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Arena123 targetting actually hurts arena


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#121 Skutlee

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:29 AM

It obviously makes the game mechanics less clunky, but i don't see why it would reduce the amount of skill involved :confused:
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#122 Avengelyne

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 04:57 AM

View PostDizzeeyo, on 13 June 2014 - 09:57 PM, said:

why do all your examples feature an rmd playing against 3 idiots?

The example was if people couldn't spam a1/2/3 interrupts.. when someone comes out of stealth casting the cast is halfway finished, most of the time even more.. deep and CS off the global.. next global is PoM ring..

Just examples of what could easily happen to anybody. Providing people don't get pulled out of stealth, RMD gets a sap 3k player or 1200 player still cant do that while stunned..
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View Postgravyrainbow, on 08 October 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

I prefer combat because my dong is large and I will face the enemy like a man rather than sprint over to a pillar for a re after my opener is up.

#123 Holypalaswe

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 05:48 AM

I see it as a good thing to make something about arena123 macros as it would remove a barrier for new players to start playing arenas. The feeling that you have to learn to play with 3 extra binds on some spells to be competitive, because arenas are the only place in Wow where such a type of using spells exists can be disheartening. I believe the overall experience of arenas greatly improves with more players playing, and this goes against that..
Absolute best would be an environment where new players know they can just jump into arena knowing that they aren't against people that has some macros or addons that gives them an advantage.

Arguing about spamming arena3 for that invis mage is kind of pointless as the meta will change with wod changes to instantcasts.

Facing requirement won't do much, would just require people to spin around like warriors do when charging.

Edited by Holypalaswe, 14 June 2014 - 12:34 PM.


#124 Glink

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 09:51 AM

The only time I use 1 2 3 binds for anything is for stopping casts out of stealth or in an opener or whatever where it is necessary to spam the button to stop the cast.
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#125 Okayenhance

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 02:20 PM

View PostGlink, on 14 June 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

The only time I use 1 2 3 binds for anything is for stopping casts out of stealth or in an opener or whatever where it is necessary to spam the button to stop the cast.

And in those situations thats exactly why it's hurting arena.

You wouldn't be able to stop those casts in any other facet of the game.

#126 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 02:36 PM

View PostIcyfresh420, on 14 June 2014 - 12:06 AM, said:

Because most of the people who QQ about rmd acting like there's no way to counter their openers is in fact 1 of the three idiots he examples.
yes exactly :)

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#127 Eowynnz

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Posted 14 June 2014 - 11:52 PM

Couldn't we just remove the "targetexact" mechanic, so spamming, say death coil on stealthed rogue would just coil current target?
I could see that help the majority of issues
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#128 Speedymart

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 11:22 AM

View PostEowynnz, on 14 June 2014 - 11:52 PM, said:

Couldn't we just remove the "targetexact" mechanic, so spamming, say death coil on stealthed rogue would just coil current target?
I could see that help the majority of issues

No, because that would break my god-tier banner macro. Please don't make me go back to the old ones
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#129 Okayenhance

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Posted 15 June 2014 - 05:46 PM

View PostAvengelyne, on 12 June 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

It's only going to make stopping RM-D/P 100%-0 openers harder as well as stopping guise + feather across the fucking arena -> fear and stopping  guise -> MD near impossible.

For everything else it's going to make doing what you want to do more clunky, and lower the bridge between top players and bads even more. Being a Gladiator has always required not only good awareness but also very high game knowledge and binds/macros.

While we are at it lets not let spriests macro shield to psyfeind. The fucking thing is broken enough without making it impossible to kill as a Ret (it WILL fear before you can kill it preventing it from dying).

While we are at that we can look into druids triple fucking teleporting across the map with symbiosis. I don't think even a WW monk can keep up with displacer, symb portal and gateway. It's absurd that they get god abilities playing with god classes and dogshit abilities playing with dogshit classes.

We can also look at mages altering with 5 icicles, pressing one ice lance then altering and pressing another. Within 2 seconds it's over 400k damage. Combine that with Spriest DP + Mind blast proc it's over a million instant damage in two globals, not counting pet damage and DoT ticks. That much damage is fucked. Especially when it's available so often, so much so that it's essentially on demand. It's S12 taste for blood status but it can happen every match. Not even going to mention ele procs. If you think i'm exaggerating please take a look at the tournament or fight any high god comp. You will fight through a wall of CC and defensives until the other team decides its time do double blanket silence and 1 shot you.

As a Ret taking away 1/2/3 macros would barely hurt me but I think it's dumb to spend time on that when there is way more broken shit. Especially when removing them would bearly even affect anything. How about spending some time and money combating Honor buddy scripts? That's an entire beast on it's own.

Maybe every class shouldn't have stealth. That's right! Priest, hunter, mage, every comp that plays with a rogue, symbiosis resto shaman etc. You all shouldn't have stealth.

#130 Speedymart

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:00 AM

View PostOkayenhance, on 15 June 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

Maybe every class shouldn't have stealth. That's right! Priest, hunter, mage, every comp that plays with a rogue, symbiosis resto shaman etc. You all shouldn't have stealth.

Fucking this. The only class that should have stealth, let alone a vanish are rogues. Not a single other god damn class needs it and it needs to be addressed once WoD PvP testing starts. They're listening to us this time around so we need to make it clear as possible
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#131

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:44 AM

View Postwatchmepwn, on 11 June 2014 - 07:09 AM, said:

Your ignorance frightens me. Try to play without it versus people that play with it. You are and will always be slower then the rest #fact

Stil not good?

But if they removed addons and shit he wouldn't need to play versus people that play with it ! :)

View PostSnodz, on 13 June 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

All of these mages and rogues agreeing with OP

I wonder why?

Leave It as it is, there are far more broken things that need addressing.

Why is class played relevant to this topic.......... everyone has something they can bind to arena123.......

Edited by Cradienz, 16 June 2014 - 11:49 AM.


#132 Regent

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Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:14 AM

View PostSpeedymart, on 16 June 2014 - 11:00 AM, said:

Fucking this. The only class that should have stealth, let alone a vanish are rogues. Not a single other god damn class needs it and it needs to be addressed once WoD PvP testing starts. They're listening to us this time around so we need to make it clear as possible

I don't think it should be removed completely, just rebalanced. It makes sense for mages to have invis, etc and is pretty cool. The problem comes from them being imbalanced and/or arena123/whatever messing with them.

#133 Yes

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 11:39 PM

Ether there will be a way to hit a hotkey to swap targets to arena names / player names or there won't be. If there's not - are we expected to click on names?

If I have to hit some hotkey to target a player in arena (if it is after they unstealthed / came in range or before) and then hit the key to cyclone, it's not much different from hitting the arena3 cyclone macro.

If you take away the ability to target players with macros, you lose a lot of other things more competitive players do.

Why force players to edit their target macros to type in player's names in the beginning of the match? Why give advantage to players with unspellable names or hard to type names?

#134 Flavours

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Posted 20 June 2014 - 11:58 PM

View PostYes, on 20 June 2014 - 11:39 PM, said:

Ether there will be a way to hit a hotkey to swap targets to arena names / player names or there won't be. If there's not - are we expected to click on names?

If I have to hit some hotkey to target a player in arena (if it is after they unstealthed / came in range or before) and then hit the key to cyclone, it's not much different from hitting the arena3 cyclone macro.

If you take away the ability to target players with macros, you lose a lot of other things more competitive players do.

Why force players to edit their target macros to type in player's names in the beginning of the match? Why give advantage to players with unspellable names or hard to type names?

However, if they they're stealthed, and you're spamming your Cyclone 1, you could be casting it 1-2 seconds earlier, than if you had to then target, and cast. However, i believe this change would affect instant cc and cc that doesn't require position more.

I.e ImpCsing someone who you have no idea where they are in area, but due to an arena 1-3 macro being able to do it instantly anyway. A few seconds can change an area game, as we all know.

It shouldn't affect your arena 1-3 bash too much ;)
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#135 Yes

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 12:48 AM

I can bind keys in such a way that the reaction time between targetting and casting is ~100 ms, simply by binding arena targetting to the scroll wheel.

#136 Flavours

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Posted 21 June 2014 - 12:54 AM

View PostYes, on 21 June 2014 - 12:48 AM, said:

I can bind keys in such a way that the reaction time between targetting and casting is ~100 ms, simply by binding arena targetting to the scroll wheel.

I have my targetting bound this way, but try playing an arena using only Focus targetting, and not Arena1-3 Macros, you'll realize how much harder it actually is.

Scenario A with the change: Let's say i want to Stormbolt a shaman, Focus Fear a druid, whilst staying on my target, a Warlock. I must first shift focus, from the druid, too the shaman, Stormbolt, re-focus the druid, fear, then continue my rotation.

Scenario B now: I use my Arena 3 Stormbolt on the shaman, and my Arena 2 Fear on the druid, in perhaps, 2-3 seconds less, i have cross CC'd the team, perhaps without even knowing where the Shaman/Druid where, or who i had on focus.

I'm sure there are better examples from other classes, but i play warrior.
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#137 Yes

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:05 AM

View PostFlavours, on 21 June 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

I have my targetting bound this way, but try playing an arena using only Focus targetting, and not Arena1-3 Macros, you'll realize how much harder it actually is.

Scenario A with the change: Let's say i want to Stormbolt a shaman, Focus Fear a druid, whilst staying on my target, a Warlock. I must first shift focus, from the druid, too the shaman, Stormbolt, re-focus the druid, fear, then continue my rotation.

Scenario B now: I use my Arena 3 Stormbolt on the shaman, and my Arena 2 Fear on the druid, in perhaps, 2-3 seconds less, i have cross CC'd the team, perhaps without even knowing where the Shaman/Druid where, or who i had on focus.

I'm sure there are better examples from other classes, but i play warrior.

With how slow the GCD is a good player would not have much difficulty doing this without /cast [@arena1] macros.

#138 Flavours

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:18 AM

View PostYes, on 23 June 2014 - 12:05 AM, said:

With how slow the GCD is a good player would not have much difficulty doing this without /cast [@arena1] macros.

I disagree, people are very reliant on arena 1-3 macros, and i honestly feel it could only be benefical
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#139 Schvetolga

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:21 AM

View PostFlavours, on 21 June 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

I have my targetting bound this way, but try playing an arena using only Focus targetting, and not Arena1-3 Macros, you'll realize how much harder it actually is.

Scenario A with the change: Let's say i want to Stormbolt a shaman, Focus Fear a druid, whilst staying on my target, a Warlock. I must first shift focus, from the druid, too the shaman, Stormbolt, re-focus the druid, fear, then continue my rotation.

Scenario B now: I use my Arena 3 Stormbolt on the shaman, and my Arena 2 Fear on the druid, in perhaps, 2-3 seconds less, i have cross CC'd the team, perhaps without even knowing where the Shaman/Druid where, or who i had on focus.

I'm sure there are better examples from other classes, but i play warrior.

Eh no. You keep focus on the druid, target the shaman normally > storm bolt > focus fear druid. You're making it sound harder than it really is.
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#140 Flavours

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 12:25 AM

View PostSchvetolga, on 23 June 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

Eh no. You keep focus on the druid, target the shaman normally > storm bolt > focus fear druid. You're making it sound harder than it really is.

You've actually just made my point. I have to untarget the warlock, stop doing my damage, stormbolt the shaman, then retarget the warlock. Beforehand i would just hit a different bind and whilst doing my rotation stormbolt the shaman.
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