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#21 Jalopy

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:13 PM

Honestly with how CS/MS both cost rage and how CS can eat half your bar in a GCD, I can see that being really fucking annoying, especially since our only rage generator will be AA.
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#22 Pinka

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 10:35 PM

According to the perks CS generates 10 rage.
But since overpower and slam are among those aswell they prob already changed them.

I just do not seem to get why we do not get a filler. If whirlwind is going to be our filler its gonna feel akward. Being forced to break cc in order to do dmg.

But i do see the intend of blizzard. They basicly removed most passive dmg. Mastery/ bleed. But increased burst but we are not allowed to use it frequent nor make it spammable. Basicly just burst once every 20 seconds. And MS every 6. Both have high weapon dmg and are even increased further with mastery.
Then whirlwind to avoid ragecap. Or spam it if you want to have an improvised bladestorm :D

Edited by Pinka, 25 June 2014 - 10:50 PM.

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#23 Jalopy

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 11:57 PM

According to the perks CS generates 10 rage.
But since overpower and slam are among those aswell they prob already changed them.

I just do not seem to get why we do not get a filler. If whirlwind is going to be our filler its gonna feel akward. Being forced to break cc in order to do dmg.

But i do see the intend of blizzard. They basicly removed most passive dmg. Mastery/ bleed. But increased burst but we are not allowed to use it frequent nor make it spammable. Basicly just burst once every 20 seconds. And MS every 6. Both have high weapon dmg and are even increased further with mastery.
Then whirlwind to avoid ragecap. Or spam it if you want to have an improvised bladestorm :D


From what I heard from a friend, CS costs 10 rage now. I'll find out whenever alpha servers come up, never at this rate.
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#24 Ezyo1000

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 12:15 AM

According to the perks CS generates 10 rage.
But since overpower and slam are among those aswell they prob already changed them.

I just do not seem to get why we do not get a filler. If whirlwind is going to be our filler its gonna feel akward. Being forced to break cc in order to do dmg.

But i do see the intend of blizzard. They basicly removed most passive dmg. Mastery/ bleed. But increased burst but we are not allowed to use it frequent nor make it spammable. Basicly just burst once every 20 seconds. And MS every 6. Both have high weapon dmg and are even increased further with mastery.
Then whirlwind to avoid ragecap. Or spam it if you want to have an improvised bladestorm :D


So they want arms to play like fury doing big damage every 20 sec, and they want fury to play like fury and do big damage every 20 sec. The difference is that Arms atm only has 3 abilities in its core rotation it can use while Fury has 5..

Didn't they want them to play differently? At this point one of the two specs just needs to lose Cs and be compensated with something else.
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#25 Jalopy

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:29 AM

Arms is far from finished, but still, the current design is God awful.
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#26 Speedymart

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 02:57 AM

Arms is far from finished, but still, the current design is God awful.


this

start by removing cs and going from there please
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#27 Jalopy

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 03:57 AM

WW 90% -> 200% WD
Bloodbath procs from multistrikes
Execute 200%->150% and 400%->300% and halved (base) rage cost.

Seems like they want the WW filler to stick.
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#28 shunke

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 05:29 AM

WW 90% -> 200% WD
Bloodbath procs from multistrikes
Execute 200%->150% and 400%->300% and halved (base) rage cost.

Seems like they want the WW filler to stick.


WW is good now. If LSD stacks and every ww crits its like using OP on every one
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#29 Jalopy

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 06:02 AM

Except for the fact it costs 200% more rage and can break all CC within 8 yards of you.
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#30 Pinka

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 07:16 AM

  • Whirlwind (Arms) In a whirlwind of steel you attack all enemies within 8 yards, causing 90% 200% weapon damage to each enemy.
Buffed in the newest build. Execute is prob starting to go into the dmg nerf spiral till it hits noodle lvls once alpha is over.
  • Execute Attempt to finish off a foe, causing 200% 150% weapon damage to the target, and consuming up to 40 additional Rage to deal up to 400% 300% additional weapon damage. Only usable on enemies that have less than 20% health. Requires Melee Weapon. Warrior - Arms Spec. 20 Rage. Melee range. Instant. 10 Rage. Melee range. Instant.

Edited by Pinka, 26 June 2014 - 07:17 AM.

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#31 Clipback

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 11:53 AM

-----

Edit: Doesn't matter, found the answer :o
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#32 neronzito

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Posted 26 June 2014 - 11:05 PM

its kind of strange this alpha.. arms feel like a shit..
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#33 Clique05

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:27 AM

RIP slam :( I will miss you xx
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#34 ellipticcurve

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 09:19 AM

Honestly with how CS/MS both cost rage and how CS can eat half your bar in a GCD, I can see that being really fucking annoying, especially since our only rage generator will be AA.


Rage doesn't look that bad at all (white hit generates 25 rage, crits double it). Sure it plays different from MoP but it's not bad, just different. Warrior is much more white hit and swing timer dependend again but it doesn't have to be bad.

Execute is prob starting to go into the dmg nerf spiral till it hits noodle lvls once alpha is over.

It's not really a nerf and more of a smoothing thing. 20 + 40 was too high in terms of the rage that was needed. It plays much smoother now.

whirlwind is going to be our filler its gonna feel akward. Being forced to break cc in order to do dmg.

You do not need as many filler as you think. With stancedancing you're actually fairly busy and haste reduces your mortal strike cooldown. I did not try to get full haste gear yet but I'd assume you can dumb it down to something like 4.5 sec cd. Whirlwind doesn't break too much cc, you can move away from the sheep and only hit your target if you like. You can't brainafk spam whirlwind close to a sheep tho.

On alpha you're currently not gcd capped in pvp but that's actually a good thing. Being gcd capped via dmg spells would be too much given that casters actually have to cast now. You have to see it in perspective, not having a dmg spell for a second doesn't really hurt the overall gameplay and balance much (cs -> ms -> whirlwind does decent dmg and even ms alone hits good.).

Before all of you freak out.. wait for the beta and play it. It's different but not bad. We should be open for new things.. even tho let's face it, most of it isn't that new - most of the ideas are fairly old and ms cost rage a long time ago. ;-)

imo it's a lot more fun than the "slam spam" that we have to do in MoP. I agree that it's not completely finished (wtb heroic strike) but the ideas are good.

Edited by ellipticcurve, 27 June 2014 - 08:04 PM.

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#35 Drevi

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 04:19 PM

Whirlwind in the single target rotation feels a lot more fury than arms, and even worse, it will hit fairly harder than fury's... No idea what they're thinking.
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#36 Jalopy

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:10 PM

its kind of strange this alpha.. arms feel like a shit..


They literally have no idea what they want to do with either fury or arms.

Rage doesn't look that bad at all (white hit generates 25 rage, i think multistrike can generate 25 too and crits double it). Sure it plays different from MoP but it's not bad, just different. Warrior is much more white hit and swing timer dependend again but it doesn't have to be bad.


If we're sitting defensive (which I imagine we will for PVP) we get half that rage from AAs and no 2x multiplier on crits. Pretty sure AA multistrikes don't generate any kind of rage.

It's not really a nerf and more of a smoothing thing. 20 + 40 was too high in terms of the rage that was needed. It plays much smoother now.


Are you sure you've actually been on the alpha? Even in a complete PVE environment and sitting battle 40-50% of our GCDs are dead. Add in sitting defensive and having downtime and think what it'll be like.

Exhibit A:

You do not need as many filler as you think. With stancedancing you're actually fairly busy and haste reduces your mortal strike cooldown. I did not try to get full haste gear yet but I'd assume you can dumb it down to something like 4.5 sec cd. Whirlwind doesn't break too much cc, you can move away from the sheep and only hit your target if you like. You can't brainafk spam whirlwind close to a sheep tho.


In this day and age, especially with a melee based class that's being designed from the ground up, there's zero reason that it needs to have inherit downtime at all. There is zero rage generation in the spec besides AAs/charge. Say you MS and go to <10 rage and then get peeled off until you can reconnect. You STILL can't hit anything because charge doesn't generate enough rage to let you even MS again. It's a terrible design in both PVE and PVP.

On alpha you're currently not gcd capped in pvp but that's actually a good thing. Being gcd capped via dmg spells would be too much given that casters actually have to cast now. You have to see it in perspective, not having a dmg spell for a second doesn't really hurt the overall gameplay and balance much (cs -> ms -> whirlwind does decent dmg and even ms alone hits good.).


With this I'm about 90% sure you actually haven't played the alpha, because there's not "a second" of downtime, there're 3+ seconds stints, COMMON stints of zero activity, and there will be far more in PVP.
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#37 mirag

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:50 PM

To me it just feels wrong waiting for global cooldown rathen than resources and/or skill cooldowns as a meele class.
Maby its just becouse i mostly play rogue maby its for other reasons. Idk.
That being said. I havent played alpha but from what it look like. There is to much downtime.

Mop rogue or wrath unholy presence shadowfrost dk felt like the correct balance.
Your globals are full during burst but between there is some downtime. This also makes your burst feels more significant.
Mop warrior or wrath blood precence shadowfrost dk felt to ADD being global cooldown starved.
TBC warrior felt like there was to much waiting for MS and and WW cd. And this version looks very similar to that.

1 extra filler would be nice. Not 3 like in mop.
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#38 ellipticcurve

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 07:54 PM

If we're sitting defensive (which I imagine we will for PVP) we get half that rage from AAs and no 2x multiplier on crits. Pretty sure AA multistrikes don't generate any kind of rage.


You can't sit in dstance all the time. Some abilities are only available in battlestance, e.g. hamstring. I didn't have any problems with my rage and went dstance for incoming burst dmg / cc or when i needed a dstance specific ability. The game is not as bursty and the damage is overall much lower, for me there was no reason to sit in dstance all game (but I haven't played vs top players in 3s yet, only touched 2v2).

Are you sure you've actually been on the alpha? Even in a complete PVE environment and sitting battle 40-50% of our GCDs are dead. Add in sitting defensive and having downtime and think what it'll be like



I did not say that we're gcd capped in pve. I said that we're not gcd capped in PvP and that it felt much more balanced than when we were gcd capped . On early alpha, when execute was still a rage dumb we literally could overrun people (big hits each time you press a button + having always a button to click was too much imo). If you want to be gcd capped again, they have to lower the damage from our abilities again which defeates their idea of "a few big hits".

because there's not "a second" of downtime, there're 3+ seconds stints, COMMON stints of zero activity, and there will be far more in PVP.

Don't know maybe my feeling was wrong and there were longer downtimes but it did not feel that bad. I should test it again and look at the combat log. I used the charge glyph tho and swapped a lot, keeping my charge more or less on cd. I guess it's worse if you constantly train one target and don't have the rage from charge.

I looked at the video and sometimes he has not much downtime. But then again sometimes he has 3-4 seconds downtime. He didn't use charge incombat once tho.

Personally I liked it but I can understand when other people don't like it. I prefer to have a few abilities that hit hard and some downtime rather than spamming something like slam (so it probably didn't feel as bad to me as it might be to someone who first touched warrior in MoP).

I agree however that it doesn't feel finished. I like the dmg from auto attacks part but it does not feel complete. What annoyed me the most was that if you were in the defense and tanked a lot of dmg, you didn't gain any rage from it. Sometimes you'd kite and the only rage you had when you went offensive again, was from charge + your first auto hit, which imo wasn't enough to always turn the table quick enough. I wish we had some other way to gain rage but I don't want it to be from MS or CS. Maybe it's only me but I happen to like it when my dmg abilities cost rage instead of providing rage. wtb bloodrage for some additional rage and maybe a rage gain from dmg taken. :-)

Edited by ellipticcurve, 27 June 2014 - 08:01 PM.

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#39 Jalopy

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:07 PM

because you asked.

And the only things that don't require battle stance are defensive-oriented abilities. I'd honestly be surprised if stance requirements survive the beta, we dropped them ages ago and for good reason. There's no skill involved in making a bunch of macros.
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#40 Mortalstryke

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Posted 27 June 2014 - 08:19 PM

https://www.youtube....h?v=hkiRehqifV8 because you asked.

And the only things that don't require battle stance are defensive-oriented abilities. I'd honestly be surprised if stance requirements survive the beta, we dropped them ages ago and for good reason. There's no skill involved in making a bunch of macros.



Agreed, this just nothing more than "skill macros" and double dips on latency.........
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