horror when it lines up with Silence and Psychic Scream so nicely ? I would run Harvest only versus triple DPS comps where you need control right off the bat. Please don't let your experience in these shit pre-season skirmishes cloud your judgement.

Restored Faith seems pretty much mandatory at this point of time, you not even mentioning is kind of wierd. Delayed Coalescence, Weakened Soul, Mass Dispel, Mind Blast and Fade feel only other viable Glyph slot options.

Stat Priority:
Intellect > Spell Power > Multistrike > Critical Strike > Haste > Versatility > Mastery.

My friend did the math, so don't blame me. I trust my friend and so should you lol.


SP stat prio got changed 3 times during the past month and half, how recent were these calculations ? Also, PvE stat weights differ greatly from PvP stat weights. Multistrike/crit is insanely fun due to random "where the fuck did that damage come from" situations, which your entire setup seems to revolve around ( why though ? even without RNG our damage is simply insane ), however it's really inconsistent compared to something like Mastery/Haste. Mastery flat out increases your damage while haste reduces the casting time of your two spells that you actually need to cast ( VT+MF ), while lowering the cooldown of your main important spell. I reckon that in full S16 gear we'll have ~4.8 second cooldown on Mind Blast.

However it seems that Blizzard did in fact make it more easymode to gear for crit/multistrike than any other stat, I haven't done my calculations regarding gear choices yet so I'll refrain from stuffing my opinion down anyones throat until I'm 100% sure. It seems crit might win out by a large margin due to how many other beneficial stats are tied to pieces of gear with crit on it.haste and/or mastery gearing seems really fucking scarce, but anything less than 22-25% crit is not worth it at all, especially with all our spells being 150% crit scaling.
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#37 Ethug

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 03:21 AM

Basically if you're a mongoloid. Go with mind harvest, it will take you as far as you're going to go anyway. Although, I think a lot of the people using mind harvest don't realize how much damage they're losing out on their actual mind blasts, including orb generation. Reflective shield is good but I think weakened soul glyph might be just as good. Restored faith sucks dick because 9/10 I would rather grip a healer/teammate than use it for myself. Mind blast glyph is sometimes really amazing because roots are so strong right now. You can effectively stop damage if somebody is training you or your teammate. Also, you can happen to get a root on them when they're out of position.... Fade is good, obviously, 10% damage reduction. Although I think I might start playing around with horror glyph because horroring kill targets with 5 orbs up is awesome, it's basically like a stun, and because horror now shares dr with incapacitates, it sucks dick for cc.

Edited by Ethug, 02 December 2014 - 03:28 AM.

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#38 faction

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:00 AM

Multistrike means dot ticks, mind spike, mind blast, DP, etc can multistrike? lol. Whats not to understand?


but they can crit too for more benefit than multistrike
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#39 Emfrun

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 07:17 AM

I feel like a lot of people are sleeping on twist of fate, procs off pets.
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#40 Arancor

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 08:27 AM

The cooldown thing is actually pretty clear:

Base CD of Mind Blast: 9 sec
Clarity of Power: reduces Mind Blast CD by 3 seconds
Glyph of Mind Harvest: increases Mind Blast CD by 6 seconds

Thus:
Without anything: 9 sec CD
only CoP: 6 sec CD
only Glyph: 15 sec CD
Glyph + CoP: 12 sec CD

On top of that you have the effects of haste. Considering that you always want CoP for PvP, you always have twice the CD on Mind Blast if you take the glyph.
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