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Warlocks in WoD


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#41 DanAction

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 05:45 AM

I have a few random thoughts to add since I've played beta some more. Some of these things aren't specific to warlock, but they do apply to us in some way. Most of my testing is through 2v2 skirmishes.

Spec viability:
Affliction: My affliction testing is very limited, but I think it will be alright. Damage seems good, soulburn:haunt will be critical to doing huge damage. You have to cast dots again, which is not as stupid as idiot mode MoP soulburn SS, so at least affliction locks will be fearing a bit less. Other than that, you can expect a more cata like play style I would suspect, except without a 30 second soul swap for free.

Destruction: being my main spec, I really did try to make destro work. It is pretty damn terrible. You are pidgeonholed into taking Charred remains as a 100 talent because ember generation is abysmal without fel flame; you are literally cemented in place in order to do any damage, since incinerate and conflagrate do almost no damage, and you must chaos bolt for any real damage. Even then, chaos bolt does not hit hard enough to even cause great pressure when allowed to freecast. And god forbid anyone steps out of your casting range, or runs around a pillar. You can't actually do damage to someone who is running from you anymore.
Also, 6 second fear for destro is actually a huge nerf to our setup. It's already quite difficult to cast into a full fear even now. and with you being force to run howl of terror. it will be your only setup, aside from someone else's cc.
Ember tap was also nerfed, so healing is pretty meh, not to mention healthstone being able to only be used once until you drop combat. So yeah, destro is pretty much dead. Not quite cataclysm-status dead, but not too far off.

Demo: demo is not too bad. Because it has axe toss, demo can set up easier than the other two specs now, while still having howl. I see demonbolt getting some serious nerfs, because it's honestly too strong. build up to 500-600 fury, pop dark soul and spam demonbolt with cross cc into 2x chaos wave, and you can basically solo people. The weakness is that you obviously need to cast, so melee will be on your dick the entire time. But if you can cast, you can wreck people. It sort of reminds me of current destro, not as godlike as affliction, but it has its place in arena.

Pros and cons about general gameplay:
Pros:
- You can actually juke MoP blanket master mages, and not be silenced afterwards. It's pretty great.
- Interrupts and execute delays have definitely been reduced. It's much more responsive to shadowburn a target than ever before, and interrupts have much less lag.
- Tremor totem change: it's about time.

Cons:
- Melee mobility is still out of control, for the amount of instant control casters have, melee should not have so many ways to immediately get back on a target, especially post-gateway nerf.
- Gateway is completely worthless now. Either get rid of it, or make it not useless. You can't even get gates between pillars on some maps.
- Mage/druid synergy is still too strong, even without soul clones or POM poly, their cc is huge. Rdruid is still the best healer in the game
- Giving silence to disc priest just seems like a huge backward step to reducing retarded instant cc. Imagine the melee cleaves. Now give them a 5 second blanket silence (which most cleaves do not have). Cya healers.

I'm sad they removed so many abilities that definitely had a place in every good warlocks toolkit, but I guess we can live without them.
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#42 ysnakewoo

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 06:46 PM

Out of consideration, are Warlocks anywhere close to "cataclysm" playstyle? I do not believe Blizzard will achieve the WotLK playstyle, nor do we want the return of Globallocks.

Currently, I am divided between Warrior and Warlock as my main DPS class for WoD - I have had affinities for both of them, but the problem was the meta and how the weak class was (I was trying to make Warrior succeed in Season 10 and 11, that was a disaster). Do you think Warlocks will be overall "fun" to play, or will the melees rule supreme the first couple of seasons? I do not care about FOTM, just as long as the class has potential to be played at the top level.
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#43 Walmartshoes

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 01:32 PM

Out of consideration, are Warlocks anywhere close to "cataclysm" playstyle? I do not believe Blizzard will achieve the WotLK playstyle, nor do we want the return of Globallocks.

Currently, I am divided between Warrior and Warlock as my main DPS class for WoD - I have had affinities for both of them, but the problem was the meta and how the weak class was (I was trying to make Warrior succeed in Season 10 and 11, that was a disaster). Do you think Warlocks will be overall "fun" to play, or will the melees rule supreme the first couple of seasons? I do not care about FOTM, just as long as the class has potential to be played at the top level.


What's fun for me may not be fun for you, friend. You need clarity within. Follow what your heart and soul tells you.
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#44 Maleficent

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 05:17 PM

From what I've heard and played on Beta, Demo will be the go to spec, affy will be competitive, and destro will be in the sewers with the rats.
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#45 Tattertotts

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 06:47 PM

I played some Ashran (I know, not arenas) while testing/updating some addons for WoD during the beta and there were a couple of things that stuck out to me (very similar to what Danaowns pointed out above).
  • Destro is pretty awful - Damage is low, healing is lackluster, it's all casted and you're basically a turret sending out bad damage.
  • Fear breaks REALLY fast. When I was playing as affliction it broke after a dot tick or two. Something else might have hit the target too, but fear in general is very short feeling now. 6 second fears regardless of breaking feels a lot shorter
  • Affliction felt ok damage wise but melee seems strong. Again, I was in Ashran so I only got a few small battles, but when I did a feral druid put bleeds on me that ticked crazy hard compared to my dots. Blizzard also left a LOT of distance closers for melee in (warriors still have 12 second charge + heroic leap and intervene, rogues still have burst of speed, etc)

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#46 Walmartshoes

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 02:23 PM

My reaction so far with Dark Mages:

I miss Fel Flame.
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#47 Xerox

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 02:51 PM

Chaos wave tho....
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#48 Callidea

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 03:03 PM

I currently haven't played Destruction yet in the WoD Pre-patch, but both Demonology and Affliction are looking good in my opinion. I haven't really played much Demonology yet, so I'm starting out with Affliction.

My thoughts so far:

-Affliction still has very good damage, but it plays a little different compared to the last couple of expansions.

-Since they gave Soul Swap a soul shard cost, multi dotting will be a little different. You need to hard cast dots

-CC now breaks extremely fast when damage is done to the CCed target (even your own dots break most CC almost instantly). This means you cannot really DoT targets you wish to fear, hex etc.

-Haunt is a lot more expensive at the moment, just because its a little more difficult to keep dots up because of Soul Swap and it feels like they decreased the proc chance of Soul Shards. (I'm not sure if this is correct, but it certainly feels like it procs less often.) You need to be really greedy with your haunts and only use them when going to massive burst damage.


This all means that in 2v2, playing Affliction Warlock is going to be a lot like playing Rogue/SP or Mage/SP. Even when playing with a healer you can't really multi dot both targets if you are planning on fearing any time soon. It looks like Affliction should be played more like a Mage currently. Swapping targets and bursting with Haunts. Your damage is insane with full dots on someone, then put out a couple of Haunts. With the new Soul Swap Glyph, which allows you to keep dots for up to 27 seconds before swapping on another target, your swaps could potentially be really good.

In 3v3 I think dotting 2 targets shouldn't really be a problem. Unstable Affliction has a short cast time (especially with the glyph) which means you can put dots up easily. Multi dotting in 3s looks a lot more viable, but from the current looks of it comps like Shadowplay & Shadowcleave aren't looking very strong, simply because of the fact that you will not be able to fear anything because of the dots breaking your fears. This might change before the season starts though. Comps like RLS & WWLS could be strong, just because of the swaps you can do with the new Soul Swap Glyph (Being able to hold dots for 27 seconds before sending them on a target will give you a lot of time to setup good swaps to any target you like).

The biggest problem with Warlocks is against Melee DPS. You got no instant damage dealing spells like you used to (Fel Flame). You also got no Howl if you want either Shadowfury or Coil. This means you need to use your Gate, Port and Shadowfury/Coil in order to actually get casts off. You can also use Blood Horror, but it does DR with Coil.
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#49 Walmartshoes

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Posted 18 October 2014 - 09:07 PM

Demonbolt's damage got nerfed by 30%. Welp..
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Posted 18 October 2014 - 10:24 PM

I currently haven't played Destruction yet in the WoD Pre-patch, but both Demonology and Affliction are looking good in my opinion. I haven't really played much Demonology yet, so I'm starting out with Affliction.

My thoughts so far:

-Affliction still has very good damage, but it plays a little different compared to the last couple of expansions.

-Since they gave Soul Swap a soul shard cost, multi dotting will be a little different. You need to hard cast dots

-CC now breaks extremely fast when damage is done to the CCed target (even your own dots break most CC almost instantly). This means you cannot really DoT targets you wish to fear, hex etc.

-Haunt is a lot more expensive at the moment, just because its a little more difficult to keep dots up because of Soul Swap and it feels like they decreased the proc chance of Soul Shards. (I'm not sure if this is correct, but it certainly feels like it procs less often.) You need to be really greedy with your haunts and only use them when going to massive burst damage.


This all means that in 2v2, playing Affliction Warlock is going to be a lot like playing Rogue/SP or Mage/SP. Even when playing with a healer you can't really multi dot both targets if you are planning on fearing any time soon. It looks like Affliction should be played more like a Mage currently. Swapping targets and bursting with Haunts. Your damage is insane with full dots on someone, then put out a couple of Haunts. With the new Soul Swap Glyph, which allows you to keep dots for up to 27 seconds before swapping on another target, your swaps could potentially be really good.

In 3v3 I think dotting 2 targets shouldn't really be a problem. Unstable Affliction has a short cast time (especially with the glyph) which means you can put dots up easily. Multi dotting in 3s looks a lot more viable, but from the current looks of it comps like Shadowplay & Shadowcleave aren't looking very strong, simply because of the fact that you will not be able to fear anything because of the dots breaking your fears. This might change before the season starts though. Comps like RLS & WWLS could be strong, just because of the swaps you can do with the new Soul Swap Glyph (Being able to hold dots for 27 seconds before sending them on a target will give you a lot of time to setup good swaps to any target you like).

The biggest problem with Warlocks is against Melee DPS. You got no instant damage dealing spells like you used to (Fel Flame). You also got no Howl if you want either Shadowfury or Coil. This means you need to use your Gate, Port and Shadowfury/Coil in order to actually get casts off. You can also use Blood Horror, but it does DR with Coil.


this is simply wrong. afflic dmg is low tbh. full dots with trinket, demon soul, and soul burn haunt and spamming drain soul and a target still dies very slowly. If they have a healer, they will sit at 95% and above the entire time.
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#51 DkH.ZeRa

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 11:34 AM

They butchered the class completely WoTLK -> Cata, losing the ability to kill someone 100-0 on my own is what killed the fun factor for me, personally.


this!

My reaction so far with Dark Mages:

I miss Fel Flame.


and this. :)

Its so dumb as destro without any instant to kill totems, cancel spell reflect or getting the last hit for an ember.
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#52 xGladius

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 01:22 PM

They butchered the class completely WoTLK -> Cata, losing the ability to kill someone 100-0 on my own is what killed the fun factor for me, personally.


oh man the pain of those days
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#53 Xerox

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 01:50 PM

I personally love playing Demo, so this is gonna be a fun patch I think...
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#54 mirag

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 02:06 PM

I currently haven't played Destruction yet in the WoD Pre-patch, but both Demonology and Affliction are looking good in my opinion. I haven't really played much Demonology yet, so I'm starting out with Affliction.


this is simply wrong. afflic dmg is low tbh. full dots with trinket, demon soul, and soul burn haunt and spamming drain soul and a target still dies very slowly. If they have a healer, they will sit at 95% and above the entire time.


You are talking about beta and he is talking about pre-patch.
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#55 ajc1981

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 03:08 PM

imo it's not fel flame we lack it's a slow that's the main thing give shadow flame bk problem solved, i'm still looking forward to the glyph ss
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#56 Callidea

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 03:24 PM

this is simply wrong. afflic dmg is low tbh. full dots with trinket, demon soul, and soul burn haunt and spamming drain soul and a target still dies very slowly. If they have a healer, they will sit at 95% and above the entire time.


If you throw any cc on the healer and get full dots + haunt on the kill target, your damage is going to be enough to kill someone or at least force some cool downs. There is no point bursting with haunt when the healer can just instantly heal back up, so you need to have good timing with your burst.

As someone mentioned earlier you could be talking about Beta, while I'm talking about the current live patch 6.0.2.
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#57 Behemothzz

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 05:15 PM

They mentioned that after the nerf on demo they gonna buff the other 2 specs to make them competitive.. yet nothing changed only a -10% damage on Corruption for no particular reason...
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Posted 19 October 2014 - 06:07 PM

If you throw any cc on the healer and get full dots + haunt on the kill target, your damage is going to be enough to kill someone or at least force some cool downs. There is no point bursting with haunt when the healer can just instantly heal back up, so you need to have good timing with your burst.

As someone mentioned earlier you could be talking about Beta, while I'm talking about the current live patch 6.0.2.


Ya sorry I was talking about beta.
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#59 Maleficent

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Posted 19 October 2014 - 07:11 PM

They mentioned that after the nerf on demo they gonna buff the other 2 specs to make them competitive.. yet nothing changed only a -10% damage on Corruption for no particular reason...

At least at 90, Demo was nerfed because of PvE reasons and so was Affliction. Destro damage is actually really good but movement fucks you so hard.

WTB Fel Flame will sell my soul.
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#60 mirag

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Posted 20 October 2014 - 02:03 PM

Yeah....
Level 90 is very, very different from wod.
People should not take level 90 as an indication of anything.
The only thing level 90 and beta has in common is how retarded ferals and dks are.

Edited by mirag, 20 October 2014 - 02:03 PM.

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