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[WoD Rogue] REAL Disucssion and Insights from 2400+ Rogues

Rogue Wod 2400 Gladiator Talents L100 Talents Venom Zest Shadowy Apparition Death from Above

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#1 Oversap

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 09:44 PM

Who is Nova?: My handle is "Nova", started in Vanilla, played through to Wrath. I've played on Hydraxis, Black Dragonflight (where I gained most of my pvp experience) and Tich (where my rogue resides now in "Hey I'm Mvp". Played 1 week Cata, about two months of MoP. The majority of my experience 2400 was Mage/Rogue and PMR.

Why posted here?: Apparently I'd have to reactivate my wow account to verify my rogue to be able to post elsewhere. I dont care to pay blizzard to activate my rogue so I can post elsewhere. I'm waiting for WoD.

As a rogue that has played every expansion (except for the one rogues seemed most OP..ie: cata) I feel that I have a unique insight into the class, and its mechanics.

The problem is, with the information coming out pertaining to WoD, I cant find anyone online that has alpha access that has atleast some form of gladiator experience on the rogue class.

The purpose of this post is to generate genuine discussion of where the rogue class is headed, and how our gameplay and mechanics will change in WoD.

It seems, WoD, with the deflation of abilities, the stat crunch, the deflation of crowd control mechanics, and other changes, that the rogue class is going to be in a similar place as it was in Burning Crusade / Wrath... THIS IS GREAT. I'm sure many players can agree that the game became too bursty, too instantcraft, and too blow your cooldowns for a kill.

For those of us that remember, rogues didnt have to blow major cooldowns to land a kill previously, and the fact that our cooldowns happen to be longer than most of the other classes bursts and heals, seems to put us a step behind.

On to the guts of the topic, lets discuss the talents @ L100 and where rogues may end up.

First of all, discussing Venom Zest.
From what I can see, this may actually end up being a viable talent. I have a feeling that mutilate may in fact make a comeback and I see the energy regeneration as nothing more than helpful to the mutilate spec, which is heavy poison dmg anyway. With the addition of so many pets you see in arena, it seems as if an occasional FoK spread could indeed grant %15 more energy regen for a time, and the aditional energy pool (i've heard with glyphs you can reach 185?). Additionally, as combat, I can see instances where bladeflurry used with venom zest could be used, and most probably that will be the PVE implimentation. We all know as rogues, we always want more energy, faster. I'm not very sure where this talent can leave us, and I'm interested to hear what other top rogues have to say about it.

Secondly, Shadowy Apparitions.
Now, at first glance, every rogue out there is going to LOVE this ability. Quite honestly I would be amazed if they allow this go to past beta. Now the first thing that comes to mind is obviously, killing spree. Combat, allbeit cumbersome and clunky, has a real pvp viability to anyone who can play it, and have partners that understand the way combat works currently. One only has to stop by woundman's stream to see upwards of 2600 play, with combat being extremly viable. With REDBUFF, and Trinkets/Engi rolling + Stun10% Dmg(prey on the weak) killing spree can do some serious damage. I'm wondering if the shadowy apparaition will also have the benefit of those buffs that were rolling? Also, I havent seen anyone mention the fact that the shadow will obviously run into diminishing returns on stuns. No one has discussed what a proper burst rotation will look like in a pvp setting, taking into account that the stuns put out fromt he shadow will obviously DR. Beyond the implications of killing spree as combat we can further delve into the implications of a rogue playing sub. Take for instance this scenario: You're running PMR vs WMD. You are dumping damage into the warrior and you pop shadow. As your shadow procs, you vanish and sprint/shs/bos over to the druid and begin a basic stunlock rotation CS/KS/Gouge to effectively prevent healing. Your mage however continues to pound the warrior with the help of your shadow, not to mention you have blind/dance to control the mage, as you are stun-locking the druid. I see the shadow (when used with sub) to allow the rogue to extend it's ability to control other classes, while still providing an 8 second window of burst. Secondly, anything you can imagine a rogue doing damage wise, imagine it twice. Imagine a sub rogue opener that lasts 8 seconds longer. Additionally, as mutilate, this could provide alot of sustained damage. No one has discussed these mechanics in detail and I wish I could find a place where more knowledgeable rogues could speak on the topic.

Lastly, but best of all, Death from Above.
Now looking at it apparently its a 50% strronger evisc on cooldown (20sec). But I see so much more potential for this talent. If you could imagine for a moment, a mutilate rogue from wrath, who can also now shadowstep and prep... but give him yet another gap-closing ability?! As a rogue you all know that being on your target is EVERYTHING. Time spent off-target must only be for energy regen, surviving for some reason, or getting a RE. Not to mention the implications as sub. With a 20 second cooldown, this could, in effect, be ANOTHER shadowstep. Making the rogue class even harder to peel. I'm less impressed with the graphical effects of the ability, and more impressed in it's range. When your shadowstep is on cooldown, you can use a 1cp DFA to close a gap, instead of using it as a damage finisher. I have yet to see anyone discuss the potential in this respect.

With the changes planned, I have the feeling that the rogue class is not only going to be in a great place for pvp, but also revert to a more skillful playstyle that is less dependant on cooldowns based "burst for kill" mechanics.

Hopefully, someone, that plays rogue in high ratings will have something to add to what I have said. I can go into more theory and crafting. Hoping for some feedback,

Novaee - L90 UD Rogue US-Tich
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#2 sounds

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 10:43 PM

The problem is, with the information coming out pertaining to WoD, I cant find anyone online that has alpha access that has atleast some form of gladiator experience on the rogue class.


Pretty sure I remember reading that Tosan and Rzn got invites to that level 100 pvp realm or whatever, not sure where though.

Could try looking them up on twitch.tv
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#3 Oversap

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 01:50 AM

I was hoping for more, text based discussion, here...

I'm wondering also, if shadowstep used with death from above wont provide the rogue with basically two shadow-steps.

This would make an excellent anti-mage approach, making landing a KS after blink easier!
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#4

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 02:44 AM

Well to be honest this is AJ which basicly is all about Ayra's KFC, someone bitching about jaimie, russian wintraders or RBG ddosing.
But to the least I'll leave a reply here for you.

By the looks of it Death from Above looks to be the strongest talent for us rogues, considering another step is ridicule. I think Shadowy Apparations only applies to your combo gen abilities and combo use abilities. Meaning you can dance and you'll still get those ambushes etc etc, but not Killing Spree. I could be wrong, I could be very wrong!

But to be honest Death from Above really seems to be a great talent, I think it will solve our mobility problems and I hope they remove BoS which is absurdly retarded.
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Shit game is shit :) btw Butthex, ur still a nobody, thx for reminding me to fix my shit sign

#5 varellz

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:17 PM

death from above looks looks really strong in terms of gap closing while bursting, didn't saw the other talents though
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#6 Goatsie

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:19 PM

BoS which is absurdly retarded.

I agree on BoS. Played with it when I came back, and I found it really awesome. But I was like, let's give a try to ShadowStep.
And it is actually 10 times better in 3's, imho. You can cross kick easely ("who the hell play with Shadowstep anymore ?" - healers don't expect that from you).
Gap closer is really awesome vs Mage / Hunter and Druid.. nah, let them delete BoS, i couldn't care less.

To OP :
Major problem over MOP is that they gave EVERYTHING to EVERYONE without having to mind about their energy bar (Maybe my PoV is biased since I play rogue, but I feel like the only class that REALLY HAS to take care of my power bar.)


If i was you, I wouldn't worry too much on an ALPHA : c'mon... this doesn't represent half of WoD. Let's wait for the early beta access to start QQing.
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#7 bronsolino

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 12:55 PM

who
Sorry, your post must be at least 2 word(s) long.
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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Rogue, Wod, 2400, Gladiator, Talents, L100 Talents, Venom Zest, Shadowy Apparition, Death from Above

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