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Holy Paladin in WoD, gameplay in arena.


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#41 Jim_Jim

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:48 PM

Paladins feel like they're in an alright spot from the testing ive done. The only thing thats annoying is like you guys were mentioning holy power is pretty useless. Because of this every talent in the lvl 75 tier is really awkward and bad for holy. I've been using the avenging wrath talent because its the only one that does anything atm.

The one thing I really like about wod healing so far is basically every single class has to cast, which is going to put a huge emphasis on interrupts and juking.

One thing that getting me worried though is our pvp set 2 and 4 piece, which are both fucking useless. Other classes have super overpowered 4 sets, and holy paladins get literally nothing from ours atm. I really hope its just a placeholder or something because if they're planning on letting it go live its going to suck.


I like the idea of the 2-part (Steal the crit chance of the denounce'd target), even if the duration is short (8s), the big problem will be in 3v3, or during RBG : i don't think we can afford to cast a denounce during a huge burst phase.
The 4-part is ridiculous indeed. -10s for sacrifice. Haha.

I would love to have a holy power gain for judgment or something that's make holy power more valuable. (Like the same bonus as ret? Increase healing/damage by X% during Ys per charge after using holy power - even if it's not very imaginative...)
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#42 Juther

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 04:14 PM

I think one nice quick change to holy power in WoD would be to make 3hp WoG casts instant. That way there would be some choice to using WoG + an incentive to maintain 5 holy power at all times.

Or make it so that for every holy power we have, we get certain % less spell pushback, so that we gotta strategize between using a WoG for free healing or maintaining holy power for the spell pushback resist, or something like that.


I really like the idea but i think that Holy Avenger would become a too powerfull cd.

btw is really a nice idea.
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#43 Gigana

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:08 PM

They could also give us additional abilities that expend holy power. Stuff like:

Inquisition (but for healing).
A quick-cast crowd control.
An absorb shield.
A real HoT (without the direct-healing part).
A crowd-control break that needs 5 hp to be used (so you gotta plan ahead and stack holy power when you expect cc is coming).

BTW, did anyone try using pursuit of justice talent in WoD? If we don't use holy power all that much, then we could pretty much maintain a constant 30% speed increase. Seems very strong against certain comps.
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#44 Vlada

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 08:52 PM

Why wouldn't you use your holy power? WoG is still mana free, it's just hard to get it and pretty one sided. You will still use it whenever you hit that 3 HPs since its probably much better than FoL
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#45 Jim_Jim

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 09:00 PM

http://i.imgur.com/leWuEKG.jpg

<3
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#46 Gigana

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 09:55 PM

Why wouldn't you use your holy power? WoG is still mana free, it's just hard to get it and pretty one sided. You will still use it whenever you hit that 3 HPs since its probably much better than FoL

Yeah but it's just not such a big deal when it's not instant and the entire mini-game of maintaining eternal flame everywhere is gone. If you got mana, you might as well use flash of light instead.

On a related note, it's boring that the only difference between my big finisher and my standard heals (flash of light and proc divine light) is mana cost.
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#47 koshimo

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 10:03 PM

I like the idea of the 2-part (Steal the crit chance of the denounce'd target), even if the duration is short (8s), the big problem will be in 3v3, or during RBG : i don't think we can afford to cast a denounce during a huge burst phase.
The 4-part is ridiculous indeed. -10s for sacrifice. Haha.


I agree the 2 piece is kind of a cool mechanic but its literally useless in real pvp.

Why wouldn't you use your holy power? WoG is still mana free, it's just hard to get it and pretty one sided. You will still use it whenever you hit that 3 HPs since its probably much better than FoL


The problem is that its not on demand healing like it used to be. The only on demand healing we currently have is holy shock, fast cast holy light, and execution sentence (which is pretty good now). If someone is dying and needs healing asap word of glory isn't going to be the first button you press. Word of glory has gone from our bread and butter big heal to our new mana efficient heal, which in the current state of the game is pretty useless because its really really hard to go oom.
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#48 Jim_Jim

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 09:54 AM

Why wouldn't you use your holy power? WoG is still mana free, it's just hard to get it and pretty one sided. You will still use it whenever you hit that 3 HPs since its probably much better than FoL


Yes, of course. But the problem is just about gameplay and mechanics. What's the point of having a "combo-points" bar if it's only to have the same spell without mana. It's the same as having a passive buff every 18s which says "Hey ! Your next flash heal is free."
Especially when mana is not a real problem in beta.

Not really exciting. And it makes Holy Avenger and Divine Purpose really bad and not attractive.

The level 100 talents are all really attractive on the other side. Just Beacon of Insight seems not finished yet because it bounces on every single heal (even if it's not your own healing spell.). Light everywhere ! It's really hard to use it properly :)

I expect a huge nerf for the "shockadin" spec (Sanctified Wrath + Holy Shock glyph). It's just ridiculous how much damage you can put if you are free to "cast".
The downside is that you "have to" use AW for dps, you have to be free to cast (Not really difficult.), and you have to use a glyph. (I can't play without denounce and beacon, and glyph of flash or glyph of freedom are really attractive too.). I still think it's not viable at high level against good players.

I hope not, because it's really fu.cking funny. :D

Edited by Jim_Jim, 07 October 2014 - 09:58 AM.

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#49 Gigana

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 10:29 AM

I for one would love to have shockadin-style play viable. Maybe not such huge dmg as it seems to be right now, but it's cool when a healer can help out, as it adds another level to the gameplay. Think how priests used to be. ^_^
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#50 Juther

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 10:55 AM

I expect a huge nerf for the "shockadin" spec (Sanctified Wrath + Holy Shock glyph). It's just ridiculous how much damage you can put if you are free to "cast".
The downside is that you "have to" use AW for dps, you have to be free to cast (Not really difficult.), and you have to use a glyph. (I can't play without denounce and beacon, and glyph of flash or glyph of freedom are really attractive too.). I still think it's not viable at high level against good players.

I hope not, because it's really fu.cking funny. :D


i dont know mate, u still have to lose totally your healing output to burst people, while having your HS healing 50% nerfed ( HS Glyph ), so we lose alot to gain a nice burst capability under cd, not so umbalanced ( take a look to Moonkin healing, its viceversa ).

The game need this kind of things to create more fun. its really great right now.

About Glyph :

Freedom imo is mandatory, finally we have something ( under a decent cd btw ) to counter cc on us/mates.
Self buffing freedom while the 1st sheep/fear/shit are casted is really effective,fun and takes skill imo.

Denounce is mandatory for all the new and old things ( i remember your post about the trash buffs/crit debuff :D )

FoL is our main spamming heal/skill , 10% healing more is really nice i could say mandatory.

I think that Beacon instead could be used with a little less swapping, i know beaconed target has 10% more heals, but i think that we all play with 2 Beacons :) so may be less problems for swapping ( still have 3 sec cd for Beacon cast ). So the Beacon Glyph could be really less mandatory then Pandaria.

Ty all for the feedbacks!
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#51 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 10:57 AM

it adds another level to the gameplay. Think how priests used to be. ^_^

unfortunately this is exactly the sort of thing they end up removing (see priests) since "additional levels of gameplay" usually end up being hurtful in the hands of inexperienced players and over the top in the hands of top players, which makes them difficult to balance :(
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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#52 Jim_Jim

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 11:14 AM

I for one would love to have shockadin-style play viable. Maybe not such huge dmg as it seems to be right now, but it's cool when a healer can help out, as it adds another level to the gameplay. Think how priests used to be. ^_^


At least, it's not like moonkin, it's not passively in the spec, we have to sacrifice major glyphs and change the nature of a CD to be a "shockadin". Heart of the Wild is used to heal as a moonkin, just for that. AW is a healing CD at first, but it can be used for DPS. It's a choice.

I will try to use both glyph of holy shock, and the new one which reduce AW by 50% (50% heals / 10% dps-crit-hast, but 50% less CD). It could be fun to assist - less - during 30s every 1'30 :D

Saved by the Light is great too Juther (~100k shield on you and the beacon can be a life saver), even if double beacon could allow us to forget the beacon glyph. Put 2 beacons of dps, and switch only when you are the target.

(Multistrike is fun too :D)
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#53 Gigana

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:50 PM

unfortunately this is exactly the sort of thing they end up removing (see priests) since "additional levels of gameplay" usually end up being hurtful in the hands of inexperienced players and over the top in the hands of top players, which makes them difficult to balance :(

I think we all know WoW is always going to have overpowered crap. I'd much prefer it to be some cool, deep overpowered crap rather than today's boring everything-about-this-is-too-good overpowered crap. :D
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#54 Juther

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Posted 07 October 2014 - 12:51 PM

I will try to use both glyph of holy shock, and the new one which reduce AW by 50% (50% heals / 10% dps-crit-hast, but 50% less CD). It could be fun to assist - less - during 30s every 1'30 :D



Really cool combo, but last time i tested it was a bug with Sanctified Wrath, that didn't work.

Dunno if they fixed ( or if its just work as intended)
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#55 Bonarelli

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 05:19 PM

knas asså
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#56 Spooh

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 03:40 AM

Really cool combo, but last time i tested it was a bug with Sanctified Wrath, that didn't work.

Dunno if they fixed ( or if its just work as intended)


I tested this a week ago, they've fixed it.

This build feels extremely powerful in 1v1 and 2v2, but is most likely not gonna go anywhere in 3s due to holy shock not healing for shiet with the holy shock glyph. I might be wrong though, but currently im loving the shit out of paladin in the beta. It reminds me of Hpala back in TBC and I can't wait to play this on liiiive
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#57 Gigana

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 01:23 PM

Are all the changes coming on wednesday, btw? Casttime wog and such?
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#58 Juther

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 01:47 AM

Are all the changes coming on wednesday, btw? Casttime wog and such?


As far as i know, yes.
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#59 ottishen

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 02:31 AM

Saved by the Light is great too Juther (~100k shield on you and the beacon can be a life saver), even if double beacon could allow us to forget the beacon glyph. Put 2 beacons of dps, and switch only when you are the target.

Is the beacon glyph still useful even if you are not using double beacon when it only awards mana instead of holy power? I thought that swapping beacon around sunk very low on the prority list as a consequence (read: not worth to waste a glyph over).

Edited by ottishen, 12 October 2014 - 02:32 AM.

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#60 Juther

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Posted 12 October 2014 - 09:18 AM

Is the beacon glyph still useful even if you are not using double beacon when it only awards mana instead of holy power? I thought that swapping beacon around sunk very low on the prority list as a consequence (read: not worth to waste a glyph over).


Beacon gives you 10% heal on the target also.
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