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#361 Animefreak3K

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Posted Yesterday, 01:11 PM

Quote

I don't see any reason for using DS in arena.

If you don't break CC with DS, and have nothing others (which hits harder) ready, feel free to use DS. Only the Procc, not with 3HP.
If you're using the Glyphe "Divine Storm" it's a really good choice to use DS instead of something else - if you need the Heal.

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Animefreak's point is that it's good to have a solid defensive option

Something like that.
I normally play with DP+FV.
But Emp. Seal will give you so much possibilities to play.
It's the Hybrid way, a Ret Paladin is designed.

Is it viable to play? We maybe never know, because no one (at higher ratings) will play like this.

Quote

That was my point earlier. You're using a phrase that means you should be more aggressive instead of defensive. So how does that support your cause? I don't understand. You want to play very defensively with EmpSeals, so how does this expressions work in your favour? It directly contradicts you. I'm not sure you understand it.

I'm sorry, but it's you, who don't understand ;) .

Do you know Football? You can turtle there, playing very, very defensive against a very strong Team. The other Team is running on your goal, but your defense is so good, they (maybe) won't score.
But you're able to counter them. After being so offensive - many players are in your half of the field - you get the ball and starting a counterattack.

In WoW it's similar :) .
My Enemy is blowing everything on me, i survive because of my defense (mostly through healing), and than it's my chance.
I still gets damage, it hey tries to blow me up.

There're many ways to play.
I'm still trying many way, even "strange" ones.
I'm not forcing someone into them, if just let people know, there're other ways to play and (maybe/definitly) win.

#362 Feliclandelo

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Posted Yesterday, 05:04 PM

What, now people are going to play with Divine Purpose? Really?

Yeah sure your DS is allright when used as a free proc, but that just goes in favour of playing with FV. I just can't see how people can still defend using EmpSeals in a 3v3 scenario where the heal is completly useless, a sprint where you 1. alrdy have one 2. need to use 3 globals to get and for a haste buff? The AP buff I can understand but really, losing out on a finisher that stacks so well with HA and ignores all armor and buffs a proc? You keep talking about cleaving and shit. Why would you do that in 3v3? Its useless meter padding.

Yes Animefreak, a good defense can counter, but this is WoW not american football or soccer. You can't turtle with Seal of Insight, what is it that you think is so strong about a honestly terrible HoT? The best way to win a game is to have pressure and CC, always been. You don't sit behind a pillar in Ret comps waiting to re-stealth, and everyone knows to line big CDs from Mages etc, its common sense. But good luck with your 1% heal per 2 second. Also if you duel people who forget to use defensive cds, or do not watch their health, you dueled people who belong in the 1200 bracket. It's nowhere NEAR a solid defensive option lol. It might be a fun way to play a hybrid, but it will be absolutely dreadful in arena if you consider the pros and cons. Make the buffs last 30 second and we can talk.

Really, can we get some reasons as to why the Damage from EmpSeals is good, instead of talking about a 3100 tick or a 3-global speed increase. Is the haste that beneficial? Its 15% and in starting gear you won't have very much haste by the looks of how PvE results are looking.

#363 Crono_Smash

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Posted Yesterday, 05:30 PM

View PostFeliclandelo, on 22 October 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

What, now people are going to play with Divine Purpose? Really?

Yeah sure your DS is allright when used as a free proc, but that just goes in favour of playing with FV. I just can't see how people can still defend using EmpSeals in a 3v3 scenario where the heal is completly useless, a sprint where you 1. alrdy have one 2. need to use 3 globals to get and for a haste buff? The AP buff I can understand but really, losing out on a finisher that stacks so well with HA and ignores all armor and buffs a proc? You keep talking about cleaving and shit. Why would you do that in 3v3? Its useless meter padding.

Yes Animefreak, a good defense can counter, but this is WoW not american football or soccer. You can't turtle with Seal of Insight, what is it that you think is so strong about a honestly terrible HoT? The best way to win a game is to have pressure and CC, always been. You don't sit behind a pillar in Ret comps waiting to re-stealth, and everyone knows to line big CDs from Mages etc, its common sense. But good luck with your 1% heal per 2 second. Also if you duel people who forget to use defensive cds, or do not watch their health, you dueled people who belong in the 1200 bracket. It's nowhere NEAR a solid defensive option lol. It might be a fun way to play a hybrid, but it will be absolutely dreadful in arena if you consider the pros and cons. Make the buffs last 30 second and we can talk.

Really, can we get some reasons as to why the Damage from EmpSeals is good, instead of talking about a 3100 tick or a 3-global speed increase. Is the haste that beneficial? Its 15% and in starting gear you won't have very much haste by the looks of how PvE results are looking.

EmpSeals is a option because it gives you flexibility at the cost of complexity.

EmpJustice mobility makes us run at druid travel form stacked with LAotL. It's a solid option even to FC on RBGs because of freedom and decent healing. You always kite and never get kited with it.

EmpInsight IS WEAK. Need to be at least 2%. But it's a number problem. Remember you can EmpJustice to start kiting, than you you EmpInsight and get behind the pillar with a HoT, faster casting and increased healing values.

Seraph survivability depends on it being off CD and you having HoPo for it, so if people know when it's your down time, you're screwed.

---

All 3 talents have up and downsides.

EmpSeals is really hard to play, but gives you the most flexibility.

Seraph makes you much stronger and weaker on certain windows of time.

FV only gives you ofensive pressure, but it's easy to play.

Got it?

---

Now, if you read the thread you know EmpSeals don't take 3GCDs. Takes 2 and 1 is compensated by the haste it gives. Why? Well, you don't have to swap back to Truth, as long as you have Truth and Right buffs up, you can play. You only spend a GCD to Truth and then to Right every 20s if all you want is to DPS.

It's high maintanance but you'll have better healing, faster casting and your damage buff goes to everything, not just FV/DS and there is no downtime if you don't want or mess up.

Your brain and fingers have to work really faster, but remember that you're spending the time of only 1 extra GCD every 20s. With Seraph you spend 1 GCD every 30s and nothing for FV but there is no survivability/flexibility.

And for the dinamic of "time to make pressure" and "time to get out of trouble", you can adapt on the go.

If you play on decent ratings, you know that the value of ofensive and defensive changes a lot during the course of the fight. If you can offer solid ofensive during ofensive times and better defensive on defensive times, then why not? Well, because it's hard as fuck and the numbers don't add up to a decent number.

Make EmpSeals buffs last for 30s and have max of 3 at the same time. Or remove the GCD of Seal of Truth. And make EmpInsight 2% at least. I've said this more times than I can count, but they didn't do it.

Still, the talent is not bad. It's just badly tunned.
Posted Image

-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#364 Animefreak3K

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Posted Yesterday, 05:37 PM

@Felric

Why are you so mad? Only, because your mind isn't That open as mine is?
If you don't (want?) to understand, please stop discussing.

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this is WoW not american football or soccer

Right, but its' always the same. If you can't break the defense of your enemy, you will loose over time, because you will give up your defense.

#365 Feliclandelo

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Posted Yesterday, 09:00 PM

We need to give people solid advice in here and I could swear I just read someone suggesting flag carrying as a Ret. I don't mind different opinions, and Im sure as hell not upset with you. I just find it incredible that you can't see how bad the healing actually is.

Also picking a talent that only gives you speed increase as long as you stack 3 Holy Power in Arena is absolutely awful.

HA is also the go-to talent, no doubt. You can set up Seraph or FV pretty well from there. Your burst is controllable.

Edit: Frustrated is a good word.

Edited by Feliclandelo, Yesterday, 09:01 PM.


#366 Animefreak3K

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Posted Yesterday, 10:25 PM

I'm sorry, but you still understand things wrong, written down by me.

Why do you assert that i don't see, that the healing is actually low?
You don't know me, you don't get what i'm talking about. And you also ignoring thinks, written down by me.

I'm still objectiv, but you aren't. Why? What's your're Problem?

I'm still talking about alternatives and abilities itself, and in which ways they are useful/can/could be useful.

But you're still always talking about the same - nothing new.

Nobody said i'm right, nobody said your're wrong.
We're still discussing everything about Ret Paladins here.

#367 Luminant

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Posted Today, 04:23 AM

This is the largest discussion of 1234 I've ever seen




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