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rbgs have the highest skill cap


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#121 pizzaboii

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:39 AM

Eu swine country eat dirt
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#122 Rawrbertlol

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 06:04 AM

ok quality thread if I ever saw one
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#123 Braindance

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 06:25 AM

Eu swine country eat dirt

Harsh words from a pizza boi
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Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

If I had a gun with two bullets and I was in a room with Hitler, bin Laden, and you, I would shoot you twice.

bro you got +rep'd by rapture... 

 

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#124 Reflexyo

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 08:46 AM

You're basing your whole point on a casual player who is trying to get HotA/HotH,

nothing is more fun (to me atleast) than two top teams playing against each other, with a mutual respect to not exploit or cheat. Only these players play for the fun and excitement of RBGs, rather than CR or titles. Sure you get the occasional retard like Bailamos who decides to fly over the map because he genuinely cares about his CR.

Nothing better than playing without exploting xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

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#125 Sweatyfingrs

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 08:54 AM

Eu swine country eat dirt


rbg is love rbg is life
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#126 drzy

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:06 AM

Unseenzskì you are right, there is definitely more room to outplay and more to do to win an RBG game than 3v3. I feel like nobody with a brain would argue against that.

The problem is nobody gives a shit about them for many reasons;

-Rewards. Hero/HWL/GM are possessed by pretty much anyone that has ever tried seriously for them (mostly by people who try for Gladiator but get stuck at 2200 and proceed to RBG because they suck at arena and claim not to care later). There's no recognition for being the best RBG group besides bragging rights. You don't appear any better than some loony that scraped up Hero.

-Gimmick strats. Exploits aside i'm talking about stacking knockoffs and turtleing on z axis, AoE grips onto solar beams, stacking compositions to literally AoE teams down. And it seems easy to think "outplayed by team strategy" or whatever, but the best (and sometimes only) way to counter it is to use your own gimmick strats and then soon the RBG isn't even PvP it's just who can out gimmick the other team

-Exploits. Think gateway bugging as you get tunneled as an Rsham sucks? Imagine you are doing an RBG for money let's say, an organized money fight (since nobody gives a shit about the rewards and I couldn't think of a scenario where someone would give a shit if they win or lose) and one of your teammates gets death-gripped or feared into a corner/behind a wall where you can't get out. You're now down a guy THE ENTIRE BG. Does it happen EVERY time? No. Is it avoidable? Mostly yeah but it happens consistently enough to ruin 1/3 games at least. More if your team is retarded.

-Map bullshit. It seems every time one exploit gets fixed another pops up. One week we are seeing people fly over AB gates and cap nodes before the game starts, and another we are seeing people stacking mystery speed boosts to cap waterworks before opposing team gets to the river. Then you're fucked unless you ninja cap. There are way better examples people can point out but I can't think of them atm.

-General PvP imbalance. Same problem as Arenas or PvE to a further extent really but it affects RBGs. I read the mistweaver vs mage example earlier, but imagine if you're a Feral, Or a Ret or Enh. Serious groups would rather shit like knockoff posessing boomkin/eles or Hpals. You're fucked unless you get gear for a different spec. I was lucky enough to get in with Filo's group in S9 when Rets could replace a healer (when smokebomb/RoF were fucked) and run triple offense gimmicks (we were rank 3 US RBG S9).

-DDoS. Half the ladder of arena 3v3 is a lost cause. Let's not even consider how dogshit 5v5 is. 10v10 it's surely a huge problem. I can't account for this one because I haven't had a bad experience in RBG DDoS wise, but I see threads every day about RBG DDoS drama and can only imagine how bad it is by now when any 12 year old with his mom's credit card and internet access can hit people off.

Back in WotLK I was really excited for RBGs. I loved BGs and the competitiveness of arena and thought it was going to be amazing. In S9 it was. Unfortunately for reasons Jah said earlier, the best players no longer care about them simply because there is way too many gimmicks and too much bullshit to make them enjoyable. And the fact that goobers that can't hit 2200 in Arena can walk into RBGs and collect the TOP RBG rewards make them cringeworthy and a waste of time once you get your big RBG conquest cap & when you're fully geared in WoD.


tdlr; RBGs have way more for a player to do but are currently ruined by the scum community and exploits. They have too many variables to actually be competitive/police and no rewards to interest players that want to take it to the next level.

Edit: Forgot to mention queue times were absolutely awful even in RBG prime they are probably unbearable now


This post actually perfectly describes my thoughts on rBGs. Any game setting where almost half your team can be Affliction Warlocks is stupid.

The fact of the matter is, rBG's aren't ever going to be competitive again. Some people only play them for the title, and MOST people only play them to get geared quicker, then never touch them again. Look at all the cheating that went on in Season 15. I'm not even referring to DDoS here, look at how many Warlocks / MW Monks used honorbuddy scripts, and did way more damage output then normal players.

Yes, I'm sure there are a few teams that enjoy the "spirit of competition" but sadly, most people don't care anymore. I'd rather just queue my 50 wins, get 2400 or whatever and get my stupid title.
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#127 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

look at how many Warlocks / MW Monks used honorbuddy scripts, and did way more damage output then normal players.

this is a symptom of normal players being terrible at pve rotations due to lack of pve experience more then anything else
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#128 DjBenx

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

i don't care

never said i did

just ur 2.2 and hota in rbgs, fits the stereotype

and u played about the same amount of games as me last season lol


But....

I played some RBGs with you at the start of the season. It was about 2250 mmr, so at the time, it was quite high. This is when the rank 1 team was on 2400cr....

You were awful, literally, you went in with the attitude that RBG players are shit and that RBGs are easy. The only time you did damage was in Bloodstorm and you were never on target. Maybe you just weren't in the mood to play.

We won and then you left saying RBGs were boring.

But people go into RBGs with that mindset, how do they expect to enjoy it? I'm pretty sure that if you'd stayed and attempted to play properly and we'd faced Dayzar's team you would have enjoyed how competitive it was.

I also played a few games with Livin the rank 1 fire mage EU. He was completely fucking wank, literally, it was like a 9v10. He NEVER spoke, never called in-comings. He flat out REFUSED to play with ring - because apparently Frostjaw allowing him to deep something was more important. Sure, he is a great arena player. But he's completely fucking wank at rbgs. He then proceeded to call everyone shit and leave the group.

People don't think that RBGs are competitive because they think it's a damage check and a healing check. It's really not.

Don't get me wrong, I like both 3s and RBGs the same amount. I just think this prejudice against RBGs isn't really needed.



You say there's a stereo-typical RBG player. 2.2 3s - HotA RBG.
I say there's a stereo-typical Arena player. (in your case) Duelist in 3s - 2.1 in RBG and play it off that "RBGs are a joke, no one cares about them"*


*It goes all the way from Duelist to r1. It's at duelist you start seeing stuck up idiots who think they're better than everyone else.



Also RBGs are brilliant for making friends and meeting people. I hadn't really pvp'd before this season and didn't know anyone. I did some RBGs and I managed to get 2.5 in 3s as well as my HotA. Every RBG game I played at 2.4+mmr was more stressful than any arena game I played up to almost 2.7mmr. (well apart from one MLD on Blade's Edge)

Edited by DjBenx, 04 November 2014 - 09:17 AM.

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#129 DjBenx

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 09:19 AM

This post actually perfectly describes my thoughts on rBGs. Any game setting where almost half your team can be Affliction Warlocks is stupid.


Anything more than 2x warlock doesn't work unless it's WSG and even then landing kills is hard against competent healers.
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#130 Gigana

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:02 AM

I do feel that one of the problems of RBGs is that rewards haven't been updated. IMHO, Blizz should implement season-based titles (Prideful Hero of the Horde/Alliance) and at least give HotH/HotAs season(or at least expansion)-based recolors of the current 40 win mount. You know, promote participation.

Also, maybe it's just me being a casual scrub who plays for elite transmogs & red enchants, but S15 I pvp-ed semi-regularly and peaked at ~2230 in 3s and ~2280 in RBGs so this entire "2.2k arena = 2.5k RBG" sadly doesn't seem to apply to me. Hell, if hpala wasn't dogshit, I probably would've gone higher in arena than RBG. :D

Balance-wise, I found in RBGs at even moderately high ratings everyone played pretty much the same composition and almost every class had a valid role, so unlike arena there was simply no counter-comping. Sadly, the big balance problem of RBGs is the human racial, and you never feel it as much as when you play a healer against 7+ humans.

Gimmicky strats, I don't agree with. Why is 10 people combining solar beam & ring of frost with dmg cooldowns to wipe an entire team more gimmicky than wizards or KFC going ham while chaining instant-cast ranged cc? It's same shit, just with more people.

Edited by Gigana, 04 November 2014 - 10:03 AM.

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#131 drzy

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:23 AM

this is a symptom of normal players being terrible at pve rotations due to lack of pve experience more then anything else


You're dumb if you think that is why the scripts do more damage.
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#132 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:32 AM

You're dumb if you think that is why the scripts do more damage.

show me where a script in mop could outdamage a warlock in a top 80 world pve guild, or a warlock like walllirik with previous pve experience? :)

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 04 November 2014 - 10:33 AM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#133 Nogahn

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 10:37 AM

there is nothing more fun then winning an rbg vs an equaly good team
winning an arena game i just like meh... we won w/e i expect us to win
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#134 Smiteyqt

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 11:52 AM

  • RBGs and Arena are different brackets
  • Both Require skill / tactics at high rating
  • Arena games can be rewarding to win at high rating to achieve milestones
I have lead RBGs since S11, I have played with around 1000 people ( Skype list peaked at 700 contacts), I never had an RBG leader for a permanent team so I decided to become one, I lead my self from nothing and improved and managed to achieve hero multiple times, I don't deny in my "rbg carrier" that I have not dodged, But I have also spent the last season with over 600 games played and dodged maybe on 2-3 occasions against top end teams / DDOSers. The occasions I felt that my team was ready to compete against "top" teams we did win.. People started to dodge us when we started queuing, I que'd from mid afternoon until early evening before having to PVE, on some occasions we did que during the evening, From my point of view there was nothing more satisfying than being sniped by a team to then take a huge shit on them. I honestly believe there is nothing more fun than completive rbgs with the occasional low team that makes you giggle. I keep one screenshot from when I first started playing RBGs and its of me at 1600 mmr in S11 vs Genetics this is my reminder that whatever you do in game if you put the effort and learn something that you can improve and become better, I wouldn't change my team this season and look forward to playing with them again the most chill relaxed guys I have played with don't QQ over loses and this is why I think rbgs are better. Teamwork and long term synergy is what makes this game fun for me
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#135 HoodzL2Pretard

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 01:13 PM


oi this is one top lad m8 420 blaze it
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Edited by HoodzL2Pretard, 04 November 2014 - 01:14 PM.

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#136 sunzrooney

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:08 PM

i concur
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#137 Unseenz

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:53 PM

  • RBGs and Arena are different brackets
  • Both Require skill / tactics at high rating
  • Arena games can be rewarding to win at high rating to achieve milestones
I have lead RBGs since S11, I have played with around 1000 people ( Skype list peaked at 700 contacts), I never had an RBG leader for a permanent team so I decided to become one, I lead my self from nothing and improved and managed to achieve hero multiple times, I don't deny in my "rbg carrier" that I have not dodged, But I have also spent the last season with over 600 games played and dodged maybe on 2-3 occasions against top end teams / DDOSers. The occasions I felt that my team was ready to compete against "top" teams we did win.. People started to dodge us when we started queuing, I que'd from mid afternoon until early evening before having to PVE, on some occasions we did que during the evening, From my point of view there was nothing more satisfying than being sniped by a team to then take a huge shit on them. I honestly believe there is nothing more fun than completive rbgs with the occasional low team that makes you giggle. I keep one screenshot from when I first started playing RBGs and its of me at 1600 mmr in S11 vs Genetics this is my reminder that whatever you do in game if you put the effort and learn something that you can improve and become better, I wouldn't change my team this season and look forward to playing with them again the most chill relaxed guys I have played with don't QQ over loses and this is why I think rbgs are better. Teamwork and long term synergy is what makes this game fun for me

Very similar to my own experience! I'm glad you felt the same progression I did. When you learn to work well with your team, and all enjoy each others company, it feels just like any other team sport.

there is nothing more fun then winning an rbg vs an equaly good team
winning an arena game i just like meh... we won w/e i expect us to win


This pretty much. I barely played arena last season, but did fifty games of 5v5 as the most overpowered comp, and without making any huge mistakes found it almost impossible to lose. Of course, 3v3 is very different but you'll still go into games knowing you're going to win (godcomp vs monk, etc)
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#138 Esiwdeer

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:30 PM

This is such a stupid thread. Obviously RBGs have always actually taken less skill than arenas, you guys are talking about some theoretical RBG eSport which has never existed.

When real people played this game, Bailamos was a 45 minute wait for 6 points even if you only had 9 players. Shut the fuck up, stop namedropping people that have never even been legitimate Gladiators.

None of you are good and nobody cares about RBGs.
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#139 Hordii

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 03:39 PM

the amount of autism in this thread is crazy. Either barely anyone understands the meaning of the word skillcap or they are retarded.
Being skillcapped in a pvp situation is to interrupt the perfect thing every single time, and to cc the perfect person on the enemy team at the perfect time.
People talked about skillcap in 3s because in a 3v3 you can see which cast in the most important to interrupt, and which person would be perfect to cc when, so people could get "close" to skillcapped.
Do you really think people could do this vs 10 players? Keep track of cd's of 10 people and interrupt the perfect cast or cc the perfect person no matter which one of the 10 people it is? No. This probably wouldn't be humanly possible unlike in a 3v3.
The dramatic increase in players in RBGs makes the personal skillcap shoot through the roof, way higher than 3v3 could ever be.

I'm not saying anything about the skill of your average arena or rbg player, but it's blatently obvious that there is room to be better vs 10 people...

This is coming from someone who only does arena, doesn't really enjoy RBGs, and has common sense.

tl;dr stop referring to the skill it takes to get high rating as the "skillcap", it's a completely different meaning.
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#140 Swack

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 04:48 PM

  • RBGs and Arena are different brackets
  • Both Require skill / tactics at high rating
  • Arena games can be rewarding to win at high rating to achieve milestones
I have lead RBGs since S11, I have played with around 1000 people ( Skype list peaked at 700 contacts), I never had an RBG leader for a permanent team so I decided to become one, I lead my self from nothing and improved and managed to achieve hero multiple times, I don't deny in my "rbg carrier" that I have not dodged, But I have also spent the last season with over 600 games played and dodged maybe on 2-3 occasions against top end teams / DDOSers. The occasions I felt that my team was ready to compete against "top" teams we did win.. People started to dodge us when we started queuing, I que'd from mid afternoon until early evening before having to PVE, on some occasions we did que during the evening, From my point of view there was nothing more satisfying than being sniped by a team to then take a huge shit on them. I honestly believe there is nothing more fun than completive rbgs with the occasional low team that makes you giggle. I keep one screenshot from when I first started playing RBGs and its of me at 1600 mmr in S11 vs Genetics this is my reminder that whatever you do in game if you put the effort and learn something that you can improve and become better, I wouldn't change my team this season and look forward to playing with them again the most chill relaxed guys I have played with don't QQ over loses and this is why I think rbgs are better. Teamwork and long term synergy is what makes this game fun for me

You still dodged us, just like every other team :)

Edited by Swack, 04 November 2014 - 04:50 PM.

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