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New to DK Arenas: School Me

Death Knight Arenas PvP Frost

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#1 Tithonius

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:19 PM

Heya, brand new to these forums. Been lurking around most of today at work because I'm interested in taking arena's seriously this upcoming season, and I've been looking at advice/guides to help with that. I do have some questions about playing a DK in arena and I would appreciate any help and/or guidance. They're probably super nooby, but we all started somewhere, right?

What is the contrasts between Frost 2H and Frost Dual Wielding?

I've seen this question answered in a very basic manner which boils it down to Dual Wield being better for BGs and 2H being better for arenas/burst... How true is this? My current play-style is 2H Frost, focusing on burst strategies, but from reading around, it seems like burst strats can be easily countered?

Regarding Level 100 Talents, is Necrotic Plague even worth an afterthought?

I constantly read that Necrotic Plague is useless, but then there's always that one person that's saying "Well, actually, it can be good..." So, I'm a little confused about it. I understand the ramp up time combo'd with the low build up damage makes it pathetic DoT damage, but does the RP generation from being hit by enemies affected by NP worth mentioning at all? And, I know it can be dispelled, but do dispels only dispel one stack, or the entire thing altogether (ex: 7 stacks of NP dispelled entirely by one dispel)?

Is Frost even competitive when compared to Unholy?

I quite enjoy Frost, but I've enjoyed Unholy as well in other expansions. I see that Frost is viable in arenas, but is it competitive? I don't want to hold back my arena partners by playing a weak spec.

Speaking of viable specs... What about Blood?

I read that Blizz is trying to make tanks a viable spec in PvP in WoD. Can Blood be useful in an arena setting and compete?

What is Shadowcleave?

I see this word being thrown around here quite a lot, but I have no clue about what it is. Anyone care to elaborate?

There are guides for 3's... What about 2's?

I see a lot of guides for 3's arenas out there, but almost none for 2's... Is there a reason for this?

How do I prioritize targets in arenas?

Pretty straight forward; who should I be putting at the top of my "You need to die" list? I understand this changes based on the comp I'm facing, but is there a general rule to this?

Thank you ahead of time for any responses, I really appreciate any help given. Cheers!

Edit:
Thought of a new question! When using Icy Touch to dispel via the glyph, how does it choose which spell to dispel first? Is it the order of which the spell was applied to a target, or how long that buff has been on someone? This has always confused me.
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#2 Forumz

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:29 PM

Not a lot of time atm so I'll only adress a couple points, someone else can take the rest:

Is Frost even competitive when compared to Unholy?

Speaking of viable specs... What about Blood?

What is Shadowcleave?

There are guides for 3's... What about 2's?


- Frost is definitely viable this season, and stronger than Unholy in quite a few comps. Frost excells at bursting heavily, which makes it the ideal pick alongside another heavy burst class, preferably one who also brings a lot of CC (Think Frost Mage or Sublety Rogue).

- Blood's single target damage cannot rival Frost or Unholy, it's simply said much weaker. It's AoE pressure is definitely worth noting however. I could see it work in spread damage comps such as DK/Warlock/healer and DK/Moonkin/Healer. I don't think it will really be better in any situation however.

- Shadowcleave is the name people came up with for DK/Warlock/healer (usually Resto Shaman or Holy Paladin).

- 2v2 is incredibly straight forward and doesn't require a lot of thought, especially as a DK. Your job in a 2v2 setting is to... do damage and... some more damage. There's no real interesting gameplay involved and all you really do is tunnel a healer all game until he drops, or tunnel his DPS and switch every 30 seconds with Grip>Asphyx.

Edited by Forumz, 26 November 2014 - 07:29 PM.

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#3 BluBlu

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:50 PM

Target the enemy healer
Use your damage abilities until he dies
When you get CC'd use one of your trinkets
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#4 Tithonius

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:50 PM

Not a lot of time atm so I'll only adress a couple points, someone else can take the rest:

- Frost is definitely viable this season, and stronger than Unholy in quite a few comps. Frost excells at bursting heavily, which makes it the ideal pick alongside another heavy burst class, preferably one who also brings a lot of CC (Think Frost Mage or Sublety Rogue).

- Blood's single target damage cannot rival Frost or Unholy, it's simply said much weaker. It's AoE pressure is definitely worth noting however. I could see it work in spread damage comps such as DK/Warlock/healer and DK/Moonkin/Healer. I don't think it will really be better in any situation however.

- Shadowcleave is the name people came up with for DK/Warlock/healer (usually Resto Shaman or Holy Paladin).

- 2v2 is incredibly straight forward and doesn't require a lot of thought, especially as a DK. Your job in a 2v2 setting is to... do damage and... some more damage. There's no real interesting gameplay involved and all you really do is tunnel a healer all game until he drops, or tunnel his DPS and switch every 30 seconds with Grip>Asphyx.


Thank you for taking the time to respond!

Good to hear that about Frost. I'll work on improving, then, since it's the spec I most enjoy. My bro plays a gladiator warrior, so I'm not sure how viable Frost DK/Glad Warrior is, but we'll have to test around some.

Sad to hear that about Blood; would be neat to have more options.

So that's what Shadowcleave means! Thanks :)

Surely there's more to 2's than tunneling? Unless it really is that simple. If that is the case, I'll just tunnel harder, I spose'. Is 2 DPS in 2's unviable?
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#5 Losiro

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 09:19 PM

Warrior + DK + Healer is referred to as TSG and it is definitely viable, last season it was the comp of choice for a lot of DKs as whenever you played vs a resto shaman (which if you used certain websites that tell you what has queued in the last 10 minutes would be often) you could just tunnel it and you'd win 80%+ of the time.

2's for DK is mostly about tunneling and winning later in a match because our damage is a lot more than other classes on a single target, so with a healer you can expect to do very well. With the style of this season however you can expect ret + dk to be a good double dps comp, otherwise you basically run with a healer during dampening vs other teams with healers.

dual-wield frost is all about spread pressure and not really doing real damage to kill things, kinda like how I feel with unholy atm but 2 hand frost has a lot of burst that kills before 10 seconds of cc has gone through.

Frost DKs do very well at killing leather and cloth classes this season so those would be your top targets, if you play vs healing classes that you know you can just tunnel to the ground and win then that works as well. Basically finding out what strat works vs which comp after some time playing vs it and the respective classes and you'll have in your head a mental note of what the priority of killing things is.

Edited by Losiro, 26 November 2014 - 09:20 PM.

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#6 lagniappee

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 09:24 PM

Who even plays this game anymore? Necrotic strike is gone, rip.
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#7 Forumz

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 09:58 PM

Surely there's more to 2's than tunneling? Unless it really is that simple. If that is the case, I'll just tunnel harder, I spose'. Is 2 DPS in 2's unviable?


Sure, there can be more to 2v2, but only once you start playing against really good opponents. To get what most people aim for in 2v2, 2.200 achievement, you simply have to execute your tunneling strategy better than your enemies, and pump more damage than they do. Alternatively you can win some match-ups simply by playing an extremely lame strategy.

To give an example, previous season, DK/Healer vs Mage/Priest, how it usually plays out is the Mage and Priest chain CC your healer forever and he'll be unable to do much, so what you did was play Conversion AMS cd reduction camp blood presence and run around pillars all day until the dampening stacked to a point where it was impossible for that Priest to outheal even the most standard damage on his Mage, thus allowing you to win by basically doing nothing but run all game.

That's also why people generally don't take 2v2 serious.

Edit:
Thought of a new question! When using Icy Touch to dispel via the glyph, how does it choose which spell to dispel first? Is it the order of which the spell was applied to a target, or how long that buff has been on someone? This has always confused me.

It's completely random.

Edited by Forumz, 26 November 2014 - 10:20 PM.

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#8 Relentless

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 12:23 AM

Regarding Level 100 Talents, is Necrotic Plague even worth an afterthought?

I constantly read that Necrotic Plague is useless, but then there's always that one person that's saying "Well, actually, it can be good..." So, I'm a little confused about it. I understand the ramp up time combo'd with the low build up damage makes it pathetic DoT damage, but does the RP generation from being hit by enemies affected by NP worth mentioning at all? And, I know it can be dispelled, but do dispels only dispel one stack, or the entire thing altogether (ex: 7 stacks of NP dispelled entirely by one dispel)?

Is Frost even competitive when compared to Unholy?

I quite enjoy Frost, but I've enjoyed Unholy as well in other expansions. I see that Frost is viable in arenas, but is it competitive? I don't want to hold back my arena partners by playing a weak spec.


Necrotic is completely dispelled by one dispell, and to be honest because of that its not worth taking at the moment because the ramp up time means the spread it ticks for is much higher than just having normal blood / frost fever. And when it does get up to max stacks I've only seen 10k crits from it, whereas blood plague crits for 9ks, and can do potentially from the moment it goes on a target. Necrotic ticks faster (every 2 seconds) but then u get blood plague with frost fever as well so the total damage is pretty even between the two, which it really shouldn't be considering necrotic plague is our level 100 talent...

Frost is perfectly viable, and in some cases better than unholy. Play which ever you prefer :)
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#9 Maso-eu

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:20 PM

So what's the mindset behind DK in a pvp situation ? is it the same kind of playstyle like a rogue pooling energy for burst windows ? I haven't touched my dk since wotlk and i'm just curious cause to me the damage is retarded from start to finish (not to be compared with a feral)
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#10 Johnfollis

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 12:58 PM

Anyone wanna share the talent combos they are using as Frost DK? i look at the top 10 guys from last season and there is almost 0 consistency between all the guys specs
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#11 Grimwald

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 08:45 PM

You typical change your set up depending on what comp you're playing against anyways
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#12 Relentless

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Posted 04 December 2014 - 02:56 PM

You typical change your set up depending on what comp you're playing against anyways


A good example of this being queuing up with say breath of sindragosa as your "out of arena" talent, then matching a TSG in arena that you have played before who you know will train you. In this situation you may switch to defile, for the 10% dmg reduction.

Or switching from lichborne, to AMZ, vs a caster team with no fears.

Also can work with glyphs, i quite often switch out the presence swapping glyph (which should be in our presences by default but what ever) versus most teams , as i play with a ret i know they will train his ass.
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#13 lameboi13

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Posted 12 December 2014 - 06:26 PM

empowerment > presence swap glyph
imo from limited experience in 2s.

prob great for 3s tho
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