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Hunter Stat Valuation & Pet Guide [WoD]


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#41 loopyloops

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 04:57 AM

So many people on all the class forums say that crit is basically the same as multistrike, but with the addition of abilities like MW 2-set (20% less chance of your soothing mist target being crit) -- there might be other things that do this too -- is crit still really the same?
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#42 loopyloops

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 05:09 AM

Double post sorry.
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#43

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 06:12 PM

Does anyone know if Versatility affects your pets damage?
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#44 jidakra

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Posted 23 December 2014 - 07:03 PM

So many people on all the class forums say that crit is basically the same as multistrike, but with the addition of abilities like MW 2-set (20% less chance of your soothing mist target being crit) -- there might be other things that do this too -- is crit still really the same?


Good point. Stuff like RoS, barkskin with glyph, the setbonus you mentioned further devalue crit compared to multistrike. There is no ability or glyph or talent in the game, to my knowledge, that reduces a targets chance of being multistriked. This should be added in the OP to further drive the point home of MS>crit.
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#45 Tripsixhero

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 12:33 AM

I feel like I'm missing something. Most people I see that run an MS pet as SV/MM use a scorpid. But a Bird of Prey gives MS too, and also Versatility. Does exactly what the Scorpid does and more. Or maybe like I said I'm missing something.


Edit: Carrion bird is what I'm thinking of.
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#46 Thaya

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:04 AM

I feel like I'm missing something. Most people I see that run an MS pet as SV/MM use a scorpid. But a Bird of Prey gives MS too, and also Versatility. Does exactly what the Scorpid does and more. Or maybe like I said I'm missing something.


Edit: Carrion bird is what I'm thinking of.

It doesn't give Versatility
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#47 Keelinm1

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 01:49 AM

This is the most useful wow advice I've ever seen, wish there were more like it. Props OP
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#48 Adversa

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Posted 24 December 2014 - 02:36 AM

wait so the spirit beast gives 10% mastery?
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Posted 24 December 2014 - 06:48 PM

wait so the spirit beast gives 10% mastery?


http://www.wowhead.com/pets#0-3+1
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#50 Nogahn

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Posted 25 December 2014 - 07:57 PM

question.(im playing sv)

i'd like to buy the versatility waist since it gives me vers+crit (dunno how good versa is but feels good)
and the mastery one got haste which is kinda useless.

can anyone confirm versa>mastery
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Posted 25 December 2014 - 10:30 PM

Could someone explain please, why the value of a stat diminishes if I get it more and more, or if I have basic 15% chance of something. Thanks
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#52 Tripsixhero

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 03:24 AM

4 set even worth getting as SV? The offset pieces from Rep have a lot of Vers on it.
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#53 Airebis

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 05:21 AM

It's stated here that Versatility > Mastery, but armorying the top hunters on US, they enchant Mastery on their gear instead of Versatility. Is there a reason for this?
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#54 jidakra

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Posted 26 December 2014 - 01:22 PM

It's stated here that Versatility > Mastery, but armorying the top hunters on US, they enchant Mastery on their gear instead of Versatility. Is there a reason for this?


They are assuming that mastery affects more than 86% of their damage, which is a gross overestimate. The difference per 100 statpoints of versa vs mastery is 0.14% damage and they do the exact same thing. Unless 86% of your damage comes from elemental sources, versatility is flat-out better.
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#55 Kettu

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 02:30 AM

Did I miss it or are none of your posts/calculations taking into account the Enhanced Aimed Shot perk? This perk gives you 20 focus back on Aimed Shot crits. In terms of raw damage per shot, you're right that multistrike pulls ahead of crit, however the additional focus back from critting makes it worth more than multistrike in overall damage done.

Also I don't play a hunter

When you take both Enhanced Aimed Shot and Careful Aim into account, multistrike comes ahead of crit. If you want to value the Enhanced Aimed Shot perk, you should base your calculations on aimed shot costing (on average) 0,182 less focus per 100 crit rating. As in, if you increase your crit chance from 30% to 35%, on average the focus cost of your aimed shot drops from 44 to 43.

Kettu why do you place Crit over Haste as survival?

Based on sim with crit reduction applied it should be Agi > Vers > Mastery > Mult > Haste > Crit I think.

PvE simulations tend to overvalue haste in PvP situations. This is mostly because simulations assume you're able to turret the optimal PvE rotation for 5 minutes straight with zero gaps between shots, which is not possible in PvP. In addition to this, simulations tend to also be really inaccurate when it comes to haste values. A very small change in the amount of haste can sometimes change the value of haste from being the worst stat to being the best stat. Though, the PvE simulations are right, there's a chance of haste being better than crit in the optimal situation. But in practice crit is probably slightly stronger in most cases.

Also, I'm guessing the simulation you've made or looked at probably doesn't take into account the PvP set 2-piece bonus. Focus gained from 12 sec CD freezing trap is technically equivalent to a passive ~4 focus / sec regen, which greatly diminishes the value of the focus regen part of haste. Hopefully this clarified it a bit.

Does anyone know if Versatility affects your pets damage?

Yes, versatility (and every other stat, as well) increase your pet's damage.

4 set even worth getting as SV? The offset pieces from Rep have a lot of Vers on it.

Versatility & Multistrike chest + 4-piece set bonus is best for survival. Though, the damage difference compared to just going for 2 set-pieces
and 3 off-pieces is kind of marginal.
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#56 Tomie

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Posted 28 December 2014 - 03:31 AM

Kettu. I love you. Thanks for this.
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#57 Mattadoro

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 07:03 PM

hmm so as surv if the 4 set and 2 set 3 set is close in damage than wouldnt the 2/3 option end up better due to the versatility dmg reduction as the tipping point?
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#58 AvantOnline

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 10:57 PM

So SV Versatility>Mastery?
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#59 Kettu

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Posted 29 December 2014 - 11:29 PM

hmm so as surv if the 4 set and 2 set 3 set is close in damage than wouldnt the 2/3 option end up better due to the versatility dmg reduction as the tipping point?

It's basically a question of 1% damage reduction (3 off-pieces) vs higher burst and 0,2-0,4% more dps, depending on how high you value haste (1 off-piece).

On average 3 off-pieces do provide a higher amount worth of stats. However, if you have even a slight amount of skill with timing your explosive shots more often into the 10-20% extra damage zone instead of the 0-10% extra damage zone, the 4-set ends up being better even on spreadsheets.

There is also quite a lot of value involved in turning your damage more bursty in PvP, which spreadsheets and such don't show. As in, if there's 2 players both with a 100k hp pool, one doing 10k dps, hitting 10k once every second, and the other guy doing 10k dps, but hitting 100k once every 10 seconds, the spreadsheets say both do equal dps, whereas in reality the other player wins every game. Well, you get the general idea.

Turning your damage more bursty and having a chance for 18-20% extra damage on Lock and Load is worth more than the 1% damage reduction even for the average hunter in PvP.
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#60 qrimm

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Posted 30 December 2014 - 03:12 PM

Hey guys, If I were playing BM and going for the 4 piece set bonus.
Going by the following as state above by OP, Agility > Versality > Mastery > Multistrike > Crit > Haste.

Would I be better off to get the non set shoulders due to set bonus shoulders having haste and multistrike? And get the revered shoulders which give versa and mastery?

Just looking for some clarification.

Thanks :)
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