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Gladiator 2200 TBC MoP OG mage priest rogue shaman hunter

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#81 Jim_Jim

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 08:32 AM

Quote

It's interesting that there's such a strong reactionary movement when it comes to MoP critcism vs glorification of past expansions. The mechanics of cata/mop are gross, mop especially. I'm all for enjoying what you want. If you like MoP arena, then play it to your heart's content, but it's erroneous to act like the game's system hasn't significantly degraded

It's because it's only a point of view. And not an universal law. 90% of this post are "X is better, because... and if you give me YOUR arguments, and YOUR point of view, then it's wrong."

And i don't think Wotlk mecanics were better than MoP mecanics, just same problems, different places.

During Wotlk we had :

PvE gear was mandatory. (Caster had too much haste, melee had shadowmourne and arpen)
Bloodlust in arena. (Wizard, LSD, beastcleave...)
Ring of Valor. (With fire at the beginning, DC problem, no LoS)
Mana burn was a thing, even in 3v3.
Tank spec was here. (Mage, do you remember the protwar/mm hunter/hpal?)
Title in 2v2. (During 2 seasons.)
Hybrids and ridiculous spec. (As a paladin, we had the shockadin spec 37/0/34, and the prot-heal)
The OLD Battleground system. (So if you say "The title mean something, let me laugh, title have not meant anything, do you think my 3 title during Wotlk means something? I played feral/shockadin during S5/6, and destro/elem/pal during S8, we killed people during a shadowfury.)
More, more RNG than now. (Winter's chill, holypaladin cleanse which give 30% of "Miss miss miss", all the talent which give you X% chance of dispel resist...).

For me, every new xpac is the same as the old one. Sames problems, differents places.

If you say "X was better", it's ok, but it's just your point of view. For me, the best season was S11, not because of the season nonononono (Haha, hello Gurthalak). But because of peoples i played with, and this patch (4.3) bring me the transmog system.

Edited by Karlagerfeld, 17 May 2014 - 08:37 AM.

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#82 Holypalaswe

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 09:56 AM

^ and people that know this never bother replying in these threads when they pop up on every single wow-forum because it wont stop the meaningless arguments. ^^

#83 CreepStatus

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 10:18 AM

game was funner back in da dayz but i think thats just because i was young teenager in highschool with nothing useful to do with my time, idk if it took more skill back then or not nor do i give a fuck but game is just kinda washed up now and they dont release content updates/ pvp changes nearly enough for me to stay attatched. game gets boring and repetitive. Every season had its pros and cons but when you have to deal with certain cons for an overextended amount of time that's when people start sayin "ohhh game was so much better at x point than it is now" because they want to remember the good times they've had in this game instead of the shitty time they are currently having while being oblivious to the cons of the prior state of the game.
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#84 Eycore

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:45 PM

It's all fine and dandy pointing out the flaws or inferior mechanics from WOTLK or TBC to justify why it's similar or different to the most recent expansions, however at the end of the day, those expansions had a more active pvp community, and this in turn naturally breeds more skilled players. It's not just a point of view, it's a fact that's seen in any competitive environment.
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#85 ROKMODE

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 05:55 PM

except almost none of those things you listed were real issues in s7/s8 except pve gear
they were easy to navigate around and actually were equalizers in the game

the prot spec thing wasn't even a problem in s8 (atc top tier but still has weaknesses). In fact, it's a spec made out of pve gear, and tbh s8 prot takes a damn good amount of skill to play at a high level because you are running like 1/2 to 1/3 the resil of a normal player.

One more thing as well. . . Pve gear isn't even an integral s8 issue sans shadowmourne/triple bauble. The real issue was the fact that not everyone had access to all of it. The game is much more exciting when pve trinkets are in the game. AT has experimented with this numerous times by going back and forth, and the game is always better when everyone has op pve trinkets in some form.

When I talk about design flaws, I am not talking about things that need simple balance fixed. I am talking about a conglomeration of issues to severely damage the credibility of the game. Wotlk's pve gear would be one such issue, but it also isn't even a big deal when everyone has it.
MOP is full of such issues such as the absurd amount of survival cds, self heals, interrupts, instant casts, offensive cds. It's a continuation of all cata's problems but on roids.

Edited by ROKMODE, 17 May 2014 - 06:10 PM.

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Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

#86

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Posted 17 May 2014 - 07:04 PM

people usually have  more fun in the expansion they suceed in , ^ which in ur case was wotlk.
Personally i've had the most fun in tbc , where i didn't see this game like '' i log at 19:00, do arenas until 23:00-24:00 and then i'll go sleep cuz i need to wake up early 2morrow for uni''.I  logged to do different things like pugs or even sitting in durotar dueling for hours.
Game used to be better in every term , you didn't just log to do arenas, you logged to play an mmo.
Ever since mop came out i see myself logging less and less every day even when planning to do arenas.
Haven't logged for 2 months now.

#87 Voksen

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Posted 21 May 2014 - 03:49 AM

View PostLolflay, on 13 May 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

PvP was just better because the core of PvP is the community, and community was a lot less fragmented back then, and a lot more people knew each other. Right know only the people at the top communicate with each other and resemble anything similar of a community that once existed, whereas back in the day even the top PvPers couldn't be assholes because they were a part of a server community.

Also the drama was a lot better, and on the plus side, everyone knew who those crappy players were who got their r1's from 5s. ( I remember a really crap priest on Rampage getting r1 in 5s then being farmed in 3s by Duelist teams, fun times ).

( which is not to say that I don't enjoy the game currently - it's simply different than it used to be, sure, worse in some areas, sure, better in some areas, but overall different - and yeah I consider most of new players to not be extremely skilled at some areas in which older players were, but Blizzard is there to be thanked for that, for removing some crucial components that were once required to win, and now needed once every 100 games simply because everything got simplified )

Yep.  I don't pay for the game anymore (since cata), if someone gives me free game time, I casual around.

I actually have a 3000 word wall of text about the history of WoW pvp.  I put it together back in Cata to illustrate the "rise and fall" of a golden age.  Mentioned WoM, AJ, and SK forums, some of the key videos and heroes of the day, and how there was much, much more drama.  Also mentioned a chronological summary of overall community activity, how competition was tracked how things would tend to playout.  How there were actual tournaments and how people really didn't have access to all the tools and prior knowledge they have now.  

I'd really like to post the 2 pages of text, I really would, but on these forums today would be complete aids with how toxic and ADD the trolls are.  Therefore I edit/delete and ppl can msg me if they want to know pmuch anything about anything relevant to how things were in TBC/WOTLK.  Either that, or if I get enough requests I'll post a sticky somewhere about WoW's golden age.

Edited by Voksen, 21 May 2014 - 04:02 AM.


#88 Arienos_5419022

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 03:26 PM

View PostLolflay, on 13 May 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

I've playe


Also the drama was a lot better, and on the plus side, everyone knew who those crappy players were who got their r1's from 5s. ( I remember a really crap priest on Rampage getting r1 in 5s then being farmed in 3s by Duelist teams, fun times ).

d now needed once every 100 games simply because everything got simplified )


u talkin 'bout hmmz ? ?=D

#89 Odrareg

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:01 PM

There's a lot that can be said regarding the whole "old pvp vs MoP" subject. Like many people already stated earlier, every season had its own problems, nostalgia makes old times look better than what they actually were, and such. I completely agree with that.

However, there's some facts that can't be denied at all regarding current PvP. I'll leave out a simple example strictly related to my own holy paladin class:
- Divine Protection usable while stunned (Barkskin to everyone)
- Aura Mastery removing silences.
The list can go on forever.

This simply shows how there's been far too much homogenization and most mistakes are not unforgiving because there's too many tools to make up for a major mistake you could have done during a game. Due to this, it's easy for "average" players to become good all of a sudden simply cause the GAME does not allow the ACTUAL better players to shine as much as they could.
Don't get me wrong, there's a reason why there are people on 3k and people on 2.7k, but it just doesn't feel that noticeable, together with titles losing a big part of their meaning.
On top of that, the community is far more scattered than before regardless of Blizzard's attempts at "merging things up" with Real ID arenas, merging all battlegroups into a huge EU pool, etc. There's a big "weak" community rather than small but strong cores of people that know each other and such - and this doesn't feel that good, sadly.

In addition to this, maybe it's just me, but when I started playing back in s2 I was only 12 and it took years for me to actually learn how the game worked and when I got my first gladiator, after various years, it felt like a big achievement. Maybe I'm a slow learner? Can be. However, there's so many "new corner" players suddently getting to high ratings and earning Gladiator like nothing. Are they all geniuses? Probably a few, but I'm not too sure about that. Something has gone wrong, somewhere.

Edited by Odrareg, 02 June 2014 - 04:06 PM.


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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:09 PM

^ it's all cuz retarded inflation cuz of 1 big bg that rating matters nothing now.

#91 Hackattack3

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:32 PM

I think a lot of people have made some great points but I'd like to add something I see missing.


It is just a lot easier to land your abilities and use your character in cata/mop playstyle.

In TBC, a priest could not land a fear on a good rdruid without help from his teammates.  Also landing cc was far more punishing.  If a druid took a bad angle at pillar and ate a fear it was game breaking if the priest landed 2-3 mana burns.  You had to react to priest healers both offensively and defensively.

You eat far more unavoidable cc in cata/mop but it's much more forgiving.

Priests can now guise and zip around on a feather to land fears.  Druids can sotf + clone and its unavoidable.  Hunters have everything under the sun.  Mages w/ POM+poly.

I remember when a 2s lock/druid team went to some backwater BG in tbc and got r1 without selecting ANY TALENTS.  They could grossly outplay their competition by that wide of a margin that it didn't matter.


PS to the poster earlier that mentioned hunter/x2 healer and lock/x2healer as a thing.  Sure it could get you to +2.2k range but could not work vs a coordinated team.  They will kill the pets and cc peel off their healer for infinite drinks.  The only time I can remember dps+2xhealer working to r1 viable was s5 as surv hunter + 2xhealers and wotlk w/ smourne dk.

#92 Hackattack3

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Posted 02 June 2014 - 04:36 PM

View PostLolflay, on 16 May 2014 - 10:51 AM, said:

Are you honestly going to dispute someone who is probably still 10x better than any players playing on that shitty TBC AT realm ? Also my memory isn't bad at all, I've played on Cyclone and Rampage in TBC, two best EU BGs, what was viable there was viable anywhere else. Newsflash, me and my old rogue partner got r1 on that AT realm few months ago without dropping a single game as SP/rogue, it's a joke how bad all the players on that realm are.

Everything I've listed WAS viable. I'm not saying it was THE BEST, but IT WAS viable, in the brackets I've specified. Also

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You're joking, right ? You obviously have to be joking, because Ret Paladins were a resto druids worst fucking nightmare in 2v2 when paired with a rogue, and Warr/Ret/Resto Shaman took a huge shit on any druid team. Let's not even talk if the said paladin had perception on his team. Explain how something that counters a class present in 90% comps is "bad", please, I'm listening.

You should probably not discuss TBC with people who have actually played it on live, successfully, all 4 seasons. Your AT experience means jack shit when people only play what they think is best, and you're severely limited with your gear. PvE gear made all the difference back then, and successfully kept some classes viable when they wouldn't be viable if they had no PvE gear.

We should vote on people to be "expansion representatives" just as you vote on class presidents in high school.  I would vote for this guy to be the TBC expansion rep, he clearly has the most knowledge of balance, comps, and how pve gear made certain specs god like and extremely viable.  He's a bit aggressive but that's alright.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Gladiator, 2200, TBC, MoP, OG, mage, priest, rogue, shaman, hunter

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