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Holy Paladin in WoD, gameplay in arena.


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#1 Juther

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 08:22 AM

Did someone test it yet?

From today blue:

Is it possible to make offensive heal play viable again? Like when priests used to deal dmg from time to time to score a kill.

In general I think healer damage is going to be higher relative to MoP. PvP Power reigned it in a bit. (holinka)

any feedback?

#2 Clamnesia

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 11:51 AM

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG BRING BACK SHOCKADIN PLEASE!!!!! Also, make discs gods again.. We all know who the REAL pvp healing overlords are... Give them back their rightful crown. Shaman and druid gameplay is SOOOO BORING!
Ya know, i was born in west philadelphia. I spent most of my days on the play ground. Usually i just be chillin, relaxin, trying to act cool by shooting some b-ball at school. But on this one, terrible, dreary, horrid day, a couple of guys that were certainly up to no good starting making trouble.. I was the first one of course to step up and fight them back. Because of this, my mom got scared and made me move in with my aunt and uncle in bel-air.

#3 Shammygirl

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Posted 09 July 2014 - 12:57 PM

View PostClamnesia, on 09 July 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG BRING BACK SHOCKADIN PLEASE!!!!! Also, make discs gods again.. We all know who the REAL pvp healing overlords are... Give them back their rightful crown. Shaman and druid gameplay is SOOOO BORING!

i know this is sarcastic, or at least it looks like it is, but i really agree with you. the game is way more fun to play against the casters that have to pre-sac / pre-death before the CC rather than just tremor out of it

#4 Gigana

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 02:24 PM

So, has anyone played around with the new casttime WoG/EF?

How does it work? Does it make us too easy to lock down?

EDIT: Also, is it possible to stack enough haste to make a difference?
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#5 Repcal

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 07:29 AM

View PostGigana, on 22 July 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

So, has anyone played around with the new casttime WoG/EF?

How does it work? Does it make us too easy to lock down?

EDIT: Also, is it possible to stack enough haste to make a difference?
I personally felt like we were a little bit too easy to lock down with casted wog/ef, I was also expecting bigger numbers from a 3hp wog/ef but I was sadly mistaken. Iv decided to put together a little spreadsheet to compare Hpal's heals to other healers, it is not complete yet but here is a basic idea so far.

http://puu.sh/anm2A/5a44354938.png <- Hpal Heals, Mastery Shield included.
http://puu.sh/anm1r/8cc7c34c49.png <- Rdruid heals
http://puu.sh/anlZC/fb12676370.png <- Rsham, full health (no mastery buff)

I haven't tested the other healers yet, but as you can see their casted heals are stronger than hpals. I personally think they should revert the casted wog/ef change and make it instant again, however cut the healing output of wog/ef in half. I currently feel like im trained just as easily as a shaman, without the huge shaman heals.

#6 bbbradddd

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:40 PM

View PostShammygirl, on 09 July 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

i know this is sarcastic, or at least it looks like it is, but i really agree with you. the game is way more fun to play against the casters that have to pre-sac / pre-death before the CC rather than just tremor out of it

Didn't know you could tremor a blind, thanks man!!!!!11

#7 Juther

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:24 PM

in the last changes they buffed a bit Sacred Shield.

did anyone test it?

#8 Jim_Jim

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:43 AM

I have tried some arena and PvP on Hpal in the Beta.

- Beacon of Insight : increase the next direct heal on the target by 30% and jumps to another. It seems buggy : the Eternal Flame hot and the beacon of light redirect heals seem to activate it. In 2v2, the buff is jumping for ever. It's fun atleast :D

-Casting Eternal Flame is disturbing, but i think we can quickly adapt. The problem is, some healer doesn't seem to cast. Like priest or rdruid. Rdruid have basically our heal x2, and 90% of them are instant. (Check mmo champion to see people from PvE raging about rdruids :D). Our mobility is really poor because of this casts. So, prepared to be trained in arenas.

-The 2 part PvP is awesome, but really clunky to use. Your denounce give you the same %crit chance from your target, during 8s. The buff itself is dispellable, and if you spam denounce, you will gain 0% crit, because the denounce'd target have 0% crit during a denounce. And considering all our heal are casted and really bad, it will be difficult to maintain this buff. If this bonus works on Holy Shocks on friendly target, i think it will helps a lot.

-Avenging Wrath is THE cooldown. Nobody can die during AW, really.

-The actual 4p (One HP with a flash) will be missed, really :(

-Sacrifice / BoP / Freedom are still dispellable, so still useless. Considering offensive dispel is still free and can be used without any sacrifice for most of classes.

-The Freedom glyph is just... awesome. Reducing cc by 25% on use, and 25% after use, you can for exemple use a freedom during a deep, reduce it, and the next cc (Like sheep), will be shorter.

-The cleanse glyph is not active yet, or i haven't found it :D

The most disturbing part on Beta currently is the poor state of our heal, it's just miserable.

(Gift of the Naaru is overpowered.)

Edited by Jim_Jim, 27 July 2014 - 10:53 AM.

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Merci Stickiah.

#9 Siuox

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 10:56 AM

numbers are not balanced yet, neither talents

I guess that's why some classes suck atm

Edited by Siuox, 27 July 2014 - 10:58 AM.


#10 Feliclandelo

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:55 AM

I heard Ret is pretty solid, so I'm definetly going back to my roots

#11 Gigana

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:59 PM

Here's to hoping they revert the wog/ef casttime change, or holy will be so supremely trainable the only way to make them work would be to give them huge ass heals, like 20-100% in a heal thing, and that'd be hella boring. :[
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#12 ottishen

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:36 PM

All this is simply coming from observation, not gameplay, so I might be 100% wrong. Still, I wanted to share some theorycrafting.

View PostJim_Jim, on 27 July 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

-Avenging Wrath is THE cooldown. Nobody can die during AW, really.
Have you tried playing with the glyph (50% less cd, 50% weaker)? By looking at it, AW feels unneccessarily strong (+100% healing, +20% haste, +20% crit for people that hasn't read the notes). Maybe 50% healing and 10% crit/haste is enough, with which paladins could have wings every 1.5 mins?

How would Sanctified Wrath and Glyph of Merciful Wrath work together? You would bind all your "OH SHIT!" stuff into a single cooldown but with the 50% increased duration of wings (which does not seem to work on the beta atm), paladins would have a 30 sec duration spell with 50% healing, 10% crit chance, 10% haste and 25% reduced cd and 10% crit chance onHoly Shock (effect is reduced by the glyph), and all of this on a 1.5 min cd. This means that if used off cd, wings would have a 33% uptime. At least on paper, it sounds strong :)

Eternal Flame vs Sacred Shield:
While Eternal Flame is still a slightly stronger heal, it suffers from having a cast time. Will this make Sacred Shield more viable? As some people meintioned above, Hpaladins seems to suffer from having to cast a lot. This would add an instant cast to their arsenal.

Glyph of Denounce, a viable option?
With the set bonus of stealing crit chance from our opponents, will Glyph of Denounce see the light of day? The glyph will ensure that every ~15 seconds (assuming Holy Shock is being used off cd), Hpaladins can get a nice boost to crit chance. Once again, this is all just theorycrafting, but on paper it sounds like a viable option, especially when fighting classes which has crit as a priority stat.

#13 Juther

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 08:27 AM

View Postottishen, on 29 July 2014 - 06:36 PM, said:

Eternal Flame vs Sacred Shield:
While Eternal Flame is still a slightly stronger heal, it suffers from having a cast time. Will this make Sacred Shield more viable? As some people meintioned above, Hpaladins seems to suffer from having to cast a lot. This would add an instant cast to their arsenal.



same question here.

SS do not scales with mastery, btw it scales with pretty much every others stats.

And it is istant.

Edit: troll video https://www.youtube....h?v=yYH3ltRHrs0

#14 Zqae

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:03 AM

Mhh looks like I made the right choice by choosing to level alts for WoD. Paladins have been in a terrible state since Cataclysm took away so many things like Sacred Cleansing and that they gave magic dispel to Shamans and Druids.

Having to cast WoG/EF sounds terrible.

#15 Juther

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 07:46 AM

I've taken a look to Beta through the account of a friend, yesterday.

Created an istant lev 100 Hpal.



Word of Glory was istant cast.
(had Harsh Words Glyph slotted)



Bug or wtf?

Eternal flame still had cast time.

#16 Gigana

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Posted 11 August 2014 - 11:50 AM

Probably a bug.
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#17 Jim_Jim

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 09:53 AM

https://twitter.com/...964407643131905

Huge nerf for us incoming : No more Holy Power with tower of radiance. (The passive which gives you 1 hp when you casts something on the beacon of light.)

It's a pretty huge nerf because it will nerf 2 talents with it :

Holy Avenger, no more 30% healing increase for Flash of light and Divine Light (Holy light in WoD), and no more 3 hp with these 2 spells. You will have 3 hp only with holy shock every X (depends on how much haste you have) seconds.

Eternal Flame. Because we will have less hp generation, so less Eternal Flame to use, less healing transfers for beacon(s). And with a dispellable hot, this talent will be less important.

What's your opinion? :(

EDIT : If you wants to know about numbers :

http://i.imgur.com/rljso63.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/NaHk4da.jpg

Edited by Jim_Jim, 26 August 2014 - 10:19 AM.

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Merci Stickiah.

#18 Juther

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:15 AM

I responded to you on mmo champ :D

Not sure that EF will be so mandatory.

#19 Gigana

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:36 AM

Sounds like they're dumbing gameplay down, as beacon swaps and overall paying attention to it won't be nearly as important.

Not that it matters much, if EF/WoG remain on casttime, only masochists are gonna be playing holy in 3s anyway. GL healing yourself vs two melee when your only instant casts are prism and shock.
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#20 Jim_Jim

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Posted 26 August 2014 - 10:48 AM

Quote

I responded to you on mmo champ :D

Not sure that EF will be so mandatory.

For your question, i tried Selfless healer, and i'm on my position, it feels clunky to use judgment for buff a ridiculous spell. (As you saw, flash of light is not a huge heal.)

Don't forget we have the new 2 part for PvP, which gives you as much crit as the target you have denounced (for 8s, dispellable - again ._. -). So if you play with Beacon of Insight (Which costs a GCD too.), and you want to use selfless healer, you have to :

- Denounce something. (Glyph of Denounce feels mandatory)
- Judgment something. (30yard)
- Beacon of Insight someone.
- Cast flash of light on your mate.

It seems really clunky to do this (use 2 gcd to have 2 buffs, 2 gcd without any heal at all), just to buff a 21k flash of light. When you can just have 2 beacons, heal your team at once with an Eternal Flame on the non-beaconed guy. And use the 2 previous gcd (Judgment and Beacon of Insight) to cast something else. Rsham use this now, but they are rewarded : Riptide, Unleash elements, and here come the huuuuge heal.

I playing with 2511 spirit now because of that. Because despite what people says about our gameplay, we have a smart healing gameplay, we have to make choice, to switch our beacon everytime, to use EF and Holy shock smartly to heal 2 peoples at one, to save mana. We are not Holy priest who use their healing spell when something is glowing on their bar.

I'm worried about the future.

(And Gigana, i'm a masochist, i will always play my paladin. :D)

If beacon of insight was just a passive buff to Beacon of Light (Imagine : increase healing by 30% when you heal beacon of light), and still give one HP, it will be a great choice between having a passive direct heal increase, or a AoE healing increase. Healing a dotcleave will be easier with 2 beacons, but you direct heal will still remains miserable. Etc etc...

Edited by Jim_Jim, 26 August 2014 - 10:54 AM.

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