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#1 Crono_Smash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:10 PM

So, I've got into Beta.

First thing I know is that a lot of people have lots of questions and really want to test (myself included) so I'm making this a open place for people to ask me to test anything.

So far, I feel the gameplay more fluid with less CC and too simple without Inquisition.

I miss Blinding Light for the last CC for the kill or for peels mostly.

30s Forbearance don't seem like a big deal, but on 2s it can be a life saver...

And HoW is up for much longer, increasing our ranged pressure.

Damage on numbers (just made the math for lvl90 so far) is about the same as with Inq up on MoP. We have more Mastery but less Haste. I really miss addons.

The biggest thing I think it's that with less CC and 90s Hand of Sac, we're a huge dispel powerhouse. Not to mention the Hand of Freedom Glyphs (one to reduce it's CD to 25s and the other to reduce CC duration by 25%).

Ret can really keep the team avaliable for healing and DPSing - I think this was suposed to be the design for MoP.

Still feels like damage and healing is weak on lvl 100, but I'll do the math and compare the % damage and healing we do on max lvl pvp gear.

So, anything you want me to test, calc, want to ask - please do so. I know it's still fairly early Beta but I'm avaliable for you guys ;D

/hugs
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#2 Neosaurfang

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:14 PM

So much for veteran players getting beta invites first, rofl blizzard is such a joke.
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#3 Crono_Smash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:20 PM

I've got it on a giveaway on MMORPG site. I'm making myself avaliable for you guys. Not enough?
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#4 Forumz

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 01:36 PM

View PostCrono_Smash, on 07 July 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

I've got it on a giveaway on MMORPG site. I'm making myself avaliable for you guys. Not enough?
People will complain about everything.

I have a Ret friend who is sure to have some questions he'd like answered at some point. I'll post here when I got something for you.
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#5 Thazable

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:08 PM

Since damage is already being tested by you, I'm pretty interested in how much we actually heal, there was some stuff done to ret heals, which looked like they simply got buffed by a noticable percentage. I saw some beta streams and it looked like hybrid heal is pretty strong, so simple questions:

In comparison to ret paladins current capability of healing, do we heal more or less?
Do you think it is possible to outheal some dps as long as they don't have CD's up?
Do eternal flame or sacred shield look any good?

Also for a question which isn't about heal, if you freedom yourself two times in a row while sitting any CC, will the duration be reduced by both freedoms or just by the first?

Thanks in advance. :)
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#6 Call Me Teranaye

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:37 PM

is ret/hunt strong?

always remember that you're still garbage


#7 Crono_Smash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:39 PM

Double post
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#8 Crono_Smash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:41 PM

Okz, tnx Evelin o/

View PostThazable, on 07 July 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Since damage is already being tested by you, I'm pretty interested in how much we actually heal, there was some stuff done to ret heals, which looked like they simply got buffed by a noticable percentage. I saw some beta streams and it looked like hybrid heal is pretty strong, so simple questions:

In comparison to ret paladins current capability of healing, do we heal more or less?
Do you think it is possible to outheal some dps as long as they don't have CD's up?
Do eternal flame or sacred shield look any good?

Also for a question which isn't about heal, if you freedom yourself two times in a row while sitting any CC, will the duration be reduced by both freedoms or just by the first?

Thanks in advance. :)

Great questions!

I'll do the math for lvl 100 when I come home from work. But I don't think we can outheal DPS so far... I've made a couple of Skirmishes and we're fine for off healing as always, but I think we could use some buff on WoG (on live also, on top of the 30% done).

Still, with EmpSeals, our Seal of Justice give us some insane survivability because of mobility and Seal of Insight heals for OK, not awesome but is really worth swaping.

The gameplay feels empty without the seals and a little overwhelming with them. Since I think we'll be using EmpsSeals, we'll just have a solid stance mindset: Damage, Heal, Move. The skillcap will increase.

Ah, and I didn't test EF and SS yet, but I got a feeling SH will be king anyway because of utility and our FoL is buffed by a Perk.

About Freedom, we'll se... going to be hard to see because of so short duration of it, but'll do my best ;D

---

Here is how I'm making the math to compare live to beta:

On lvl 90 (I know this is not what's important to us, but I've made it because I'll do both 90 Pridefull and 100 conquest gear), if I remember right, the squish reduced our health pool to 12% of live total. And I'm always with Inq up for calculus.

So if:

On live we have 1000 life, our CS hits for 100 damage.
On beta we have 120 life, our CS should hit for 12 damage - if hits more/less I'll say it's stronger/weaker and how much.

I'll do this for all damage and healing spells. It's OK? It's the right way to do it?

And I'll just post here a comparison between lvl 90 and lvl 100 full conquest gear.
Posted Image

-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#9 Forumz

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:48 PM

View PostCrono_Smash, on 07 July 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

On lvl 90 (I know this is not what's important to us, but I've made it because I'll do both 90 Pridefull and 100 conquest gear), if I remember right, the squish reduced our health pool to 12% of live total. And I'm always with Inq up for calculus.
They also doubled healthpools compared to how it is now; gotta keep that in mind. Unless the 12% is accounting for that.

Edited by Forumz, 07 July 2014 - 02:48 PM.

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#10 CaramélBear

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 02:49 PM

View PostNeosaurfang, on 07 July 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

So much for veteran players getting beta invites first, rofl blizzard is such a joke.

So wait you'd rather have someone who has no intention of doing what this guy is than someone willing answer question for people who don't have access?

and Crono i haven't been keeping up much on the updates but what potential is there in final verdict? empseals seem's quite good but i'd imagine final verdict would be interested vs some classes.

Edited by CaramélBear, 07 July 2014 - 02:52 PM.


#11 Neosaurfang

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 03:55 PM

View PostCaramélBear, on 07 July 2014 - 02:49 PM, said:

So wait you'd rather have someone who has no intention of doing what this guy is than someone willing answer question for people who don't have access?

and Crono i haven't been keeping up much on the updates but what potential is there in final verdict? empseals seem's quite good but i'd imagine final verdict would be interested vs some classes.

It was not directed towards him as a player, it was more of what blizzard said they would do. What he is doing is obviously good and benefits more then 1 player.
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#12 Crono_Smash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 04:57 PM

View PostForumz, on 07 July 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

They also doubled healthpools compared to how it is now; gotta keep that in mind. Unless the 12% is accounting for that.

Not accounting for that. But the reason I'm making this way is to measure the threat of our damage. Like, live a CS deals 5% of total healthpool damage and beta deals 7% kind of math. You think I should make it different? How excatcly?


Quote

and Crono i haven't been keeping up much on the updates but what potential is there in final verdict? empseals seem's quite good but i'd imagine final verdict would be interested vs some classes.

FV is great for damage as non physical and for burst. I'd say it's about 20% stronger TV - the feels like a finisher people have been asking for. But since it's just damage, it's hard to compare to the versatility we need for mobility and healing. Of course for just "get in and burst 'em all" gameplay is awesome, plus it's super simple. Most casuals will use it. And maybe the best option agains plate guys out there. But it's maybe too soon to know.


Quote

It was not directed towards him as a player, it was more of what blizzard said they would do. What he is doing is obviously good and benefits more then 1 player.

Yeah man, we could make a whole site just to list everything Blizz is doing wrong for no reason (my fingers hurt since 2011 QQing for Ret RBG viability) but until we're rich enough to buy Blizz and do what we want, we should just focus on sticking together and helping eachother put up the best feedback and knowledege for Ret PVP out there ;D

I know it sucks, Blizz give keys for sites that gives them however they want... people sell it, there everything happening. Here is how I got the info to get it.

http://www.mmo-champ...tain-a-Beta-Key

If you (or anyone) want it bad enough, you should check it because there is more to come ;D

/love
Posted Image

-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#13 Crono_Smash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:18 PM

View PostCall Me Teranaye, on 07 July 2014 - 02:37 PM, said:

is ret/hunt strong?

Not sure because I didn't test it, but I'm betting it's not.

The game should stop being "let's CC the healer and burst someone down" to a more sustained gameplay - arenas should take much longer.

I'd say Ret will be awesome with DK and Enhance. But that's just from looking at patch notes, we'll see when I get to test it properly.
Posted Image

-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#14 Forumz

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:19 PM

View PostCrono_Smash, on 07 July 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

Not accounting for that. But the reason I'm making this way is to measure the threat of our damage. Like, live a CS deals 5% of total healthpool damage and beta deals 7% kind of math. You think I should make it different? How excatcly?

Interesting. Is that at level 90 or at level 100? I was expecting it to come out around half of live damage; but I do vaguely recall them saying that they were completely redoing all of the scaling and stuff.


View PostCrono_Smash, on 07 July 2014 - 05:18 PM, said:

I'd say Ret will be awesome with DK
This will make my Ret friend very happy if it's true. We love playing DK/Ret together and if it'll be strong once again that'd be great!

Edited by Forumz, 07 July 2014 - 05:20 PM.

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#15 Crono_Smash

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:35 PM

View PostForumz, on 07 July 2014 - 05:19 PM, said:

Interesting. Is that at level 90 or at level 100? I was expecting it to come out around half of live damage; but I do vaguely recall them saying that they were completely redoing all of the scaling and stuff.



This will make my Ret friend very happy if it's true. We love playing DK/Ret together and if it'll be strong once again that'd be great!

12% is on lvl 90 Pridefull MoP to 100% on WoD. Like, 356k life on Live and 42k on WoD when you transfer your char.

On lvl 100 full gear I think its about 80%, We're with about 290k life... remember this is after squish, after double health, after fully leveling and gearing. Makes sense if you look at math, but sucks to explain.

I'll detail everything later today, I hope. Maybe even go live on my twitch so we can look at this together and answer things live ;D
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-> In short: "Balance is make 6-7 specs balanced to compete and let the rest nerfed but make it playable so maybe some exeptional professional players can compete with a nerfed spec." = Blizz supports FOTM.

#16 Neosaurfang

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 05:37 PM

View PostCrono_Smash, on 07 July 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

Yeah man, we could make a whole site just to list everything Blizz is doing wrong for no reason (my fingers hurt since 2011 QQing for Ret RBG viability) but until we're rich enough to buy Blizz and do what we want, we should just focus on sticking together and helping eachother put up the best feedback and knowledege for Ret PVP out there ;D

I know it sucks, Blizz give keys for sites that gives them however they want... people sell it, there everything happening. Here is how I got the info to get it.

http://www.mmo-champ...tain-a-Beta-Key

If you (or anyone) want it bad enough, you should check it because there is more to come ;D

/love

we are richer then them, all the money they are made of is a portion of what we all have together. But then again that does not really matter.
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#17 Animefreak3K

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:21 PM

Quote

So much for veteran players getting beta invites first

I think there was a bluepost about that - intended.

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In comparison to ret paladins current capability of healing, do we heal more or less?

Less than on live. With emp. Seals our overall heal goes up the air.
Passive healings aren't balanced.


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Do you think it is possible to outheal some dps as long as they don't have CD's up?

If you can kite, maybe. With emp. Seal, should be possible.

Quote

Do eternal flame or sacred shield look any good?

Both are ok, but no match for selfless healer, still. Eternal flame can multistrike, but it's not worth

#18 Animefreak3K

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:26 PM

Quote

if you freedom yourself two times in a row while sitting any CC, will the duration be reduced by both freedoms or just by the first?

It's not possible, you gain a buff that doesn't stack. Even if this would work, you would be silly, du use it this way ;) .

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is ret/hunt strong?

Yes it's still strong. Maybe stronger than on live, because Huntes get more slows and passive Healings aren't balance (as i mentioned before).

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Still, with EmpSeals, our Seal of Justice give us some insane survivability because of mobility and Seal of Insight heals for OK, not awesome but is really worth swaping.

And kinda op, because of the massive heal you gain - through the hole fight.

The buff from SoJ with emp. seals can be combinated with pursuit of justice. Very nice ;) .

#19 Avengelyne

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:31 PM

View PostAnimefreak3K, on 07 July 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

Both are ok, but no match for selfless healer, still. Eternal flame can multistrike, but it's not worth

To be honest I would prefer it for only one to be relevant. As much as i'd like good self heals, imagine if the other team has a few brain cells and they realize you're not selfless healer so they plug the numbers in the equation and decide to kill your partner instead and since you cannot off heal as well.

Edited by Avengelyne, 07 July 2014 - 07:58 PM.

http://www.twitch.tv/avengtv -- Follow for Ret 3v3 Arenas on Live and Beta!


View Postgravyrainbow, on 08 October 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

I prefer combat because my dong is large and I will face the enemy like a man rather than sprint over to a pillar for a re after my opener is up.

#20 Animefreak3K

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Posted 07 July 2014 - 07:34 PM

Quote

what potential is there in final verdict? empseals seem's quite good but i'd imagine final verdict would be interested vs some classes.

It has a huge potential! But, we need crit and/or many holy power. I could crit for 45-50K with CD's and buffs. Divine purpose helps here alot! Give your enemy 3-4 FV's in a raw and - even without CD's - it'll hurt much! Don't forget the much higher mastery that goes with it, and multistrike. Total damage can easily goes up to 60+k.
It's even great for kiting, because your debuff from Seal of Justice will appear after a FV.

Quote

I'd say it's about 20% stronger TV

It's much stronger! Trust me, i'm running always with it :D . Overall it's about 80-100% more damage, than TV. Don't forget, FV is a meleeattack, that does holydamage. TV does not.

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We love playing DK/Ret together and if it'll be strong once again that'd be great!

DK nerfs are on the way :) .
Looks like only the heal will be nerfed. Try to kill a Blood-DK. Impossible :) .
Samge goes for Guardian Druids, and some other Speccs.




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