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#1 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:15 AM

Hello! I noticed that there doesn't seem to be a priest thread about WoD around here, so I thought I might create one. I mainly play healer so I can't bring any feedback about shadow, apart from that 7 seconds Psychic Horror is exactly as dumb as it sounds.

So for WoD a lot of stuff are being changed. Life Swap is being removed so we have to rely on GS/PS as healing cooldown.

From trying out both healing specs, I personally feel like Holy is still far superior to Disc in arenas, with way stronger burst healing and cc still being stronger. Most people I faced was playing Disc though, so I am unsure if I am wrong or if people are just trying it out for fun.

With Psychic Scream being a talent with a 45 second cooldown and chastise sharing DR with polymorph/traps, our cc has been severely crippled. It feels more than ever before like we are the new holy paladin, maxranging and healing with poor offensive tools.

Damage seems to have been slightly buffed (damage overall has gone down, including ours, but our damage relative to dps classes feels stronger in WoD than it did in MoP), so casting Smite might be worth it again.

Prayer of Mending is currently complete garbage, even glyphed it only heals for a fraction of a Flash Heal with the same cast time. I rarely ever use it.

Via a glyph, Holy Fire will act as the new SW:D, which Holy and Disc Priests are losing. The downside is that if we are locked on Holy, we can no longer use our cc avoidance.

If we are locked on holy, Divine Star will no longer be useable. This does not matter all that much though as Divine Star doesn't heal for anything anymore. I haven't tried out the other talents on this row yet, but I am planning on doing it shortly.

Aura Mastery is now built into Fade via a glyph that will be useable for both Disc and Holy. The glyph also increases the cd of fade by 1 min, so we will have an aura mastery on a 1.5 min cd.

Out of the level 100 talents, two of them look really bad. Like mentioned above, PoM is complete trash so I don't see Words of Mending being used, and Clarity of Will/Purpose has a 2.5 second cast time. Even though the shield provided is very strong for disc, the cast time and the fact that it is dispellable makes me doubt it ever being used.
This will leave us with an interesting talent, Saving Grace. It heals for a considerable amount but reduces healing and absorbs by 10% for 10 seconds, stacking up to 10 times. Careful useage of this talent can really save the day.

This is my experiences so far from the beta. While a lot of it sounds bad, keep in mind that most classes have been nerfed, so I still think we are still viable. I have only played the beta for about a day , so I have most likely missed a lot. I intend to play more tomorrow, so if anyone has any questions, feel free to ask! :)

TLDR: Holy>Disc, cc is shit but damage is slightly improved. Prepare for a lot of maxrange healing in WoD.

#2 Gekz

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:30 AM

just feels like a shittier version of MoP for priest

#3 Kona

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 09:24 AM

One thing that really interests me right now is how easy is it to death CC? They said they are improving the responsiveness of the game and that means removing delays, meaning the "backlash" damage from holy fire will come quicker.

#4 Elorxo

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 10:39 AM

this sounds awful

#5 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 11:01 AM

View PostKona, on 17 July 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

One thing that really interests me right now is how easy is it to death CC? They said they are improving the responsiveness of the game and that means removing delays, meaning the "backlash" damage from holy fire will come quicker.
As I am playing with 200 ms on the beta, I can't say for sure how the improved responsiveness affects deathing cc. All I can say is that it still works.

One positive thing for priests come WoD is that we will now be the only healer with good instant cast burst healing with PW:Shield, Saving Grace and HW:Serenity. All other healers has to cast in order to do any burst healing. Druids still has Swiftmend and a lot of instant hots though, and with the slow gameplay it might very well be better.

If fear get reverted back to a 30 second cooldown I think we might be in a good spot, but it just feels aweful not being able to help with cc more than once every 45 seconds. Good luck ever getting a fear to stick on a shaman...

#6 pharrelle

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 11:42 AM

View Postottishen, on 17 July 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

As I am playing with 200 ms on the beta, I can't say for sure how the improved responsiveness affects deathing cc. All I can say is that it still works.

One positive thing for priests come WoD is that we will now be the only healer with good instant cast burst healing with PW:Shield, Saving Grace and HW:Serenity. All other healers has to cast in order to do any burst healing. Druids still has Swiftmend and a lot of instant hots though, and with the slow gameplay it might very well be better.

If fear get reverted back to a 30 second cooldown I think we might be in a good spot, but it just feels aweful not being able to help with cc more than once every 45 seconds. Good luck ever getting a fear to stick on a shaman...
so how does that alter the gameplay, do you play now more like a shaman more passive less aggressive?
Is tremor unchanged? Its already borderline unplayable queuen without a tremor in your team.
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#7 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 12:06 PM

View Postpharrelle, on 17 July 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

so how does that alter the gameplay, do you play now more like a shaman more passive less aggressive?
Is tremor unchanged? Its already borderline unplayable queuen without a tremor in your team.
Yeah, from what I have seen we are pretty much forced to play far back as we don't gain much from pushing in anymore. Like I mentioned earlier, our damage seems to be increased, but I have yet to play offensive comps like RMP where I can use the damage. To my knowledge tremor is unchanged, but I haven't checked it out yet.
I suppose that one can argue that longer cd on fear means that it will promote good useage of it, since a wasted fear will truly hurt, but personally I really don't like it. It feels like we can't punish people for pushing up into our faces at all anymore :(

Also, forgot to mention that Chakras are now counted as stances, so we can no longer /cancelaura in order to get a free Chastise. Furthermore, the cooldown is increased to 10 seconds for chakras, so going offensive Chakra means that we are stuck in there for 10 seconds. However, Chakra: Serenity no longer increases healing done, that effect is now passive. We only lose HW:Serenity and direct heals refreshing the duration of renew if we are in the Chakra: Chastise. Basically, if we go offensive Chakra we are stuck in there for a longer period of time, but we are not as punished for it as we used to be.

Edited by ottishen, 17 July 2014 - 12:08 PM.


#8 Clamnesia

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 12:09 PM

I can go ahead and tell you this right now... Ive played since season 1.. In EVERY expansion thus far, priests have ate the shit at the beginning of an expansion.. We are always weak the first season and sometimes even the first 2. Dont expect to go into this being the best option for a healer.. If this changed.. I would be very surprised.. Priests have always been a "scales with gear" kinda class. Also, what exactly are you saying makes holy better than disc? The CC? or what? Penance is still channeled right? Are shields good or still garbage? Last i heard BF was being deleted, which means shields should be good again, right? Or nah?
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#9 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

View PostClamnesia, on 17 July 2014 - 12:09 PM, said:

I can go ahead and tell you this right now... Ive played since season 1.. In EVERY expansion thus far, priests have ate the shit at the beginning of an expansion.. We are always weak the first season and sometimes even the first
2. Dont expect to go into this being the best option for a healer.. If this changed.. I would be very surprised.. Priests have always been a "scales with gear" kinda class. Also, what exactly are you saying makes holy better than disc? The CC? or what? Penance is still channeled right? Are shields good or still garbage? Last i heard BF was being deleted, which means shields should be good again, right? Or nah?
My goal of this thread is definately not to whine about the state of priests, rather to point out the difference between live and WoD. Like I mentioned, most classes takes some strong nerfs, so just because priests are nerfed does not mean we won't be viable :)

When it comes to Holy vs Disc, first off I forgot to mention that Disc and Shadow are losing Renew. It is obviously not the deciding factor, but I realized that I didn't mention it in my initial post.
I just felt like Holy had stronger heals, with Disc still struggling with topping people off due to having Divine Aegis instead of crit heals. Having stronger shields is not quite enough to offset the fact that Holy has 2 additional instant cast spells in HW:S and Renew. Also, since you can't obtain that much mastery atm, shields will not be that much stronger when comparing Disc to Holy (this will obviously change later on in the expac though). They also have less damage than Holy in Chakra:Chastise and less CC due to Holy having Chastise (not sure how much Chastise will be used now when it is on the incapacitate DR, but it is still better than not having anything at all). All in all, I just don't see any reason to go Disc, as Holy feels slightly stronger in every department.

#10 Elorxo

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:32 PM

View Postottishen, on 17 July 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

My goal of this thread is definately not to whine about the state of priests, rather to point out the difference between live and WoD. Like I mentioned, most classes takes some strong nerfs, so just because priests are nerfed does not mean we won't be viable :)

When it comes to Holy vs Disc, first off I forgot to mention that Disc and Shadow are losing Renew. It is obviously not the deciding factor, but I realized that I didn't mention it in my initial post.
I just felt like Holy had stronger heals, with Disc still struggling with topping people off due to having Divine Aegis instead of crit heals. Having stronger shields is not quite enough to offset the fact that Holy has 2 additional instant cast spells in HW:S and Renew. Also, since you can't obtain that much mastery atm, shields will not be that much stronger when comparing Disc to Holy (this will obviously change later on in the expac though). They also have less damage than Holy in Chakra:Chastise and less CC due to Holy having Chastise (not sure how much Chastise will be used now when it is on the incapacitate DR, but it is still better than not having anything at all). All in all, I just don't see any reason to go Disc, as Holy feels slightly stronger in every department.

the only problem would be the 10s chakra change. I think that's gonna be pretty huge and swapping chakras is hardly going to be worth it since chastise DR's with a lot of things and you are really gimped in healing for the next 10 seconds after you use it.

shields look really strong on the beta from watching streams and stuff, presumably they need to buff prayed of mending and divine star else they won't be worth using at all with the cast time.

1 question, does holy spark still exist when you pom? or has overall healing on flash heals etc been increased to make up for the removal of this?

#11 Clamnesia

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 01:52 PM

View Postottishen, on 17 July 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

My goal of this thread is definately not to whine about the state of priests, rather to point out the difference between live and WoD. Like I mentioned, most classes takes some strong nerfs, so just because priests are nerfed does not mean we won't be viable :)

When it comes to Holy vs Disc, first off I forgot to mention that Disc and Shadow are losing Renew. It is obviously not the deciding factor, but I realized that I didn't mention it in my initial post.
I just felt like Holy had stronger heals, with Disc still struggling with topping people off due to having Divine Aegis instead of crit heals. Having stronger shields is not quite enough to offset the fact that Holy has 2 additional instant cast spells in HW:S and Renew. Also, since you can't obtain that much mastery atm, shields will not be that much stronger when comparing Disc to Holy (this will obviously change later on in the expac though). They also have less damage than Holy in Chakra:Chastise and less CC due to Holy having Chastise (not sure how much Chastise will be used now when it is on the incapacitate DR, but it is still better than not having anything at all). All in all, I just don't see any reason to go Disc, as Holy feels slightly stronger in every department.

great info, however, still didnt answer my question... How strong are shields? I see you saying that healing is weaker in disc, but disc has never been a raw healing spec... Its all about PREVENTING damage in the form of shields and utility.. If shields arent still being one shot, then i would assume disc is gonna be very competitive if not better... Especially seeing as how the extra CC from holy is going to be moot when it comes to priests best comps.. (Unless used for cross CC) I find it very ridiculous that holy is becoming the new disc.. Disc was originally until this expansion , supposed to be a spec that could do WONDERS for a team.. It had amazing "off damage" etc.. It was a legitimate "support" class rather than just a Healing class like all of the other healers.Its supposed to be an OFFENSIVE support/healing spec/class.  Its really annoying that blizzard is changing everything that made this game what it was when it was most popular.. If something isnt broke, DONT FIX IT!. I dont want to "be like all of the other healers" i want to be different. I want to have different tools, a different play style. This game is just getting more and more ridiculous as time and expansions go on. Anyways, ive digressed.

I want information on shields!!! Thanks for relaying all of this! Im glad you are making good use of your beta privileges.
Ya know, i was born in west philadelphia. I spent most of my days on the play ground. Usually i just be chillin, relaxin, trying to act cool by shooting some b-ball at school. But on this one, terrible, dreary, horrid day, a couple of guys that were certainly up to no good starting making trouble.. I was the first one of course to step up and fight them back. Because of this, my mom got scared and made me move in with my aunt and uncle in bel-air.

#12 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:28 PM

View PostElorxo, on 17 July 2014 - 01:32 PM, said:

1 question, does holy spark still exist when you pom? or has overall healing on flash heals etc been increased to make up for the removal of this?
As of now, Holy Spark does not exist, but the PvP set bonuses has not yet been implemented for priests. However, even so, PoM still heals for too low for it to be used. To compare:
PoM heals for ~4k, so let's say 6k glyphed. Flash Heal does about 25k and so does HW:S. Flash Heal->HW:S would mean a total of 50k healing, while PoM->HW:S will be 31k, 43.5k if they implement Holy Spark again (tested outside of arenas where the ilvl is 660 and health pools are 250k).
All in all, even with Holy Spark, using the cast time for Flash Heal is still stronger if numbers are not tuned.

#13 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:34 PM

As for shields, Holy Priest shields seems to absorb about 24k, while Disc shield absorbs about 30k. It seems a bit unstable though, since it sometimes absorbs 60k (crit heals i would assume) and others 40k, which I am not sure where it comes from, as I don't have any trinket procs when it occurs. This is with full Versatility enchants (new stat that increases damage done and  reduces damage taken), so no mastery enchants. Meeles seems to be able to break the shield fairly quick, both warrior and frost dks can crit up towards 80-100k, which is partly why I don't feel disc very strong (tested in arenas where the ilvl is 690 and health pools are 350k rather than 250k).

When duelling a mage that was tunnelling dps freely into me, it took him about 4 seconds to break my shield, so might be strong against certain comps. I can definately see disc priest cleaves using Clarity of Will and Spirit Shell to stack upp MASSIVE shields and rush in like people did in season 13. Spirit Shell is currently bugged however so I can't check how high the combined absorb would be. Without it, Clarity of Will and PW:S combined can create shields to up to 150k on 250k health pools (tested outside of arenas).

Another problem for disc that I almost forgot is the dispel protection. Grace is now removed permanently, and with Renew removed, we do not have any dispel protection at all, save PW:F. teams with purges will have no problem what so ever keeping people clean and dispelling the shields.

While the numbers may seem low compared to the health pools, it is because of blizzards desire to create a "wounded state". Damage relative to health pools is also fairly low, with the exception of dks and warriors.

Note: Some of the values differ because they are tested inside and outside arenas. As a way to keep PvE gear out of PvP, the ilvl for pvp pieces are increased in arenas, meaning that the numbers will not be the same as testing them outside.

#14 Clamnesia

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:36 PM

View Postottishen, on 17 July 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

As of now, Holy Spark does not exist, but the PvP set bonuses has not yet been implemented for priests. However, even so, PoM still heals for too low for it to be used. To compare:
PoM heals for ~4k, so let's say 6k glyphed. Flash Heal does about 25k and so does HW:S. Flash Heal->HW:S would mean a total of 50k healing, while PoM->HW:S will be 31k, 43.5k if they implement Holy Spark again (tested outside of arenas where the ilvl is 660 and health pools are 250k).
All in all, even with Holy Spark, using the cast time for Flash Heal is still stronger if numbers are not tuned.

PoM still works the same though right? So now it can be used as kind of a pre damage ability or no? Example: team is topped cast PoM, warrior recks, first damage PoM procs and heals, you have more time to react to damage instead of being behind and healing the damage that has already happened? I know blizzard has said their main goal is for healers to not focus on keeping everyone topped anymore but rather keeping everyone in a 70% - 100% thresh. So with that said, youre not gonna use it as a main source of healing like flash heal, but instead to kind of pre heal damage that will be incoming.. Another example, you have PoM up at the beginning of the game before and RMP opens when you might be sapped and not healing for a sec.. Would these be viable situations to use it in or nah?
Ya know, i was born in west philadelphia. I spent most of my days on the play ground. Usually i just be chillin, relaxin, trying to act cool by shooting some b-ball at school. But on this one, terrible, dreary, horrid day, a couple of guys that were certainly up to no good starting making trouble.. I was the first one of course to step up and fight them back. Because of this, my mom got scared and made me move in with my aunt and uncle in bel-air.

#15 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:40 PM

Annoyed side note: Hunter cc is even more retarded than it is on live. Who thought it would be a good idea to give traps a 12 sec cooldown (if survival) and trigger instantly, by which I mean before you even see the arrow flying towards you so it is completely unavoidable? PoM Poly was deemed overpowered and removed (rightly so). What were they smoking when they thought that it would be fine to give it to Hunters on a 12 second cooldown?

#16 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:40 PM

View PostClamnesia, on 17 July 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

PoM still works the same though right? So now it can be used as kind of a pre damage ability or no? Example: team is topped cast PoM, warrior recks, first damage PoM procs and heals, you have more time to react to damage instead of being behind and healing the damage that has already happened? I know blizzard has said their main goal is for healers to not focus on keeping everyone topped anymore but rather keeping everyone in a 70% - 100% thresh. So with that said, youre not gonna use it as a main source of healing like flash heal, but instead to kind of pre heal damage that will be incoming.. Another example, you have PoM up at the beginning of the game before and RMP opens when you might be sapped and not healing for a sec.. Would these be viable situations to use it in or nah?
It can still be used preemptively, but currently it heals for about the same as a renew tick- and that is if you are wasting a glyph slot on it! So while you can still do it, the heal is so small that it won't make any difference even in those situations :/

Edited by ottishen, 17 July 2014 - 02:42 PM.


#17 Clamnesia

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:46 PM

View Postottishen, on 17 July 2014 - 02:40 PM, said:

It can still be used preemptively, but currently it heals for about the same as a renew tick- and that is if you are wasting a glyph slot on it! So while you can still do it, the heal is so small that it won't make any difference even in those situations :/

Sigh... So basically, warriors and DKs are still damage gods? Is this something that you can see being nerfed because it is ALOT more than the damage of other classes or is it just slightly more? Umm.. for you to better understand the question.. You said warriors and dks are hitting (on their higher ends) upwards of 150k, on a 350k Health pool. Thats nearly a swing for half of your health pool. What are casters and rogues hitting for on their high end? And  Is this consistent damage or once every now and then damage like boomkins currently have?

Side question: With Dks having necrotic strike removed, im assuming the damage increase is in place of that.. You feel more or less pressure by DKS?


I cant see this making it to live when your heals are only healing for ~30k. that would mean you get 2 shot before you can be topped off right? If they got 2 150k hits consecutively, you wouldnt be able to heal thru that if flash heal is healing for only ~30k.


if warriors and DKs make it to live in that state.. I think Veev will win the first WoD blizzcon. =D

Edited by Clamnesia, 17 July 2014 - 02:50 PM.

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#18 ottishen

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:53 PM

View PostClamnesia, on 17 July 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

Sigh... So basically, warriors and DKs are still damage gods? Is this something that you can see being nerfed because it is ALOT more than the damage of other classes or is it just slightly more? Umm.. for you to better understand the question.. You said warriors and dks are hitting (on their higher ends) upwards of 150k, on a 350k Health pool. Thats nearly a swing for half of your health pool. What are casters and rogues hitting for on their high end? And  Is this consistent damage or once every now and then damage like boomkins currently have?

Side question: With Dks having necrotic strike removed, im assuming the damage increase is in place of that.. You feel more or less pressure by DKS?
It's hard to say exactly what is overpowered or not when there is no mmr; one second you face people that can't find the keyboard and the next you face multi rank1 players. But nothing hits even close to dks and warriors atm from what I have seen (150k might be a bit more than they do, it's more around the 100k mark, but still). Hopefully it will be looked into and changed.
I am not sure what rogues and mages are hitting for, unfortunately I don't have anyone to test it with atm. I will come back when I know! 50k is something that sounds about right though.

As for DKs, I can't say for sure how the removal of necrotics has affected them, as every DK I have faced so far has been Frost.

Edit: Duelled a mage friend, and his burst, Frost Bomb up, Frostbolt+Ice Lance (Ice Lance blows the bomb) was 19+14+10=43k. Assuming that the damage will increase with about as much as my spells does, that would equal 58k in arenas.

Edited by ottishen, 17 July 2014 - 03:00 PM.


#19 Clamnesia

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

View Postottishen, on 17 July 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

It's hard to say exactly what is overpowered or not when there is no mmr; one second you face people that can't find the keyboard and the next you face multi rank1 players. But nothing hits even close to dks and warriors atm from what I have seen (150k might be a bit more than they do, it's more around the 100k mark, but still). Hopefully it will be looked into and changed.
I am not sure what rogues and mages are hitting for, unfortunately I don't have anyone to test it with atm. I will come back when I know! 50k is something that sounds about right though.

As for DKs, I can't say for sure how the removal of necrotics has affected them, as every DK I have faced so far has been Frost.

Maybe im just retarded, but its hard for me to understand this.. From your information, it sounds as though youre quite literally behind on healing for the entire game. Sounds basically impossible to heal thru the beta TSG overlords. When you say your flash heal hits for ~ 30k, thats baseline right? non crit? If a TSG is smashing 100ks into you, it would be physically impossible to keep your team up with ~30k heals.. You would be oom in a matter of seconds, unless they have reduced mana costs of spells by a huge amount. GIVE ME A BETA INVITE BLIZZ. lol
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#20 Forumz

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 03:04 PM

View Postottishen, on 17 July 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

As for DKs, I can't say for sure how the removal of necrotics has affected them, as every DK I have faced so far has been Frost.
Frost uses Necrotic Strike on live as well though, so it does change how they function.

But yeah, if Warriors and DKs are hitting 100ks while everyone is healing for 30k non crits, that sounds like it's not balanced at all. It wouldn't be possible to heal that damage.

Edited by Forumz, 17 July 2014 - 03:05 PM.

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