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Hunter Stat Valuation & Pet Guide [WoD]


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#181 Dills

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 08:59 PM

Thank you Dilly! Good game by the way Yesterday, you and Kubzy have some crazy good Synergy! : -)
Edit: also had a quick question for you bud, do you still feel the 690 PVE ring will still be best for MM? It's itemized perfectly, but it gets scaled down to 680 in instanced PVP.


Haha yeah dude good game, kubzy is definitely one of my favorite healers and I've loved playing a bunch of shit with him this season.

I actuallt think the pve ring is really good, but I still want to maybe check the math to make sure that the 680>690
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the only hunter i approve of is dillypoo. the remainder of hunters' existence offends me to my core. when i wake up, i am troubled that in some parts of the world, there are other humans who still partake in slavery, sex trafficking, and hunter playing on world of warcraft


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did you ever get round to taking it? It's actually the best free site i've found :)

Gonna take that as you flopped hard and couldn't get near my score with repeated tries :)


#182 Kettu

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 10:36 PM

1) getting chimera crits helps you out a lot more with consistent damage

2) crit is still good until you can get 50% (previously 40%) due to careful aimed on rapid fire

3) because of our 4set making every aimed shot reduce rapid fires cooldown by 5 seconds, and aimed shot crits giving back 20 focus, just random toth procs allowing you to hardcast a few more aimed shots is awesome (reduces downtime of having to cast steadies, therefore if those do crit it's awesome)

So basically crit will give you more consistent and controllable burst windows, which I think is a lot better.

Multistrike I think can give some nasty burst, and I think it's value will shoot up more when we have better levels of gear (later seasons), but I also think that even though it can potentially give higher burst during rapid fires, it's also a little riskier as well, and I feel that going crit is a lot more reliable, and gives you more windows where you can kill which is very important (especially because of trinkets getting buffed and chimera shot, it feels like you can spread out your damage modifiers now way more than before for kills where for a kill as MM you needed 3v1 cc, toth, full focus, crows, proc trinket and on use trinket up with rapid fire to secure kills, compared to now where in some situations you can actually space out crows, proc trinket etc, because your smaller windows can grant enough pressure - obviously your perfect scenario burst in openers is a lot crazier now though, hence why people have seen the lone wolf hpal jungle gibs lately (those gibs will stop happening I believe, because people will eventually understand that even though the damage is super gimmicky, if they just instantly pop defensives to counter the other teams all in, they'll be able to win pretty much immediately after since it's just an all or nothing strat).

But yeah outside of going off topic, I think crit is just really a lot more consistent than multistrike for Marksman.

Sounds like a bunch of horseshit to me, no offense. I'm not buying any of that.

1. I'm not sure you understand the term "consistent damage"
2. The question is which stat is better overall, crit or multistrike. Not whether crit feels good when your target has <80% hp.
3. That sounds extremely vague. To be precise, if you increase your crit chance from 30% to 35%, the average focus cost of your aimed shot drops from 44 to 43. It's pretty obvious you vastly overvalue this.
4. In what way is multistrike risky and crit reliable? I gave it some thought but it didn't make any sense. To me, both stats do the same thing, one crits for 130% dmg and the other for 150% dmg. Doesn't that kinda make multistrike more reliable, as it crits for a smaller amount but more often?

This is how I'd look at it:

When you don't take careful aim nor enhanced aimed shot into account, multistrike is superior to crit in every way, which is fairly simple to calculate (check post #24). Now, all you really have to do is compare the careful aim and enhanced aimed shot perks to figure which one has a bigger effect on multistrike vs crit.

Careful Aim = Crit is exponentially worse stat than multistrike during rapid fire or when target has > 80% hp

Enhanced Aimed Shot = the focus cost of your aimed shot drops by 1 per 550 crit rating

I simply don't see how dropping the average focus cost of your aimed shot by 1 or 2 can give you an increase in consistency nor burst which would outvalue the fact that during rapid fire or when your target has > 80% hp multistrike >>> crit.
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#183 sweep04

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Posted 25 February 2015 - 11:40 PM

Careful Aim = Crit is exponentially worse stat than multistrike during rapid fire or when target has > 80% hp


That's not really true. If you have 55% crit passive and they're above 80% HP it means that you will just always crit. 5% of your passive crit isn't doing anything during that time. That's not exponential. It just means that you've lost whatever you could convert that crit from into another stat (such as multistrike) in and get a flat damage buff from it.

The choice between Crit and Multistrike isn't really a big one. Take the one the PvE'ers say is more valuable, if there is a choice between 2 items with the only difference between them is x crit / multistrike.

We've not got enough crit to worry about boundary cases. Crit is still good, remember our mulistrikes can also crit. If the PvE numbers say that Multstrike is better, then it's simply better to just take it.
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#184 Thaya

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Posted 27 February 2015 - 09:52 AM

In PvE you used to stop stacking crit at 34%, and that number probably only went down with the patch.

I don't think we're at the ilvl where diminishing returns become a problem yet... Your logic is correct otherwise though.
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#185 Kettu

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 10:53 PM

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Anyone got the chance to test these bonuses in arena yet?

Does the 4-set bonus double your pet damage during bestial wrath or is it more like the dire beast talent?
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#186 TheGosuStandard

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Posted 08 March 2015 - 11:15 PM

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Anyone got the chance to test these bonuses in arena yet?

Does the 4-set bonus double your pet damage during bestial wrath or is it more like the dire beast talent?


Pretty certain PvE set pieces don't work in arena. Might in wPvP.
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#187 Thaya

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Posted 09 March 2015 - 02:45 AM

Set bonuses are disabled in PvE yep. The legendary ring proc is disabled as well.

They really made sure you don't want PvE gear this time. The stat layout being better on the highest ilvl shit is basically the only exception.
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#188 Apeliotes

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 05:03 AM

This thread needs more activity i like reading all the posts, also question.. to enchant mastery or versatility on off set peices for bM?
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#189 Dhorothy

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 04:27 PM

This thread needs more activity i like reading all the posts, also question.. to enchant mastery or versatility on off set peices for bM?


mastery
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#190 Mistr

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 05:12 PM

mastery


Isnt versatility better from kettux calulations?
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#191 Dhorothy

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 06:20 PM

Isnt versatility better from kettux calulations?


Don't think his calculations were updated after buff. I'm a firm follower of Thaya who has simmed Mastery to be far better.
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#192 Kettu

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Posted 11 March 2015 - 08:22 PM

The values were updated after the buff, but they don't take into account cornered & other pet bugs.

Versatility is in general better of an stat. I'd like to know how you guys simulate defensive stats. Simulations simply show which stats maximize your damage on recount, which isn't even what you should be aiming for in arena, even if you may feel that way.

Sure, mastery increases your damage more than versatility, 0,87% > 0,77%. With all the pet bugs & absurd crows damage and such, mastery is probably the best option at the moment. Tho, I'm guessing crows scaling with BM mastery is bound to get nerfed soon (or soon™). I don't think there's really any point in calculating the values right now, before things get fixed.
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#193 Thaya

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Posted 13 March 2015 - 08:03 AM

I posted my entire methodology and of course the only thing I sim for is raw damage output.

I think Mastery however will remain the stat to go for on enchants even if Cornered didn't exist at all. Crows scaling with BM mastery is intentional, I'm pretty sure (and Stampede is better in PvE anyway, there are no fights where you can get anywhere near enough Crows resets too make it worth it although that's possible in theory).

The reason is mostly in the way the stats and spec work. The entire benefit of mastery goes into your pet, whereas the benefit of versatility is spread between yourself and the pet. Even with your numbers, the entire 0.87% will be an increase you got through pets only but to your overall combined damage; the raw increase to the pet only is actually more than 1%, closer to 1.5%, of course varied depending on how much damage you're doing relatively to the pet. Compared to versatility, which is 0.77% increase, and probably translates into roughly 0.77% just for the pets themselves too (varied by the same factor). This is important to consider because one of the biggest advantages of the spec is in the fact that it's the pets delivering damage, not yourself, so you're still effectively doing like half your job as a damage dealer even while CCed, out of line of sight, or whatever the fuck else happens to you (even disconnect, lulz).

Of course, raw damage reduction might be more important depending on the matchups meta. You can simply carry an extra set of rings/neck/cloak with you with versatility enchants and switch to it if you feel like it will help vs some specific comps.
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#194 Shali

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Posted 20 April 2015 - 09:07 PM

So for non humans who use the PvP trinket with versatility, what second trinket would be best (as BM), the agi/use or the vers/proc one?
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#195 PinkMark

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 07:33 AM

Stat priority for SV in 6.2? mastery>multi?
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#196 kumarji

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 04:13 PM

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#197 kumarji

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 04:14 PM

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#198 kumarji

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 04:14 PM

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#199 kumarji

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 04:14 PM

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#200 kumarji

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 04:14 PM

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