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Differences between EU and US Holy Palas


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#1 Juther

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 08:50 AM

as tytled , i see that the most of the best US paladin choose the stat combo Mastery / Spirit     , with Divine Purpose.

While the best EU Holy Pals uses Crit/Spirit or better Crit / Haste combo, with Holy Avenger.

Is there something beyond this? comps situations or what?


thank you for the enlightenment.

#2 Flavours

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 10:36 AM

http://eu.battle.net...Jìmjim/advanced

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#3 Connellypwnz

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 10:54 AM

US Paladins play wizardcleaves.
EU Paladins play wheelchaircleaves (tsg, kfc, turbo etc)

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#4 Flavours

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:00 AM

View PostConnellypwnz, on 03 June 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

US Paladins play wizardcleaves.
EU Paladins play wheelchaircleaves (tsg, kfc, turbo etc)

"Wizardcleaves are hard to play" - No one ever
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#5 Diasleramo

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:01 AM

View PostConnellypwnz, on 03 June 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

US Paladins play wizardcleaves.
EU Paladins play wheelchaircleaves (tsg, kfc, turbo etc)
I always thought that wheelchair cleaves involved two healers and 1 dps. Would make a lot more sense... but your right, you need crit if you're playing a cleave and mastery for wizards. A lot of people on US also just armory the top pally (Eliteqt) and see that he's mastery, then they assume it's the best way to go without realizing that he exclusively plays wizard comps.

Edited by Diasleramo, 03 June 2014 - 11:02 AM.


#6 Juther

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:11 AM

View PostDiasleramo, on 03 June 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

A lot of people on US also just armory the top pally (Eliteqt) and see that he's mastery, then they assume it's the best way to go without realizing that he exclusively plays wizard comps.

u are right, but Elite is not the only one Mastery/Spirit.
try to take a look and you will see many other holy pala with this combo.

#7 iQonic

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:42 AM

boosted warrior talking about how wizzard cleaves are easier than mongo melee comps

#8 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 11:59 AM

View PostiQonic, on 03 June 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

boosted warrior talking about how wizzard cleaves are easier than mongo melee comps
The world we live in unfortunately :(

View PostPouncedd, on 12 June 2014 - 01:51 AM, said:

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper and have looked at the numbers comparatively for almost every class

View PostJontex, on 23 June 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)

#9 Jim_Jim

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 12:51 PM

Playing with 2 casters is clearly easier as a healer.
Especially this season, where meleecleave, tend to be non-existant at high ratings.

But it's not the subject here.

Crit/haste > *

Edited by Karlagerfeld, 03 June 2014 - 12:54 PM.

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#10 Flavours

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:04 PM

View PostiQonic, on 03 June 2014 - 11:42 AM, said:

boosted warrior talking about how wizzard cleaves are easier than mongo melee comps

what counts as boosted? playing with my friends?
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#11 Flavours

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:06 PM

View PostKarlagerfeld, on 03 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Playing with 2 casters is clearly easier as a healer.
Especially this season, where meleecleave, tend to be non-existant at high ratings.

But it's not the subject here.

Crit/haste > *

Jimjim speaks the truth
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#12 Connellypwnz

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 02:11 PM

View PostFlavours, on 03 June 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

what counts as boosted? playing with my friends?

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#13 Champloos

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:13 PM

View PostDiasleramo, on 03 June 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

I always thought that wheelchair cleaves involved two healers and 1 dps. Would make a lot more sense... but your right, you need crit if you're playing a cleave and mastery for wizards. A lot of people on US also just armory the top pally (Eliteqt) and see that he's mastery, then they assume it's the best way to go without realizing that he exclusively plays wizard comps.

You've opened my eyes my lord and savior.

#14 Elit3tk0

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Posted 03 June 2014 - 03:29 PM

Hey ^_^

I don't post on AJ often, but I do stop by occasionally to stay in touch with news from around the globe.

View PostJuther, on 03 June 2014 - 08:50 AM, said:

US paladin choose the stat combo Mastery / Spirit     , with Divine Purpose.

EU Holy Pals uses Crit/Spirit or better Crit / Haste combo, with Holy Avenger.

Is there something beyond this? comps situations or what?


I've had this question asked a fair amount of times, and I'm sure the players on EU are being asked the same thing so I figured I'd jump in to see what other people are thinking.

From my own perspective, I've been running with a Spirit / Mastery build since Season 12 before Illuminated Healing was slightly nerfed, and I still find it useful in a few situations (Illuminated Healing used to stack from Eternal Flame prior to Season 14). It can be said that the comp which is being played determines how a Paladin should reforge, and that is true to some extent. I simply find it convenient to stick to Spirit / Mastery while playing on US ladders as :priest: :mage: :paladin:   /  :warlock: :mage:  :paladin:  / :shaman: :warlock: :paladin:  because many of the comps you queue into on US at high ratings include shamans or mist-weavers, and most of the time the game is prolonged. (On a side note, I also feel like the comps that queue on US are extremely limited compared to EU, and it'd be pretty significant to have a match end in quick succession.

There are actually a few comps where I tend to even go oom against, and it really helps to have the max amount of spirit, or else the game would end in the other teams favor. A handful of players tell me they don't find themselves going oom for the most part, but I can ensure you that a lengthy game against one of these teams could drain you pretty quick (Some comps to go oom against as a Paladin; :mage: :warrior: (monk) / ele :shaman: :warrior: (monk) / resto :shaman: :warlock: :warrior:  / :warlock: (ele) :shaman: :druid:  / enhance :shaman: :warrior: (monk) ). This is just a small list that I thought of off the top of my head, and most of them consist of :shaman: :warrior: . Usually the teams with the least amount of CC end of being the teams which I go oom against, and if I don't actually go for a drink early in the game we could lose before dampening.

View PostConnellypwnz, on 03 June 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

US Paladins play wizardcleaves.

Also, these are just comps that I've been playing in the past month or two only because I haven't had time to mess around with other people due to exams etc., but if you are playing with wizards, you probably need a little bit more spirit if you notice games last longer than you'd expect. And with that, since I pretty much know what to expect on US ladders, I normally don't bother switching Spirit / Mastery for Crit / (Something Else) only because I don't care for buying an extra set of gear on 3 different toons. Although I DO construct two different sets for tournaments consisting of the usual Spirit / Mastery and Crit --> Spirit --> Haste. I use the second set for games that are expected to end quicker.

And even though it's good to be reforged / specced accordingly to what comp you're playing, using whatever build you like won't necessarily hold you back from winning.

View PostKarlagerfeld, on 03 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Crit/haste > *

I used to run TSG in S12 and ended up getting rank 1 on a few battlegroups, and I used Spirit / Mastery which worked just fine. Whether you play with Crit or Mastery, just know what it will take to keep your team up, and know how long you'll need to do it for.


Also, during the time I've played with Mastery, I noticed on Recount that Illuminated Healing is always going to be your second biggest healing output each game behind Eternal Flame. I haven't checked this with a Crit set, but it's always good to have extra buffs scattered around your team, even if it's a shield for only 1,000. The buff could potentially be the difference of having your :mage:  Alter Time stolen, or :druid: Nature's Swiftness purged.

And finally, the last thing you mentioned was playing between Divine Purpose and Holy Avenger. From my experience, Holy Avenger is a remarkably powerful talent. So powerful that... I feel like the talent is actually filled with over healing. The talent actually provides so much burst that you will pretty much top your entire team probably 2-3 teams. The only thing is, there isn't a comp that will kill your entire team 2 or even 3 times over again within a 18 second window. Without Divine Purpose, this means you're pretty much wasting all of your heals in this short burst which most of the time isn't even necessary. Not to mention, I can usually get away with healing a teammate for 2 to 3 globals to consider them safe (Holy Shock + 3 Holy Power Eternal Flame).

The problem with Holy Paladins isn't whether or not if they're able to keep their teammates up, it's more of a matter of how long they can be kept out of CC before being put into the next one. For the most part, as long as I'm not cced, I tend to keep my entire team up even without critting. As a Paladin, as long as you can make sure you won't be put into a CC for an extended period of time, you should be able to top your team despite the reforge / stats you choose to play with.

I think I covered most of the topics previously stated, but anyways hopefully this helps for you as well as others. Feel free to ask other questions in case I'm not around on AJ or let me know what you think with what I've mentioned @ www.twitch.tv/elit3tko.

Cheers :lol:

#15 Juther

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 07:55 AM

Thank you alot for your contribution, Eliteqt.

Thaks to Jìmjim also for the feedback.

View PostElit3tk0, on 03 June 2014 - 03:29 PM, said:



Also, during the time I've played with Mastery, I noticed on Recount that Illuminated Healing is always going to be your second biggest healing output each game behind Eternal Flame. I haven't checked this with a Crit set, but it's always good to have extra buffs scattered around your team, even if it's a shield for only 1,000. The buff could potentially be the difference of having your :mage:  Alter Time stolen, or :druid: Nature's Swiftness purged.

And finally, the last thing you mentioned was playing between Divine Purpose and Holy Avenger. From my experience, Holy Avenger is a remarkably powerful talent. So powerful that... I feel like the talent is actually filled with over healing. The talent actually provides so much burst that you will pretty much top your entire team probably 2-3 teams. The only thing is, there isn't a comp that will kill your entire team 2 or even 3 times over again within a 18 second window. Without Divine Purpose, this means you're pretty much wasting all of your heals in this short burst which most of the time isn't even necessary. Not to mention, I can usually get away with healing a teammate for 2 to 3 globals to consider them safe (Holy Shock + 3 Holy Power Eternal Flame).




Recount told me the same thing about Illuminated Healing strenght

#16 Jim_Jim

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 09:54 AM

The problem (for me) about Divine Purpose is the RNG side of this talent. I'm not really lucky with procs, with fear pathing, offensive dispel ("You have 8 buffs, it's gonna be fi... your BoP is gone."), or everything else. (I'm really lucky for mounts on the other side :D), i have stop counting the number of HoJ the meta-gem reflect me, it's depressing.
You can have a perfect row of proc during the best situations, or having the same procs, but at the start of arenas.

I prefer having a real control of my healing, and i find Holy Avenger really good for that, in addition to be the best CD of all (And with a real graphical effect, for once), after guardian.

For the gear, i think everybody can play what he wants, but i'm Crit/Haste now, with 2511 spirit (Yeah... :D), and i love it. Eveything is fast.
Perhaps with 2 casters (But as a healer, i find those kind of comp really boring compared to the others), something else would be more adapted, but i played mostly melee/melee and lock/monk.

It's hard to change when you have tasted a 4,83s CD for Holy Shock :D

/draenei_kiss

Edited by Karlagerfeld, 04 June 2014 - 09:55 AM.

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#17 Darthgnoe

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:07 AM

Listen to jimjim, god of all paladins.

ps; pls one of your team needs to start streaming I wanna learn affli ww monk comp strats ; x

#18 Shinigamix

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 10:16 AM

Lol qonic why u heff to be mad :D Not like youw playd with bad people urself

#19 Jim_Jim

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Posted 04 June 2014 - 12:46 PM

Quote

ps; pls one of your team needs to start streaming I wanna learn affli ww monk comp strats ; x

My "internet" don't allow me to stream unfortunately. :(

For ww/lock/pal, you can win every arenas (Except in my opinion war/mage/heal and beastcleave), but you will have real difficulties against every mage-team, because of how hpal works against mages.

The real problem with this comp, and i suffer it now, is that it's 2 times better (and easier) with a rsham. My monk switch from me to a rsham (With another lock), and without a real communication (He is like me, we don't know how to speak english on skype...), he gains more than 100 rating.

"It's too easy with a rsham." He said.

I'm only superior to a rsham against LSD2 :D
(Because hand of purity / beacon of light, and you can anticipate some root/beam from the moonkin.)

With this comp, you can make some real and violent switch, especially against rsham, because a monk on a rsham is really efficient. (And every rsham hates being trained by a monk.)

TrainTheBlue.

Edited by Karlagerfeld, 04 June 2014 - 02:46 PM.

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