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#41 Sizurex

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:02 AM

playing 2's warrior / enh vs mage priest warrior cross cc's mage for me to get a hex jk blink cs me locked out for 6 seconds can only use stormstrike / ll in 6 seconds

try to recast hex priest silence -.-

Edited by Sizurex, 18 October 2014 - 01:04 AM.

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#42 Mageic

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:17 AM

How is it all of the sudden that rogues have 'too much cc', they have same stun lock tools as they had in previous expansion, minus paralytic poison?
You can still run melee/caster/healer comps if you want to have good cc rotation/peels.The fact that they merged fear and poly DR categories with other DR categories has nothing to do with it, this just hurts wizard cleaves that were abusing dispel cd.(you know, standing in one spot sitting on your fear/poly button for arena 123, being a cool kid). Picture below demonstrates an average mage/lock player, during last season, "casting" poly/fear:
Posted Image


Rogues have always had too much CC throughout mop. You realize it's basically impossible to cast a spell with a rogue on you right? In the past every caster had to basically opt out of using casted spells and only use instants while a rogue was on them, or open up space with instant CC and a large amount of that has been removed. The gaps you created in previous expansions also allowed you to kill things in smaller windows, and it's honestly not so bad in the current state at 90 but once you reach 100 you'll want to log out anytime a rogue attacks you.

At level 100 the game is so much slower that a rogue never has to run away and simply attacking a caster keeps that player out of the game longer than having chanimals mash fear on you during MoP. The small windows you can make with CC on the rogue won't get you even close to a kill, once they break the CC they'll just continue to attack you and shut you out of the game for another 2 minutes. Burst of speed is a huge part of the problem but not the entire problem. With blanket silence removed from many classes the silence DR is a much more valuable addition the rogue brings to teams and they can use it much more often than their priest counterpart.

The removal of some caster CC is great but people can't act like melee never had any, they need to remember that those crazy amount of CCs were originally added to compete in the arms race of interrupts melee had added to them.
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#43 mirox

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:37 AM

Rogues have always had too much CC throughout mop. You realize it's basically impossible to cast a spell with a rogue on you right? In the past every caster had to basically opt out of using casted spells and only use instants while a rogue was on them, or open up space with instant CC and a large amount of that has been removed. The gaps you created in previous expansions also allowed you to kill things in smaller windows, and it's honestly not so bad in the current state at 90 but once you reach 100 you'll want to log out anytime a rogue attacks you.

At level 100 the game is so much slower that a rogue never has to run away and simply attacking a caster keeps that player out of the game longer than having chanimals mash fear on you during MoP. The small windows you can make with CC on the rogue won't get you even close to a kill, once they break the CC they'll just continue to attack you and shut you out of the game for another 2 minutes. Burst of speed is a huge part of the problem but not the entire problem. With blanket silence removed from many classes the silence DR is a much more valuable addition the rogue brings to teams and they can use it much more often than their priest counterpart.

The removal of some caster CC is great but people can't act like melee never had any, they need to remember that those crazy amount of CCs were originally added to compete in the arms race of interrupts melee had added to them.


I dont know about level 100, but as it is now and how it was in mop is basically the same from rogue pov. In fact, its same stun lock that existed in cataclysm and even wotlk + tbc (which was even longer). Now, game changed a lot in each of those expansions, yet rogue teams could never really compete on tournament level with other comps. Why ? Simply because rogue damage and play style is just way to easy to predict and keep in check. Sure, it might be frustrating to play against when you get locked down forever,but does it really matter if your team wins in the end? Look at EU and US regionals, did rogue stunlock matter in the end? I dont know if its just rogues being bad players, or its just bad luck that they never come on top, regardless of how unbalanced people make them to be.
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#44 mirox

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:42 AM

Because everyone else lost their CC/control/utility, while Rogues still have the same (and DKs and Ferals), not to mention Feint, Recup, new Vanish, CoS, Garrote, Kidney, Cheap Shot, Burst of Speed etc.

A Rogue literally solos me while my healer is in Sap/Blind.

Please don't be a biased Rogue, I've held you to a higher standard.

Edit: The entire MoP was like a Cold War, except it turned into an actual war. Give every class everything and now in WoD almost all classes lost their shit that they gained during the armament, but Rogues retained theirs. Rogues need to lose some of their utility/control/damage/something. They have too much of it compared to other classes.

Yes, because the game is really balanced right now :) I logged in on patch day,specced into nightstalker, waited for trinket procs and did 56k evisc crits, basically deleted people from arena. It was like if they typed /afk. Its not going to be like that at level 100, it already isnt with 25% overall damage reduction.
What did rogues get to keep? S Blades/paralytic/mindnumbing/shadow walk/ subterfuge/ gone. Burst of speed is still good for kiting, completely shit for actually trying to get to someone while trying to do damage (doubled energy cost).
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#45 ysnakewoo

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:50 AM

Yes, because the game is really balanced right now :) I logged in on patch day,specced into nightstalker, waited for trinket procs and did 56k evisc crits, basically deleted people from arena. It was like if they typed /afk. Its not going to be like that at level 100, it already isnt with 25% overall damage reduction.
What did rogues get to keep? S Blades/paralytic/mindnumbing/shadow walk/ subterfuge/ gone. Burst of speed is still good for kiting, completely shit for actually trying to get to someone while trying to do damage (doubled energy cost).


It's not balanced, it's not tuned, and we all understand that. However, everyone can see that a Rogue has too much of everything at their disposal. That's the main problem.
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#46 zzatbrah

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 01:57 AM

I dont know about level 100, but as it is now and how it was in mop is basically the same from rogue pov. In fact, its same stun lock that existed in cataclysm and even wotlk + tbc (which was even longer). Now, game changed a lot in each of those expansions, yet rogue teams could never really compete on tournament level with other comps. Why ? Simply because rogue damage and play style is just way to easy to predict and keep in check. Sure, it might be frustrating to play against when you get locked down forever,but does it really matter if your team wins in the end? Look at EU and US regionals, did rogue stunlock matter in the end? I dont know if its just rogues being bad players, or its just bad luck that they never come on top, regardless of how unbalanced people make them to be.

playing on ladder and playing for money bring out two completely playstyles.
nobody will play as safe as when money is on the line.
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#47 mirox

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:16 AM

It's not balanced, it's not tuned, and we all understand that. However, everyone can see that a Rogue has too much of everything at their disposal. That's the main problem.

As I said, everyone lost certain abilities, rogues did too.I dont really see what you mean by 'too much of everything'. Rogue damage at the moment is as same as everyone else's (taking into the consideration that it takes more setup than any other class) + its easiest to stop (as always).Survivability in a bursty environment like this was always a problem and rogues do die in stuns. And finally , rogue control didn't change, it even got nerfed by removing para poison and increased cost on burst of speed by 100%. Only thing that is retarded is the fact that combo points are on the rogue now, instead of being on the target, so you can kidneyshot/swap or peel way easier then you could have done before this patch. I, personally, don't like retarded changes like this that dumb down the class when it comes down to combo points generation and management, but I cannot really do anything about it.This game being designed in a 'new gamer-friendly' way since cataclysm: trap launcher, suberfuge, vanish, instant dots and instant cc, usable while stunned and silenced abilities etc...

playing on ladder and playing for money bring out two completely playstyles.
nobody will play as safe as when money is on the line.

I just mentioned tournament environment as an example. Same rules apply to high rated arena play...
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#48 Sosseri

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:46 AM

and please remove demo.


NO WALLRIKZ, FUCK OFF. LET ME ENJOY IT.

Edited by Sosseri, 18 October 2014 - 02:51 AM.

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Posted ImagePosted Image

#49 spelgubbe

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 02:50 AM

loved the rogue/priest mirror with a 1500 rogue on my side, and the 64% dampening
also double shaman to 82% dampening was also fun

btw because of really high mastery numbers rogues are insane at the moment, but they still can't kill healers it seems? I guess healers are even more broken

Edited by spelgubbe, 18 October 2014 - 02:56 AM.

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Fixed an issue during the Murozond encounter that could affect Death Knights and cause their Anti-Magic Shell ability to go on a slightly longer than intended 12-day cooldown.

#50 Wallirik

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:18 AM

NO WALLRIKZ, FUCK OFF. LET ME ENJOY IT.

if you enjoy that playstyle you should kill yourself asap
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#51 Siuox

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:27 AM

you were able to kite a rogue in tbc but this is not possible anymore due to burst of speed. burst of speed is as stupid as hotw / lifeswap / spirit link imo
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#52 HeyimJack

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 03:35 AM

if you enjoy that playstyle you should kill yourself asap

Yeah cause affliction playstyle is sooo much better.
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88c809889bca995b4fb7f643cda2eb4f.png


#53 Cutebaby

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 04:11 AM

Guys, dont' worry, just put up 45 euros for the expansion. I'm sure it will fix everything.
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#54 akatyrone

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 06:36 AM

if you enjoy any warlock playstyle you should kill yourself asap


lol i fixed ur comment
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#55 Lolflay

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:08 AM

TBC Affliction was da bomb, TBC Demo was pretty fun to play, WoTLK Affliction was the best thing ever.

Outside of that, all playstyles locks had were shite. Cataclysm marked the start of it, MoP continued the trend and apparently WoD seals the deal.
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[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#56 Disperse22

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:34 AM

Not to be rude but there's a reason you have no glad titles.


lol

Edited by Disperse22, 19 October 2014 - 03:54 PM.

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#57 Disperse22

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:35 AM

Rogues have always had too much CC throughout mop. You realize it's basically impossible to cast a spell with a rogue on you right? In the past every caster had to basically opt out of using casted spells and only use instants while a rogue was on them, or open up space with instant CC and a large amount of that has been removed. The gaps you created in previous expansions also allowed you to kill things in smaller windows, and it's honestly not so bad in the current state at 90 but once you reach 100 you'll want to log out anytime a rogue attacks you.

At level 100 the game is so much slower that a rogue never has to run away and simply attacking a caster keeps that player out of the game longer than having chanimals mash fear on you during MoP. The small windows you can make with CC on the rogue won't get you even close to a kill, once they break the CC they'll just continue to attack you and shut you out of the game for another 2 minutes. Burst of speed is a huge part of the problem but not the entire problem. With blanket silence removed from many classes the silence DR is a much more valuable addition the rogue brings to teams and they can use it much more often than their priest counterpart.

The removal of some caster CC is great but people can't act like melee never had any, they need to remember that those crazy amount of CCs were originally added to compete in the arms race of interrupts melee had added to them.


QFT amen
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#58 Elorxo

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:49 AM

you were able to kite a rogue in tbc but this is not possible anymore due to burst of speed. burst of speed is as stupid as hotw / lifeswap / spirit link imo


you realise that burst of speed is 30 energy and if you are 'spamming' it you are going to do absolutely no damage at all which mirox just explained? i personally think it's better to play with step or cloak and dagger right now by an entire mile
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#59 Breadstick

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:50 AM

TBC Affliction was da bomb, TBC Demo was pretty fun to play, WoTLK Affliction was the best thing ever.

Outside of that, all playstyles locks had were shite. Cataclysm marked the start of it, MoP continued the trend and apparently WoD seals the deal.


i don't think the affliction playstyle is too bad right now. it's like a hybrid between wotlk and cata styles, where you have to cast your dots again but you can occasionally swap them when the situation calls for it. of course there's a few new tools as well, but the overall playstyle still feels similar to how it's been for the majority of the game

also to be clear i'm not talking about whether it's overpowered or not, just how it's played
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s a d b o y s

#60 Disperse22

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:59 AM

i don't think the affliction playstyle is too bad right now. it's like a hybrid between wotlk and cata styles, where you have to cast your dots again but you can occasionally swap them when the situation calls for it. of course there's a few new tools as well, but the overall playstyle still feels similar to how it's been for the majority of the game

also to be clear i'm not talking about whether it's overpowered or not, just how it's played


It's awful on Beta. Demo is the only viable lock spec in WoD currently...but alot can change
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