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Borngood's Holy Paladin PvP Guide Legion and (7.0.3)


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#21 Borngood

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 09:43 AM

How is the survivabilty on level 100? Now that instant WoG is gone i imagine us being trained to the ground pretty easily.



I will admit teams first answer to holy paladin at level 100 will be to try and tunnel them. From playing on beta, the game pace has slowed down just enough that there will be time to fake most teams interrupts. Also with our new level 100 talent Saved by the Light, you have even more time to get away, peeled from your teammates, or as stated earlier fake interrupts. If everything goes wrong and you're found to be in danger of dying, you have bubble and 1 (or 2) hand of protections with forbearance on a 30 second cooldown. I will mention that with the glyph of Hand of Freedom, you can reduce a 7.5 second rogue opener to something like around 5.5 seconds. People will find out pretty quick just what it means to train a paladin next season.
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#22 Derivative40

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 09:45 AM

Good read, I like it

I've had my share of testing on beta and i agree with that Hpally is definitely going to be stronger, perhaps one of the best healers due to Saved by the Light

Also, the new denounce mechanic is really fun for any of you Hpallys that haven't had a chance to try beta. I can definitely see the denounce glyph stationary if our 2 piece stays the same.

@Splotch At 100 any melee cleave can tear apart a healer without peels. Cycling through CDS is still important even though from first impressions we only have Avenging Wrath. For example...

1) Divine Protection with Unbreakable Spirit if you know that you perhaps be targeted a lot.
2) Glyph of Hand of Freedom will be really good like Borngood said earlier
3) Freedom/Speed of light away behind LOS/safe area
4) Biggest thing I think will be keeping track of Saved by the Light on ourself/teammates. This cooldown will be crucial to keep track of so overlapping cooldowns doesn't occur
5) Divine Shield, good ole bubble

Overall I think paladins have a lot to work with. Toss in peels from teammates and I think our Survivability is really good at 100
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#23 Borngood

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 09:52 AM

Good post derivative, I barely beat you to it =P
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#24 Disperse22

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 10:01 AM

Really thorough guide nice
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#25 Kappadin

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Posted 03 November 2014 - 06:33 PM

Good guide :paladin:
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#26 justchecking

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Posted 04 November 2014 - 02:37 AM

Posted Image
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Edit: oh yeh nice guide friend :)

Edited by justchecking, 04 November 2014 - 02:37 AM.

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#27 Lamme

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 12:39 PM

Good post, makes me want to respec back to Holy again. Hoping to see some sort of a "return of the holy paladins" next season.
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#28 Juther

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 11:53 PM

Tank you again For the guide, Borngood.

Do you Have Any "must have" addon to suggest?
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#29 Borngood

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Posted 07 November 2014 - 05:52 PM

@Juther I suggest using: Interrupt Bar 2 and Gladius for sure at least. If you find anything else you like to track interrupts or DR's feel free to use them instead.

Edited by Borngood, 07 November 2014 - 05:52 PM.

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#30 Odrareg

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 05:35 AM

Very nice guide, honestly helped me realize quite a bit of things.

However, believe me dude, the lack of instant casts has hurt my feelings so much that I had to find a way to get some instants from somewhere.

I tried the forgotten JUDGMENT spec:
1) 45% speed on each judg (3-4 sec CD? also maybe reduced by haste? Saw you prioritized haste in stats as well!)
2) Flash of Light can become instant and atleast now during the prepatch, it's like an NS greater healing wave, 0% -> 100%.
3) 50% slow judgement glyph.

These 3 work like a charm!

Something I have to point out:
1) Glyph of flash of light is really damn obsolete too
2) I have to confirm Holy Avenger feels kind of...useless...probably replaced by the avenging wrath talent+glyph with a far better outcome.


And last but not least, why do you feel Speed of Light is a MUST? With the judgment spec, I think there's no point in having that. However let's say we all use Sacred shield (opens up 1 more glyph slot because you won't use the 50% judgement slow) thus making the judgement speed talent useless; we have all noticed that holy power is almost unusable (I constantly sit at 3+)..what about the 15% perma speed and 5+5+5? I think we could easily get a 30% permanent speed buff!

So right now the playstyles / specs I'd take into consideration are:

1- Heavy judgment spec = 45% speed on each judgment (very short cd) + instant flash of lights (they heal so much!) + 50% slow on whoever you want...it is EXTREMELY powerful, trust me. Only problem is that the 50% slow is exclusive with the +10 yards glyph; a bit of a hard decision.

2- Sacred Shield + 30% permanent run speed.

We can all agree that any kind of playstyle should prioritise the avenging wrath glyphs/talent though, that's for sure.


All in all, there's so many choices that can be made. My brain is exploding, it really feels that we will have to change glyphs everytime we face a particular combo. Too bad this opens up so many wrong choices as an RMP might not really tunnel you all the time :)

What do you think?
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#31 Borngood

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 06:35 AM

A common misconception is that holy power will not matter, it will definitely matter at level 100. Sure you could get away with sitting on holy power in shorter games, but if you really want to come out ahead of other healers, managing holy power to stay ahead on mana will be important. Yea you could ignore holy power and go for drinks, but why drink at all when you can out mana other healers in dampening by a mile. I can compare mana to the levels of early season 9, where probably 20% of games end by mana automatically.

The judgment route is really awkward, if I have time to cast judgment at a 30 yard range, my buff from selfless healer will most likely fall off during a cc chain. Sacred shield is more consistent and cannot be purged/dispelled, while selfless healer can be purged. A good team will keep you clean throughout the game.

A quick note/update, glyph of devotion aura will be a solid pick against double wizard teams. Until I do some major play testing, it's hard to to tell if shorter cd devotion aura, or shorter cd avenging wrath is a better pick against wizards, I think it is very close.

Edited by Borngood, 09 November 2014 - 06:56 AM.

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#32 justchecking

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 06:38 AM

I'm no paladin by any means but it sounds good in theory though I think the fact that it is much easier to maintain up-time on sacred shield vs judging on cool down makes sacred shield superior? I mean say you sit a full sheep that's 2 judgement's you miss out on, and using a buffed flash heal might be more than required a lot of the time, meaning it might force you to sit on 3 stacks for when you really need them. This would obviously mean not flash of lighting when it isn't necessary, and resulting in either holy shock or going back to casting (what you were trying to avoid).

Paladin's are also susceptible to cc as we know in comparison to other healers and the passive mitigation SS provides is so strong when we are cc'd.

Edited by justchecking, 09 November 2014 - 06:41 AM.

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#33 Borngood

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 06:45 AM

Yup, sacred shield I think is just more solid for all those reasons.
1) Consistent
2) Cannot be purged
3) Way easier to manage
4) Healing during cc chains, we do not need more healing when we're able to cast.

Something else I want to point out, If you can live against assassination rogue/frost mage at level 100, that is pretty much the benchmark for burst damage from what I've seen so far.

Edited by Borngood, 09 November 2014 - 06:59 AM.

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#34 lehel

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 11:01 AM

Assassination making a comeback?
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#35 Derivative40

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Posted 09 November 2014 - 12:11 PM

The judgement spec in my mind will never be viable, especially if your getting trained. Using globals casting judgement then casting FoL. You also have to keep in mind that using your judgement stack isn't a 100% sure done deal. You could be cc'd before you get the next global off to save your teammate or yourself. From my point of view its sacred shield all the way.

I'm interested to see what rbgs are like at 100 tho. I think eternal flame might have a spot there. If mana is truly going to be something that we can't ignore at level 100 I think eternal flame will be valuable. Then again casting is going to be a problem in rbgs for hpallys because I'm sure we will be target #1 at 100 for most teams. Only time will tell.
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#36 justchecking

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 09:06 AM

Few questions:

With saved by the light, do you know say for example a team mate is at 20% and they come off cool down for the shield will it proc on them if they have beacon on them/you put it on them?

Also you sure merciful wrath will be the first talent to be changed? As you said, without the glyph wings is stupidly strong but on a relatively long cool down, I feel like it's super strong with the glyph. Maybe denounce glyph is less valuable?

Edited by justchecking, 12 November 2014 - 09:08 AM.

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#37 DerpiousMaximus

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 10:00 AM

Great guide!
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#38 Borngood

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 05:45 PM

Saved by the Light WILL proc if they are below 30% hp when it comes off cooldown, like how nature's guardian works for shamans. It is easily tracked by you and your opponents because it's shown as a debuff.

I believe glyphs of beacon and denounce are extremely important, at least for my play, so replacing merciful wrath with glyphs such as freedom reducing cc duration, or physical shield wall will probably happen. I think beacon is mandatory because wasting a whole global on beacon is really slow. Denounce steals crit, so being able to cast it instantly while being trained is SO important, I cannot stress this enough.

Edited by Borngood, 12 November 2014 - 05:50 PM.

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#39 irubuwrongtime

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:09 PM

Nice guide even for non paladin player like me. Good read. + Rep
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#40 justchecking

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 09:59 PM

Saved by the Light WILL proc if they are below 30% hp when it comes off cooldown, like how nature's guardian works for shamans. It is easily tracked by you and your opponents because it's shown as a debuff.

I believe glyphs of beacon and denounce are extremely important, at least for my play, so replacing merciful wrath with glyphs such as freedom reducing cc duration, or physical shield wall will probably happen. I think beacon is mandatory because wasting a whole global on beacon is really slow. Denounce steals crit, so being able to cast it instantly while being trained is SO important, I cannot stress this enough.


Ah yeah sorry I forgot the glyph makes it instant and its one of our set bonus's that gives us the crit. Making it instant will be so good vs rogue mage but I guess against teams that won't crit (reliably), say for example an Scleave that's where it would be one of the first to go?
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