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My Thoughts on MoP PvP and the direction of WoD

Talbadar MoP WoD Thoughts Changes

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#41 Ashleyirl

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 05:02 PM

a really thorough and great post ~ Thanks alot

I feel more excited than ever for WoD too with the arrival of a lot of legends (especially in EU) returning to the game which will increase the competition to another level yet again and make it even more exciting to play with and against them.

I also feel like there could be super variation in the comps that are viable and those which are not: - as a rogue, i feel almost every comp like rl/x, rm/x, rp/x is viable and will be super fun to play.

Right now, apart from the ice nova stuff, i also feel like after some great changes like the removal of blankets/deepfreeze as a kill mechanic, loads of the wizard cleaves prior to this that have been godly will no longer dominate the ladders completely that has been done in previous seasons and there will be a plethora of other fun/viable comps for all classes :)

+1

Edited by Ashleylol, 11 November 2014 - 05:04 PM.

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#42 Clamnesia

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 05:40 PM

a really thorough and great post ~ Thanks alot

I feel more excited than ever for WoD too with the arrival of a lot of legends (especially in EU) returning to the game which will increase the competition to another level yet again and make it even more exciting to play with and against them.

I also feel like there could be super variation in the comps that are viable and those which are not: - as a rogue, i feel almost every comp like rl/x, rm/x, rp/x is viable and will be super fun to play.

Right now, apart from the ice nova stuff, i also feel like after some great changes like the removal of blankets/deepfreeze as a kill mechanic, loads of the wizard cleaves prior to this that have been godly will no longer dominate the ladders completely that has been done in previous seasons and there will be a plethora of other fun/viable comps for all classes :)

+1


One can only hope / dream that you will be correct.
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#43 Melbyz

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:02 PM

I would like to point out that they have said that only feral druids would have faerie fire in wod, but then they forgot to revamp the faerie swarm talent and now claim it is working as intended.That is all.


It's a fair trade, having to choose between Typhoon, Mass Entanglement and Faerie Swarm. What they could do though is decrease the uptime on it to maybe 10 seconds, even though I think 15 is fair enough. Why should you be allowed to run for restealths without anyone being able to do anything about it? Secondly I don't understand why ferals should have Faerie Fire baseline so they can get Typhoon aswell they already got Skull Bash as an interrupt.
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#44 Razorx

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:03 PM

+1 Good post, actually looking forward to WOD, cant be worse the MOP....
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#45 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:04 PM

there will be a plethora of other fun/viable comps for all classes :)

for all melee classes yep, good luck if you are a caster :)

mage? rogue mage x (priest or druid)

ele? rogue ele x (priest or druid)

warlock? rogue warlock x, dk warlock x, boomkin warlock x (completely carried by the boomkin's damage + heals)

boomkin? as it stands atm, boomkin x x (must be fun playing a boomkin xD)

shadowpriest? rogue shadowpriest x, probably warrior shadowpriest x, other melee depends on how effective they are at peeling double melee teams which sit on the shadowpriest

yup, massive comp variation for casters there :) and almost completely rip casters in general when rogues get nerfed after the first month of season 16 due to the massive amount of complaints from the retard friendly player base on how overpowered a rogues toolkit is

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 11 November 2014 - 06:06 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#46 Elorxo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:06 PM

for all melee classes yep, good luck if you are a caster :)

mage? rogue mage x (priest or druid)

ele? rogue ele x (priest or druid)

warlock? rogue warlock x, dk warlock x, boomkin warlock x (completely carried by the boomkin's damage + heals)

boomkin? as it stands atm, boomkin x x (must be fun playing a boomkin xD)

shadowpriest? rogue shadowpriest x, probably warrior shadowpriest x, other melee depends on how effective they are at peeling double melee teams which sit on the shadowpriest

yup, massive comp variation for casters there :) and almost completely rip casters in general when rogues get nerfed after the first month of season 16 due to the massive amount of complaints from the retard friends player base on how overpowered a rogues toolkit is


are you ever positive?
wod is going to be much better than mop in most cases and you are still complaining
just fkin quit the game already if you hate it so much
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#47 Borngood

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:11 PM

Playing holy paladin in seasons 14 and 15 was the most frustrating experience I've ever had, not just for me, but for my friends who wanted to play with me. Balance changes for PvP need to be on at LEAST a monthly basis, Blizzard should take notes from other successful PvP games.

Edited by Borngood, 11 November 2014 - 06:38 PM.

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#48 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:19 PM

are you ever positive?
wod is going to be much better than mop in most cases and you are still complaining
just fkin quit the game already if you hate it so much

if there was something to be positive about for mage pvp in wod, i would be positive :)

at the moment once wod pve gets the wod pvp treatment to make it easier for idiots who are new to high level pve to get involved, ill probably end up re-evaluating why i play this game in the first place
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#49 Regent

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:06 PM

if there was something to be positive about for mage pvp in wod, i would be positive :)

at the moment once wod pve gets the wod pvp treatment to make it easier for idiots who are new to high level pve to get involved, ill probably end up re-evaluating why i play this game in the first place


God forbid mages aren't the most overpowered class for 4 weeks.
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#50 Prolifics

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:08 PM

Whoever was saying Dalaran arena needs to be removed and given the Ring of Valor treatment is spot on. That map has been in the pool for far too long for how shit it is.

Edited by Prolifics, 11 November 2014 - 07:08 PM.

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#51 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 07:13 PM

God forbid mages aren't the most overpowered class for 4 weeks.

an excellent post from someone who played double hunter holy pala in the first month of mop launch :)

nowhere in this thread have i said that casters need to be overpowered, what i would like is for my classes success in wod arena to not completely be dependant on the level of the rogue we are able to play with, especially when rogues have lots of other, better options available to them, and its almost guaranteed that rogues are going to be the most heavily nerfed class when balance fixes go out two months or so after season 16 starts

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 11 November 2014 - 07:19 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#52 Seu

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 08:28 PM

Amazing post, I honestly feel bad for needing it to remind me of a couple positives that MoP brought to the game ESPECIALLY with the new maps and PvP gear being BiS.

Holinka shoud hire talb to follow him around and dictate everything he does until he saves wow arena like brad pitt did with jonah hill in moneyball.

I came back to the last season of MoP after a long hiatus and really noticed that teamwork seemed to be more important than ever and individual skill seemed less important than ever, which some people could view as a plus or a minus. It is due to a mixture of the overall skill level of the ladder going up (i.e even 1600 priests death poly now) and the skill required to play most classes competently going down, but it felt like a really different dynamic. It didn't seem like you could grab any 3 good players and just steamroll everyone anymore, because if they didn't sync up they would fall over to less-skilled players with better synergy.

Naturally there were still a handful of comps that could be (and were) played to rank 1 without voice communication, but for the most part the big gamebreaking "plays" in the game were everyone on your team doing something at the same time rather than a counterspelled feldom or vanished blind or something.
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#53 Abidalzim

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 08:28 PM

I can agree with this. Wouldnt you say that at this point, the only person on the team whos position matters to an extreme whould be the healer? I feel like it used to be that NOONE on the team could over extend or get into a mongo position because they would instantly be swapped to and pressured.. now thats not the case as much.. You see everyone bouncing into enemy lines to do X but because of mobility and such they can just bounce right back out unharmed.

Yes, and even then less than it used to. But yeah, most caster have shitloads of mobility compared to wotlk. A boomkin in a bad spot or lock with port on cd? Dead in a bladestorm, but if we look now...

Boomkins and resto were given a low cd blink that also gives you sprint and they got stampeding roar, which can also give your teammates more mobility. Priest mobility was horrible, now they can invis and be on the other side of arena faster than a mounted paladin with aura masteried crusader aura. Every good lock used to be really careful about port cd and range, now you just lolgate, which can of course be used by your teammates as well (and it was 15 sec cd for fucks sake... at least its range and cd got nerfed by now). Hpaladins received a sprint, they can double freedom. Resto shamans can aoe freedom their teammates on a fairly short cd. At least mage mobility got toned down compared to s11 fire mages, that was horrible and impossible to fight against as certain classes (cough, enha insta proccing their sprint everytime). Etc, etc.

Point being, it's not only melee that received a lot of mobility cds, it's casters and healers as well and some of their mobility cds can also be given to melee, which makes the problem worse.

But there's also a lot of small little things that go unnoticed. For example feral charge being buffed from 30/15, to 28/14, to 15/15 in mop, or separating old feral charge into two gap closers, charge and kick. Or enhance sprint being buffed from being usable twice on a 3 min cd, to once on a 2 min cd, to being changed to a standalone skill usable once every minute. There was absolutely no need for that. :/

/rant, should still be better than MoP though.
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#54 pharrelle

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 08:31 PM

for all melee classes yep, good luck if you are a caster :)

mage? rogue mage x (priest or druid)

ele? rogue ele x (priest or druid)

warlock? rogue warlock x, dk warlock x, boomkin warlock x (completely carried by the boomkin's damage + heals)

boomkin? as it stands atm, boomkin x x (must be fun playing a boomkin xD)

shadowpriest? rogue shadowpriest x, probably warrior shadowpriest x, other melee depends on how effective they are at peeling double melee teams which sit on the shadowpriest

yup, massive comp variation for casters there :) and almost completely rip casters in general when rogues get nerfed after the first month of season 16 due to the massive amount of complaints from the retard friendly player base on how overpowered a rogues toolkit is

:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
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SKrRBu7.jpg


#55 Esiwdeer

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 08:33 PM

God forbid mages aren't the most overpowered class for 4 weeks.

lmao

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#56 Rowlsie

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 11:29 PM

Posted Image

Disagree, The more abilities you have to ultilize the faster paced, more fun, more interesting the gameplay is. Maybe some trimming was needed but not to the extent WoD has done it.

It's now.

Posted Image Posted Image

With no outs.

Charge no longer stunning takes depth from the class, as you can no longer charge casts, charge to stun, charge any player with a freedom (non of which where removed). Personally I can only see another season of caster dominance over warriors if this is the case. Depth has been removed, and the change of Stormbolt to the tier of Shockwave is overkill w/ no Charge stun / Heroic Leap nerf.

You say thought went into PvP design but it doesn't feel that way.

Posted Image Is my main filler as an Arms warrior. It's classed as an AoE ability. This means it doesn't kill totems from shamans. Druids mushrooms. Rogues can feint it, giving them a constant 40% shield wall to the majority of my damage. It can be used out of range of my target for some reason? Oh, and it instantly breaks any cc It's in range of, even if you're facing away from the CC'd player.

Posted Image Is such a DPS loss, and with it's rage eating stacking buff which ruins any kind of management you had/have, that falls of if you use a global for anything else, Arms warriors will be forced into having an AoE filler.

Rage is only generated from Auto attacks and charge, which is neither fun or reliable. It makes for boring gameplay with plenty of empty globals, and no on demand damage. I'm left 2-3 seconds at times waiting for an Auto attack to generate enough rage to press an ability, which even then could be breaking CC, or could be doing 40% less damage. Too much of our rotation has been forced into Col smash / Mortal strike, and with no reliable generator it fucking sucks to play.

Posted Image Being in stance for some abilties was re-added. However it's so dumb to add it into our main rotation, and even then the game changes stance for me? There is no thought behind me changing stances now. It auto does it on my abilities. / I can't taunt arena pets anymore as it puts me into defensive stance? PvE changes have made PvP arms very clunky to play.

Posted Image and Posted Image Don't deserve to DR. It funnels classes into playing few comps. Warriors can't play w/ Resto Druids and will struggle with some fear classes (priest healers) If anything deserved to change Posted Image should be Dring with fear. Without this change Lock/shaman will be as strong as ever, and Dotcleaves will still be very very strong.

My Worries with WoD

Why do Disc priests have a blanket? RMP / Has far to much instant CC on different drs (deep, gouge, blind, blanket, fear, cheap, kidnet, garrote)

Why are tank specs being forced into arena? Prot / Glad stance.

Unavoidable CC Is still in the game in full force, Freezing trap seems to have gotten even stronger. However I really don't believe WoD cut as much instant CC as we would like to think it has.

Rest I agree with and is well written. However I really don't think It's nearly as good as you're making it out to be, and I don't think Holinka has done nearly as much as he could, and It will never happen until competent PvPers are balancing the game.

Good post

(Also 2's was pretty decent last season if you excluded mages)


Agree Fear should DR with Hex over Clone, this change makes no sense to me, not that Druid/Lock teams were better than Lock/Shaman anyway. This change also hurts Priest teams, RIP Jungle/Shatterplay?

Edited by Rowlsie, 11 November 2014 - 11:30 PM.

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they say that a humans body is 60% water, well they are wrong because my body is 99% liquified fucking salt. I can't wait for this shit season to end so I can get my rank fucking one title and gladiator mount and fly around dogshield on my giant fucking primal gladiator's killing spree icon


what faggot voted 10+ min?

Seriously if some fucking LSD retard voted that shit I'm gonna cap a bitch.


#57 Svie

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 02:04 AM

Holinka shoud hire talb to follow him around and dictate everything he does until he saves wow arena like brad pitt did with jonah hill in moneyball.


You sir, made me giggle
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#58 Bluckstack

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 02:45 AM

He's been in contact with a lot of the top players and constantly looks for feedback to relay to help out.


Most of the players he has been in contact with are from US if not all, some of them not even playing the game anymore, EU needs to have a word aswell, in that way even tho i appreciate holinka's work something needs to be changed

Im wondering when will they fix the buffs to make comps something consistent, you couldnt play rld or wld or other comps as warlock without playing with a shaman in your team because of how strong mastery buff and spell is for warlock, that capped the healer setups A LOT, decreasing the amount of monk healers, paladins etc, and its not changing at all in WoD, i have some serious theory about how to make it work in order to not change the gameplay but to allow more comps to be played.

To be honest i miss to meet different comps with good variants of healers, im pretty sure most of the paladins, monks, rogues maybe holy priests etc know that feel aswell, the feel of having some really good comp to play but in the other hand to not have that many other options left

Edited by Bluckstack, 12 November 2014 - 02:58 AM.

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#59 HeyimJack

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 03:26 AM

Most of the players he has been in contact with are from US if not all, some of them not even playing the game anymore, EU needs to have a word aswell, in that way even tho i appreciate holinka's work something needs to be changed

Yeah he should get in touch with asia while he's at it !!!
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#60 Xonika

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 04:39 AM

Playing holy paladin in seasons 14 and 15 was the most frustrating experience I've ever had, not just for me, but for my friends who wanted to play with me. Balance changes for PvP need to be on at LEAST a monthly basis, Blizzard should take notes from other successful PvP games.

exactly, why would people play with my pala when they can just play with my sham, they were better 90% of the time. had nearly 3100 mmr as hpala boomie lock but partners just cba to play("just log sham, will be much easier") and left it at safe glad, games with shaman were 5mins long, games with pala were 3x as long but still winning vs the same retards
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