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How to beat Unholy Dk as Ret


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#1 Skruul

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:06 PM

Hello, I find myself in a lot of 1v1s as ret and usually if I can keep myself topped I can turn the tide and score the kill.
However I have been noticing it feels borderline impossible to beat any competent UH Dks as ret.
I have tried blinding gargoyle and ghoul at same time, I've tried fearing pets, I have tried kiting, I have even tried using wings/avenger together to burst and heal at the same time in hopes of swapping the pressure back in my favor while staying high on hp.
Even if I stagger cooldowns it always seems that the dk can heal through my damage with conversion and I always end up low on health and unable to heal through necrotics and the soul reaper always gets me.

I know it must be possible to beat UH but I am in sore need of some kind of better strategy. Any tips or advice from other experienced paladins would be much appreciated.

TLDR; strats or advice on how to beat UH Dk as Ret

#2 Forumz

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:12 PM

You can't win. You will have to trinket the first asphyx, and then you'll have to bubble shortly afterwards because of the DR'd gnaw while Gargoyle is machine-gunning 60k+ crits, and now the DK still has Lichborne selfheals, Conversion, and, if he actually needs it (which he shouldn't), he has Blood Presence. You will die about 10 seconds after bubble if not sooner.

Your only option is to pop Guardian instantly when the duel begins and try to RNG all over the DK. If you get lucky and crit everything you might be able to kill him through all of his defensives.

Edited by Forumz, 08 July 2014 - 06:17 PM.

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#3 Skruul

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:24 PM

Usually I sit first asphyx and use divine protection while he's bursting and try to blind the pets, I dont die quickly to UH its just the fact that I can win the long games.
I'll try popping guardian first off now so at least I can gain charges while Im in asphyx, I didnt think about that.
As a dk, which part about fighting a decent ret is the most pain in the ass for you?
Should I start at range and force chains/grips/stuns early?

#4 Forumz

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:30 PM

Just keep running away, HoJ him a few seconds after grip while you're running with freedom and judgment sprint so you deny his second grip and you can kite for a little while longer. Only come into melee range during burst really.

And keep your cleanse button on cd.

Edited by Forumz, 08 July 2014 - 06:34 PM.

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#5 Skruul

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 06:41 PM

alright thanks for the advice
wtb necrotic cleanses

#6 Avengelyne

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 07:33 PM

Not that dueling really matters but if you do it right you can win 1v1.

You're going to want to do a few things:

First is take Sanctified Wrath. The reason is DKs have a absolutely absurd amount of parry and their defenses nullifies a large portion of Wings.. Sanctified is guaranteed damage where holy avenger can get nulified if he has braincells.

Second thing is make sure you do indeed blind the big pet + gargoyle.

Third thing is make sure you rebuke and turn evil the gargoyle. Remember aura mastery is 20% magic reduction as well.

Fourth thing is don't get stuck in an asphyxiate.. Forbearance is 1 min. Asphyx is 30 sec. That means you can BoP/bubble first, trinket second and have a third out (either bop or bubble whichever you didnt use) for the third asphyx. Gives you 2 mins to kill DK

Fifth thing is to use kiting to eliminate necrotic strike. Seriously, it lasts 10 seconds. Even if he has 300k of necros on you, they can fall off.

Sixth thing is you're going to want divine shield glyph and unbreakable spirit. Use your divine protection on CD, remember BoP removed necros also.

Seventh thing is cleanse diseases.. your one global will save you healing and cost him damage/globals to put them back up.. try to figure out when is a best time.

Eighth thing is Hand of Salvation is a nice manaless tool to remove dark sim. If you're stunned and need to bubble with dark sim Hand of Freedom yourself before bubble. If you let yourself get into a situation where your simmed and have to bubble or die you fucked up.

Ninth thing is keep your buffs up.. Might is probably better early duel but if u have to rebuff later i'd recommend kings since you can survive a bit easier with it. More parry, better heals. More judgement and exo dmg since HoW can't be used later really and CS will be avoided half the time.

Tenth thing is use HoJ on CD, maybe even worth using it on gargoyle early on. Depends if DK is using 2 trinkets and desecrates/trinkets the Blind If you rebuke it for 4 sec, blind it, hoj it, bubble 8 sec, turn evil 4 sec end of bubble, rebuke again, garge shouldnt do shit. Use your brain. If DK uses an out for blind hoj him if not hoj wont matter maybe use on Garg. ES will break blind so be careful.

Dk will have infinity outs anyway maybe worth it.. not sure. Idea I had just now maybe i'll test.



I hope some tips helped. In conclusion 1v1 you can win with the right talents and tactics. You have to be good and dexterous, you're going to need to mouseover focus kick it maintaining HoW every 2.5 sec.. making sure ES goes up with trinket proc and crusader strike buff. If you cannot do your rotation spot on you will die. If you're a champion and do everything your class is capable of you will win. Good luck :)

Edited by Avengelyne, 08 July 2014 - 07:53 PM.

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View Postgravyrainbow, on 08 October 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

I prefer combat because my dong is large and I will face the enemy like a man rather than sprint over to a pillar for a re after my opener is up.

#7 Skruul

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 08:27 PM

Thank you very much for the strategy advice, that was exactly what I was looking for. I can survive for quite a while vs Unholy I was simply having trouble sealing the deal.

Avengelyne, which classes give you the most trouble 1v1? and what sorts of things do you do to counter them? We might as well have a ret strategy thread, to help educate our brothers and sisters out there who enjoy ret but dont know how to make the most of it.

Also on the topic of seals, why do so many rets just sit in truth 100% of the time? I keep seeing rets in game that complain about hunters and mages but I feel like I have no trouble with kiting classes when I sit in justice vs them. I feel like sitting in justice primarily is the way to go especially since ret ends up kiting a lot of the time or trying to stick to targets that dont want you to put it all the way in.

#8 Zatkkat

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Posted 08 July 2014 - 11:46 PM

I just want to add that if you are strictly fighting the dk 1v1 alone, you really don't want to use Justice or Glyph of Burden of Guilt, because DK pvp set bonus grants passive runic power regeneration(3 RP per sec). Conversion costs 5 RP per sec.

Secondly, I just like to sit in Seal of Insight against DKs, as at 550 with SS(important to SS during trinket buff for fat absorbs), and Unbreakable Spirit(reducing DP cooldown), and appropriate amount of positioning(avoiding gargoyle by running around pillars)

Thirdly, you want to do that dance of survival until your CDs are back. If DK makes a mistake of wasting AMS on anything, you must capitalize on that. When CDs are back, you want to dump damage into a HOJ obviously and hope that things critted.




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