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What is the "synergy" between lock/sham?


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#1 Jaytron

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:33 PM

Probably a stupid question, but what does the synergy between locks and shams that everyone raves about? Friend plays a lock, I play sham sometimes, and it's not obvious to us. Please AJ pros, LMK.
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#2 jaimee

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:37 PM

rshaman lock synergy isnt as strong as it once was. It isn't as good as druid mage or druid lock synergy. Most of the people complaining about this are mages who don't know how the game works outside of icelance.
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#3 Marshmellow

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:37 PM

It's mostly the warlock imo, but it's just an unfun combination to play against, same with mage+druid and monk+shaman

mage+druid = unfun x 1000 though
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#4 Rorechec

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:46 PM

shaman gives mastery/spell power /haste to the lock which is good dmg buff
lock gives halthstone and gate to shaman which is good for shaman's bad survival
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#5 Mendicant

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Posted 05 September 2014 - 11:47 PM

The Gateway.
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#6 Dreadpolo

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 12:27 AM

rshaman lock synergy isnt as strong as it once was. It isn't as good as druid mage or druid lock synergy. Most of the people complaining about this are mages who don't know how the game works outside of icelance.


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#7 Bigmoran

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 12:40 AM

Everyone has been wrong in this thread except Rorechech. Jaime is spewing some bullshit as usual so lets ignore his third world disenfranchised opinions.

The reason why Lock/Shaman is so particularly strong is the durability of the Warlock with the positioning of the Shaman. Shamans are by far the most passive of all the healers and will sit the entire game in the most conservative position possible. Warlocks happen to have portal, which they will be conveniently placed in the same defensive position as the Shaman. Moreover, Shamans and Warlocks share lots of smaller defensive CDs (NS, Ascend, Spirit Link, Healthstone, Gateway, Warlock Heals) paired with passive damage reduction from Glyph of Healing Stream Totem, Warlock Soul Link and Healthpool increases from Purification and passive Warlock healthpools (Fel Armor).

Edited by Bigmoran, 06 September 2014 - 12:50 AM.

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#8 Jaytron

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 01:03 AM

Everyone has been wrong in this thread except Rorechech. Jaime is spewing some bullshit as usual so lets ignore his third world disenfranchised opinions.

The reason why Lock/Shaman is so particularly strong is the durability of the Warlock with the positioning of the Shaman. Shamans are by far the most passive of all the healers and will sit the entire game in the most conservative position possible. Warlocks happen to have portal, which they will be conveniently placed in the same defensive position as the Shaman. Moreover, Shamans and Warlocks share lots of smaller defensive CDs (NS, Ascend, Spirit Link, Healthstone, Gateway, Warlock Heals) paired with passive damage reduction from Glyph of Healing Stream Totem, Warlock Soul Link and Healthpool increases from Purification and passive Warlock healthpools (Fel Armor).


Exactly what I was looking for, thanks!
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#9 Rynd

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 01:19 AM

forgot about mastery buff
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#10 Maleficent

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 01:36 AM

Shaman Mastery (Deep Healing) also compliments a Warlock's Fel Armor well.

Back when Demon Armor increased your healing taken by 30% it was even crazier.

Edited by Maleficent, 06 September 2014 - 01:36 AM.

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#11 zzatbrah

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 04:42 AM

It's mostly the warlock imo, but it's just an unfun combination to play against, same with mage+druid and monk+shaman

mage+druid = unfun x 1000 though

id que against mage druid for the rest of my life to avoid lock shaman

Edited by zzatbrah, 06 September 2014 - 04:42 AM.

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#12 Marshmellow

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 04:54 AM

id que against mage druid for the rest of my life to avoid lock shaman


well ur feral so obviously lock cc affects you way more than mage cc
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#13 jaimee

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 09:36 AM

Everyone has been wrong in this thread except Rorechech. Jaime is spewing some bullshit as usual so lets ignore his third world disenfranchised opinions.

The reason why Lock/Shaman is so particularly strong is the durability of the Warlock with the positioning of the Shaman. Shamans are by far the most passive of all the healers and will sit the entire game in the most conservative position possible. Warlocks happen to have portal, which they will be conveniently placed in the same defensive position as the Shaman. Moreover, Shamans and Warlocks share lots of smaller defensive CDs (NS, Ascend, Spirit Link, Healthstone, Gateway, Warlock Heals) paired with passive damage reduction from Glyph of Healing Stream Totem, Warlock Soul Link and Healthpool increases from Purification and passive Warlock healthpools (Fel Armor).


k

i was gonna just briefly give an overview of why lock shaman isn't as good as mage druid but you seem to put some effort into yours so I'll do the same;

L/S does have all of what bigmoran posted, however M/D has a looot more.

Double Iceblock, allowing them to run behind the pillar more by avoiding more cc, complimenting the playstyle of mage perfectly.
Druids are already immune to 25-30% of the cc in the game unless pom sheep or something similar.
Any viable 3rd for druid mage x has a extremely short cd immunity (cloak), break (BR for fears), or the cc passively that one cc on their dps won't actually matter as they remove somebody from the game for up to 40 seconds while overlapping x)
Druids and Mages together are especially stupid when paired with feathers from SP or a rogue with BOS, as all three can get behind the pillar in <3 seconds thanks to retardedly overpowered mobility.
M/D can, if allowed to (its difficult to stop also, i.e deep>kick sheep>lol mage rof xD haha outplayed xd) indefinitely cc someone.
the amount of buffs mages / druids have make alter time / fear ward practically undispellable.
temporal shield combined with ironbark ward is more healing than a shaman ns from 10% hp

there is loads more and I could draw comparisons between the two, both are stupid in the way resto shamans can pillar but rshaman lock is nowhere near md level stupid.
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#14 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 10:14 AM

Jaime is spewing some bullshit as usual so lets ignore his third world disenfranchised opinions.

something we just have to put up with i think untill he gets banned again :(

to the op, well done for picking up on the one serious post in this thread, and ignoring the trash :)

Edited by Dizzeeyo, 06 September 2014 - 10:15 AM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#15 zenga

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 10:33 AM

u are so biased it gives me autism holy fuck

care to elaborate then on where exactly the guy is wrong?
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#16 Flavours

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 10:35 AM

care to elaborate then on where exactly the guy is wrong?


he's not, people just can't handle it when he's right
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#17 Bigmoran

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 05:36 PM

k

i was gonna just briefly give an overview of why lock shaman isn't as good as mage druid but you seem to put some effort into yours so I'll do the same;

L/S does have all of what bigmoran posted, however M/D has a looot more.

1. Double Iceblock, allowing them to run behind the pillar more by avoiding more cc, complimenting the playstyle of mage perfectly.???
2. Druids are already immune to 25-30% of the cc in the game unless pom sheep or something similar.
3. Any viable 3rd for druid mage x has a extremely short cd immunity (cloak), break (BR for fears), or the cc passively that one cc on their dps won't actually matter as they remove somebody from the game for up to 40 seconds while overlapping x)
4. Druids and Mages together are especially stupid when paired with feathers from SP or a rogue with BOS, as all three can get behind the pillar in <3 seconds thanks to retardedly overpowered mobility.
5. M/D can, if allowed to (its difficult to stop also, i.e deep>kick sheep>lol mage rof xD haha outplayed xd) indefinitely cc someone.
6. the amount of buffs mages / druids have make alter time / fear ward practically undispellable.
7. temporal shield combined with ironbark ward is more healing than a shaman ns from 10% hp

there is loads more and I could draw comparisons between the two, both are stupid in the way resto shamans can pillar but rshaman lock is nowhere near md level stupid.


1. Symbiosis Ice Block is a five minute cooldown that is most often used to BREAK CC. As a shaman you shouldn't even have qualms with this as you have an AoE Will of the Forsaken on an incredibly short CD.

2. See above. You make you're ENTIRE PARTY immune to any CC from a Priest and basically every other full DR fear. You can break Wyvren, Hibernate, Fear, Psychic Scream, Howl of Terror with a single global. How are you even complaining about shapeshifting when the current meta is to deep ring or deep sheep off CD (if you get deeped in human shapeshifting doesn't even matter at this point). Moreover you have FUCKING grounding totem which literally immunes spells. Holy shit, you have another ability that you can use to immune CC, but suddenly shapeshifting is super OP. Fuck off.

3. This is irrelevant. Shaman/Lock can play with the same classes Mage/Druid can play with. Even more. As SL you can play with:
-Hunters
-Warriors
-Rogues
-Balance Druids
-Mages
-Monks
-DKs

Compared to Mage/Druid where you are almost forced to play either RMD or Godcomp

4. These are complaints about SP and Rogue that are completely irrelevant to this discussion. A SP could feather ANY class, not just Mage and Druid. On that note, Shamans provide AoE freedom. Having guaranteed 100% mobility > Having 70% increased mobility with almost every class having some sort of snare.

5. What game are you playing that a Mage/Druid is allowed to CC 1 player for the entire match. Either you need to learn to play and use one of your thousand abilities to avoid CC or your partners need to use their tictac brains for once.

6. Oh, I didn't realize Shamans don't have that many buffs to give themselves and their partners. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

7. Seriously man how mind crippled are you.

ur so dumb mate xD :^) Don't post useless shit. People actually come to AJ to learn shit and you post the most biased information possible.

Edited by Bigmoran, 06 September 2014 - 05:38 PM.

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#18 Filthpig

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 07:00 PM

People are acting like it's still cata where shaman/lock teams are god tier... You have to admit that Druid teams are much more prevalent on the ladder at higher ratings. I feel that this is because LSD/Godcomp/RMD are all really forgiving comps to play with pretty mindless strategies; do a shit load of damage and don't die, do a shit load of burst with endless cc, go for re's for 20 minutes until you finally line up. It all depends on what kind of play style you want to have though, shamans healers sit behind pillars and drop healing stream and dispel a lot, Druids go in and make plays with clones and bash/roar.


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#19 jaimee

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 08:11 PM

1. Symbiosis Ice Block is a five minute cooldown that is most often used to BREAK CC. As a shaman you shouldn't even have qualms with this as you have an AoE Will of the Forsaken on an incredibly short CD.

2. See above. You make you're ENTIRE PARTY immune to any CC from a Priest and basically every other full DR fear. You can break Wyvren, Hibernate, Fear, Psychic Scream, Howl of Terror with a single global. How are you even complaining about shapeshifting when the current meta is to deep ring or deep sheep off CD (if you get deeped in human shapeshifting doesn't even matter at this point). Moreover you have FUCKING grounding totem which literally immunes spells. Holy shit, you have another ability that you can use to immune CC, but suddenly shapeshifting is super OP. Fuck off.

3. This is irrelevant. Shaman/Lock can play with the same classes Mage/Druid can play with. Even more. As SL you can play with:
-Hunters
-Warriors
-Rogues
-Balance Druids
-Mages
-Monks
-DKs

Compared to Mage/Druid where you are almost forced to play either RMD or Godcomp

4. These are complaints about SP and Rogue that are completely irrelevant to this discussion. A SP could feather ANY class, not just Mage and Druid. On that note, Shamans provide AoE freedom. Having guaranteed 100% mobility > Having 70% increased mobility with almost every class having some sort of snare.

5. What game are you playing that a Mage/Druid is allowed to CC 1 player for the entire match. Either you need to learn to play and use one of your thousand abilities to avoid CC or your partners need to use their tictac brains for once.

6. Oh, I didn't realize Shamans don't have that many buffs to give themselves and their partners. Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

7. Seriously man how mind crippled are you.

ur so dumb mate xD :^) Don't post useless shit. People actually come to AJ to learn shit and you post the most biased information possible.


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#20 Flavours

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Posted 06 September 2014 - 08:14 PM

bigmoran post


ArenaJunkies, Sides with 2500 druid over 3k Ele shaman, on Shaman/lock synergy
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