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Burst of speed nerf?

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#101 mirox

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 05:55 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 16 May 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

If this is the case then how did Rogues ever do anything before BoS was a thing?
They didnt vs a good team. Mage/warrior/rdruid, for example...

#102 swagoverlord

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 06:10 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 16 May 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

If this is the case then how did Rogues ever do anything before BoS was a thing?
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#103 Keskers

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 10:05 PM

Rogue would go back to feeling really slow and bland for me if this crap got nerfed. I mean, I'm a shitter, but I do like to have fun in games.
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#104 Lord Xar

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 10:32 PM

What many of you knuckleheads are not considering is that w/o BOS, we will be sitting ducks to pretty much EVERY SINGLE FUGG'ing class.

Not only do I use BOS to try and get restealths because outside of that, I am fairly useless when no CD's. I use to RUN AWAY and LOS so I am not friggin globaled all the time by mages, locks, warriors, DK's, monks, Hunters etc....

I use it to recup and get some survival back.... and at least minimize some friggin damage. When I'm out in the open I'm always on the defensive...... It's not like I'm a hybrid with more CC, DMG and Survial that rogues... lame asses.

#105 Lord Xar

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 10:35 PM

View PostFrom 16 May 2014 - 12:32 AM:

.. how did rogues do without bos before... (paraphrasing)


I'm amazed at tools like you - have you completely let slip from your miniscule brain that EVERY SINGLE CLASS has gotten MORE survival, MORE CC and MORE dmg.... and MORE mobility... the reason we were able to "Do without" BOS prior is because half the stuff that is currently IN GAME was not then.... wow, use some damn brain power...... I can't tell you how many times BOS has saved me because I was able to LOS before being globaled by pretty much every damn class.... yeah, let me go back to waddling... lololololol..
Frigging genuises on this board...

#106 Lord Xar

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 10:39 PM

View PostMarshmellow, on 15 May 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

That's ez

I'm talking about when a rogue is nascaring around a pillar and I might as well be jackin off cause I can't stop the re stealth

Right, because w/o Burst of Speed a rogue has even a glimpse of a fighting chance against you... lol.  You might as well be a warrior and complain that your multitude of gap closers can't "sometimes" allow you to global a rogue without a trinket... and cry because of BOS.... "Dammit BOS!!! I can't global this rogue at my leasure.....".  Too much.

#107 Schvetolga

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Posted 16 May 2014 - 11:17 PM

View PostLord Xar, on 16 May 2014 - 10:35 PM, said:

I'm amazed at tools like you - have you completely let slip from your miniscule brain that EVERY SINGLE CLASS has gotten MORE survival, MORE CC and MORE dmg.... and MORE mobility... the reason we were able to "Do without" BOS prior is because half the stuff that is currently IN GAME was not then.... wow, use some damn brain power...... I can't tell you how many times BOS has saved me because I was able to LOS before being globaled by pretty much every damn class.... yeah, let me go back to waddling... lololololol..
Frigging genuises on this board...

You sound frigging mad. Maybe you should multiquote instead of doing 3 seperate posts.
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#108 shackalackin

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:06 AM

^^^Hahaha yeup. So friggin mad.

#109 Cradienz

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:00 AM

Why is Subterfuge a problem when it just barely gives you enough mobility to keep up with what other melee classes has?

Tbf they should reduce mobility of casters and melees both, it's not fun to play Burst of Speed at all for the Rogue, and it's not fun for the Mage for example to be Stormbolted, into Blink, into Charge, into root, into intervene, into blazing speed, into charge, into priest grip into heroic leap with sprint on it, etc etc...

Like everyone has too much, for example... Druids have a BLINK, when they already can shift roots and slows and have several sprints, roots, slows and whatnot to keep melees away, how does that even make sense?

#110 Sunders

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:57 AM

I understand why this is a popular talent amongst rogues.  It's the most sensible option for mobility and damage.  

At the same time, you can't have CC, a wide option of ways to fuck with both caster and melee, spell immunity and matrix dodge,  along with the option to conditionally choose when you want to fight (and run away) and say that this is completely fine.

That isn't the fault of rogues though.  Obviously a design flaw in the way they have to deal damage to be viable.  

Just like everyone else though, you can't have your cake and eat it....... at least not in WoW for long.  

BoS needs to be changed or there needs to be changes to mobility in general.
  • BoS should have a slight increase in energy cost so it can't be freely spammed
or
  • They need to bring the old Judgement of Justice effect back into the game to keep rogues mobile classes  in check.


#111 Silhin

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:06 AM

View PostUrbandurban, on 16 May 2014 - 02:16 PM, said:

Are you really from the US?

standard reply when u have no counter argument and u know the person is right .


Fuck there right what do i reply with ''OH I KNOW!

Are you really from a pineapple under the sea?

#112 Schvetolga

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:40 AM

View PostSilhin, on 17 May 2014 - 07:06 AM, said:

standard reply when u have no counter argument and u know the person is right .


Fuck there right what do i reply with ''OH I KNOW!

Are you really from a pineapple under the sea?

I just have a hard time reading your post, that's all.
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#113 Doctor M

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 12:47 PM

View PostKeskers, on 16 May 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Rogue would go back to feeling really slow and bland for me if this crap got nerfed. I mean, I'm a shitter, but I do like to have fun in games.

And unfortunately people like yourself are the soul reason why this game has become what it is...

View PostEsiwdeer, on 29 June 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

But look how fucking dumb it was like, a bot could Drain Mana just like a bot could play Hunter ATM.

#114 bt4

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 01:56 PM

A bos rogue is an invitation to freecast as he can do jackshit til he runs to someone, anyone else has some instant as it is rogues are already shit-tier even with bos.

#115 Keskers

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 03:42 PM

View PostDoctor M, on 17 May 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

And unfortunately people like yourself are the soul reason why this game has become what it is...

Is that so? I thought Blizzard made the game what it is, made every class besides Dk's more or equally mobile to rogues. With Utility to match, with what looks to be both a lower skill floor and ceiling compared to rogues. I'm no genius, I watch streams, I hear Gladiator's and rank 1 players' opinions. Because I want to keep up with other classes, and because I want to have fun, doesn't diminish the fact that if BoS wasn't in the game rogues would require an even more pussy playstyle to be relevant. That's boring.
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#116 Abidalzim

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 04:56 PM

View PostAttono, on 15 May 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Also, Hellbovine you are an idiot.
No, you're the one that's retarded. And I mean it for real, I'm insulting your IRL lack of reading comprehension that I'd worry a lot more than about some pixels in a random game.
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#117 Tmx

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 11:33 PM

I feel like burst of speed is one of those talents that're difficult to balance. Best way IMO would be to make it a PvE ability. That means gutting it for PvP by removing the snare break, it'll be about as useful as leeching poison and anticipation.

However, you could make step baseline in that case and replace the shadowstep tier with improved shadowstep that could be either a root break, a lower CD, or possibly both. It could also have double charges instead, but I'm a bit eerie of that, considering how it works on allies. Maybe it wouldn't be OP, I don't know. But the speed buff would have to be removed.

CnD would give rogues extra mobility since we've been left behind as MoP hit with the exception of the introduction of BoS and CnD working with dance. It would also fix that infuriating issue of facing vs laggy people on mounts; sap healer > step cheapshot on warrior, jk he just runs around freely, wasting your sap.

What I'm worried about though is that these changes would leave rogues retarded if WoD rogues revolve around eviscerate (combo points stacking on rogue > double cheapshot > eviscerate right off the bat. I hope eviscerate will hit as hard as an ambush, so it doesn't feel useless like in cata, and backstab would hit harder so we'd still revolve mainly around find weakness.

I noticed also how people do not enjoy the constant restealthing, but I feel like with backstab buffed the playstyle would feel better. Also, I'm curious on peoples' thoughts on making subterfuge a COOLDOWN instead of how it works now. Maybe give it a 45 sec CD, an on-demand mini-dance with which it's still not a great idea to use ambush due to its 60 energy cost, but you wouldn't NEED a restealth when vanish/dance is gone. You would also be able to hold onto a vanish vs a team that's scary, but cloak of shadows should be brought back to 1.5 min, IMO.

Thoughts?

#118 Capers

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 12:03 AM

I always see everyone mention how they can fix Sstep, but am I the only one that actually likes the speed of BoS more than step? Even disregarding the snare removal, I just find it more fun to run around like that, than just jump once every 20 or so seconds.
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#119 bt4

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Posted 18 May 2014 - 01:42 AM

View PostCapers, on 18 May 2014 - 12:03 AM, said:

I always see everyone mention how they can fix Sstep, but am I the only one that actually likes the speed of BoS more than step? Even disregarding the snare removal, I just find it more fun to run around like that, than just jump once every 20 or so seconds.

Generally bos is way more fun to play with but  it has a major flaw : once out of stealth everyone can watch where you run and predict your target, you can't suprise anyone with it, quick switches are impossible. Plus shadowstep perfectly counters blink(rdruid/mage)  and knockback(ele,druid,hunter,lock pet) which will secure you kills you wouldnt have gotten with bos.

#120 Schvetolga

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 11:01 AM

View Postbt4, on 18 May 2014 - 01:42 AM, said:

Generally bos is way more fun to play with but  it has a major flaw : once out of stealth everyone can watch where you run and predict your target, you can't suprise anyone with it, quick switches are impossible. Plus shadowstep perfectly counters blink(rdruid/mage)  and knockback(ele,druid,hunter,lock pet) which will secure you kills you wouldnt have gotten with bos.

The element of suprise was never Rogues strong side anyway, even with stealth. Most people can predict what target the rogue and often the mage will go for, shadowstep or no shadowstep.
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