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Gladiator 2200 TBC MoP OG mage priest rogue shaman hunter

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#41 Zqae

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:17 PM

I've been playing again for a few weeks after a 2 years break basically, haven't done much pvp though.

Almost everyone I knew and played with does not play anymore.

#42 Regent

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:19 PM

View PostArtofmage, on 15 May 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

tbc actually sucked pvp wise.

TBC was pretty great if you played one of the 6 viable specs.

#43 Clamnesia

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:29 PM

Stat Squish. Deletion of spells. deletion of reatrded stats. Deletion of retarded instant cast spells. Best thing thats happened to the game since DKs were nerfed after their release.
Why monkeys? Im starting to believe these monkeys have been snake bitten.. A whistling Dennis Rodman and a snake bitten monkey are no different. For these tree dwellers hath stolen the eggs of the momma parakeet. The howler monkey howls at dawn and dusk, the spider monkey yelps "yeeeeee yeeeeee" through the forest. Even the cud chewing antelope ease drop from a far. Tranquilize the monkeys and put them in a zoo, says the man with the red beard and boonie hat. And now I've got shit pie on my face?

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#44 Clamnesia

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 04:32 PM

View PostRegent, on 15 May 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

TBC was pretty great if you played one of the 6 viable specs.

Lol... well there were only 9 classes then... SO, seems legit.

But for real.. your info is false.

Popular / VERY viable comps during the time include :

WLS/D, MLS/D, Beast cleave, RMP/D, Shadowplay, WMS/D, KFC(with h pal), Warriorroguedruid, etc. Most of the most popular comps today that dont include the 2 new classes were still viable in 3s back then. Where do you think all of those comps were popularized to begin with? BC / early wotlk.

If we go by season 3 by useless specs in random order:
- Survival hunters
- Holy priests
- Fire mages
- Arcane mages
- Moonkin druids
- Feral druids (partly useless)
- Combat rogues
- Protection/tanking specs
- Destruction warlocks

If were speaking of 2s, yes it was mainly ruled by Restodruid / Warr, SL/SL lock, rogue (dbl 4pc/glaives) hunter, and mace stuns everywhere. When has arena ever been based around 2s UNLESS you were a cheap Druid or warrior LF an easy glad when you couldnt get your easy glad from 5s? The only people who seem to bitch about BC are the ones that couldnt muster the skill to end games below 1800 in less than 10 mins. Theres no positioning in the game any more. People pop abilities whenever. just mash as many buttons as you can as fast as you can. SMASH SMASH SMASH

Edited by Clamnesia, 15 May 2014 - 05:00 PM.

Why monkeys? Im starting to believe these monkeys have been snake bitten.. A whistling Dennis Rodman and a snake bitten monkey are no different. For these tree dwellers hath stolen the eggs of the momma parakeet. The howler monkey howls at dawn and dusk, the spider monkey yelps "yeeeeee yeeeeee" through the forest. Even the cud chewing antelope ease drop from a far. Tranquilize the monkeys and put them in a zoo, says the man with the red beard and boonie hat. And now I've got shit pie on my face?

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#45 Lolflay

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:02 PM

View PostRegent, on 15 May 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

TBC was pretty great if you played one of the 6 viable specs.

Arms Warr ( 2s 3s 5s )

Affli Warlock ( 2s 3s 5s )

Holy Paladin ( 2s for majority of xpack, 3s 5s )

Resto Druid ( 2s 3s 5s )

Disc Priest ( 2s 3s 5s )

Shadow Priest ( 2s 3s 5s )

Frost Mage ( 2s 3s 5s )

Sub Rogue ( 2s 3s 5s )

Mut Rogue ( 2s 3s )

MM Hunter ( 2s 3s 5s )

BM Hunter ( 2s 5s )

Resto Shaman ( 2s 3s 5s )

Ele Shaman ( 3s 5s )

Enh Shaman ( 3s )

Ret Paladin ( 2s, 3s if full Sunwell geared )

Feral Druid ( 2s 3s, if pve geared like a boss )

Destruction locks ( 5s, if pve geared like a boss )

That's 17 specs out of 27, more than half classes/specs were viable.

You have an interesting trait of opening your mouth without knowing what you're talking about ( next to "ah yep I played this class to 2400 easy yet I'm stuck on 2100 on my main" )


EDIT2

Let's compare that to this then

So currently we have 11 classes

Arms Warriors

Frost Mages

Affliction Warlocks

Destruction Warlocks

Balance Druids

Feral Druids

Resto Druids

Holy Priests

Shadow Priests

Sub Rogues

Combat Rogues

Holy Paladins

Ret Paladins ( lol )

MM Hunters

Survival Hunters

Unholy DKs

Enh, Ele, Resto Shams

WW Monks

Healer Monks


That's 21 specs out of 33 in the game that are currently *viable*. Damn, TBC was so poorly balanced.

Edited by Lolflay, 15 May 2014 - 05:11 PM.

Quote

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[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms

#46 sounds

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:46 PM

View PostLolflay, on 15 May 2014 - 02:17 PM, said:

Actually I hated MoP the moment I saw some beta footage, and I started hating Cataclysm the moment patch 4.0 hit live.

WoD, outside of few design retardations ( Fel Flame being a goner for Warlocks f.ex., why the fuck ? ), is looking pretty good.

Yeah I haven't enjoyed the few attempts I've tried to give MoP, even at the start of the expansion when everything is fresh again it was still missing that World of Warcraft charm that every other expansion had (possibly because of the setting?).

As for Cata, I must be in the minority but I loved the beginning of s9, even with all the imbalances (t11 was really well done too).

#47 charles34534534

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 05:48 PM

View PostLolflay, on 15 May 2014 - 05:02 PM, said:

Arms Warr ( 2s 3s 5s )

Affli Warlock ( 2s 3s 5s )

Holy Paladin ( 2s for majority of xpack, 3s 5s )

Resto Druid ( 2s 3s 5s )

Disc Priest ( 2s 3s 5s )

Shadow Priest ( 2s 3s 5s )

Frost Mage ( 2s 3s 5s )

Sub Rogue ( 2s 3s 5s )

Mut Rogue ( 2s 3s )

MM Hunter ( 2s 3s 5s )

BM Hunter ( 2s 5s )

Resto Shaman ( 2s 3s 5s )

Ele Shaman ( 3s 5s )

Enh Shaman ( 3s )

Ret Paladin ( 2s, 3s if full Sunwell geared )

Feral Druid ( 2s 3s, if pve geared like a boss )

Destruction locks ( 5s, if pve geared like a boss )

That's 17 specs out of 27, more than half classes/specs were viable.

You have an interesting trait of opening your mouth without knowing what you're talking about ( next to "ah yep I played this class to 2400 easy yet I'm stuck on 2100 on my main" )


EDIT2

Let's compare that to this then

So currently we have 11 classes

Arms Warriors

Frost Mages

Affliction Warlocks

Destruction Warlocks

Balance Druids

Feral Druids

Resto Druids

Holy Priests

Shadow Priests

Sub Rogues

Combat Rogues

Holy Paladins

Ret Paladins ( lol )

MM Hunters

Survival Hunters

Unholy DKs

Enh, Ele, Resto Shams

WW Monks

Healer Monks


That's 21 specs out of 33 in the game that are currently *viable*. Damn, TBC was so poorly balanced.

Try play TBC now, and you'll see those classes aren't viable, in TBC 3v3/2v2 very very few things actually works, especially now when people are generally much more skilled.

"Arms Warr ( 2s 3s 5s ) Viable

Affli Warlock ( 2s 3s 5s ) Not in 2v2, shadowpriest warlock only worked against bads, but 3v3, yes viable.

Holy Paladin ( 2s for majority of xpack, 3s 5s ) Not viable whatsoever vs any decent team, especially not in 3v3.

Resto Druid ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Disc Priest ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Shadow Priest ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Frost Mage ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Sub Rogue ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Mut Rogue ( 2s 3s ) No, not viable at all.

MM Hunter ( 2s 3s 5s ) Only 2v2.

BM Hunter ( 2s 5s ) Only 2v2.

Resto Shaman ( 2s 3s 5s ) Only 3v3, and only 2 combos (Shadowpriest rogue, Shadowplay)

Ele Shaman ( 3s 5s ) Not at all, possibly 5s.

Enh Shaman ( 3s ) Nopes, better in 2s actually even.

Ret Paladin ( 2s, 3s if full Sunwell geared ) No, not at all vs decent players

Feral Druid ( 2s 3s, if pve geared like a boss ) Absolutely not.

Destruction locks ( 5s, if pve geared like a boss ) You clearly don't remember tbc destruction...

#48 Clamnesia

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:05 PM

View Postcharles34534534, on 15 May 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:

Try play TBC now, and you'll see those classes aren't viable, in TBC 3v3/2v2 very very few things actually works, especially now when people are generally much more skilled.

"Arms Warr ( 2s 3s 5s ) Viable

Affli Warlock ( 2s 3s 5s ) Not in 2v2, shadowpriest warlock only worked against bads, but 3v3, yes viable.

Holy Paladin ( 2s for majority of xpack, 3s 5s ) Not viable whatsoever vs any decent team, especially not in 3v3.

Resto Druid ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Disc Priest ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Shadow Priest ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Frost Mage ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Sub Rogue ( 2s 3s 5s ) Yes, of course.

Mut Rogue ( 2s 3s ) No, not viable at all.

MM Hunter ( 2s 3s 5s ) Only 2v2.

BM Hunter ( 2s 5s ) Only 2v2.

Resto Shaman ( 2s 3s 5s ) Only 3v3, and only 2 combos (Shadowpriest rogue, Shadowplay)

Ele Shaman ( 3s 5s ) Not at all, possibly 5s.

Enh Shaman ( 3s ) Nopes, better in 2s actually even.

Ret Paladin ( 2s, 3s if full Sunwell geared ) No, not at all vs decent players

Feral Druid ( 2s 3s, if pve geared like a boss ) Absolutely not.

Destruction locks ( 5s, if pve geared like a boss ) You clearly don't remember tbc destruction...

If when you say "Try TBC now" youre referring to things like AT, youre an idiot. They have their own balance and changes on AT realm. Its LIKE tbc, but its not the same exact thing as it was during the time. Also, it has a VERY low population. The players that DO populate ARE very good at playing that realm. The classes they play have been perfected over time. Of course youre not going to beat a Rdruid Awarr 2s team that has been playing that style for what 6 years now?

Edit: Also, you speak of "today's skill" --- "todays skill" is something totally different that what Skill was considered back then. For all you know, the players of today wouldnt hit 1800 in BC without all of their instant cast CC and, well..... instant cast spells in general. Not to mention all of their defensives and self heals. Multiple trinkets on some classes, etc. Its a whole nother ballgame bro bro.

Also, on your "edit" to Rsham, you forgot RLS. That comp was invented in BC. Not cata, as so many cata babies seem to think.

Edited by Clamnesia, 15 May 2014 - 06:12 PM.

Why monkeys? Im starting to believe these monkeys have been snake bitten.. A whistling Dennis Rodman and a snake bitten monkey are no different. For these tree dwellers hath stolen the eggs of the momma parakeet. The howler monkey howls at dawn and dusk, the spider monkey yelps "yeeeeee yeeeeee" through the forest. Even the cud chewing antelope ease drop from a far. Tranquilize the monkeys and put them in a zoo, says the man with the red beard and boonie hat. And now I've got shit pie on my face?

Posted Image

#49 Zqae

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:13 PM

So you are essentially bashing people for using their "new" MoP abilities ? Lol.

Edit : Just to make my message more clear, instant CC's with low counterplay have always been in the game and "carried" people in higher elos than they deserved, remember when they gave Mages Deep Freeze ? Remember Windfury & Sword double hit proc (or Mace stun for that matter) Warrior/Shaman teamcomps ? Not to mention all those Druid/Lock or Druid/Hunter that got Glad in TBC by spamming mana drain in 2v2 .

The game was different, but there was always retarded ways to gain rating. It's just that people forgot.

Edited by Zqae, 15 May 2014 - 06:28 PM.


#50 kannetixx

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 06:46 PM

i think the mentality behind "old school was better" is because people never adapted to new game play

its kind of like the counter strike community who was up in arms when CS:Go started to take off

every player who couldnt make it work in CS:GO always claimed 1.6 was 10x better and hey that may very well be the case in some instances but games evolve and you need to evolve with it not just sit back and reminisce about the golden years
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#51 Clamnesia

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:06 PM

View PostZqae, on 15 May 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

So you are essentially bashing people for using their "new" MoP abilities ? Lol.

Not at all, im saying look at hunters for example. There are hunters that have been in glad range or near it since mop but have never even been 2200 in any expansion before. I know 3 hunters FOR SURE that were never above rival before, that all the sudden hit glad in S13-15.
Did they really get THAT much better between the last season of cata and the first couple of season in MOP or is the class just THAT much easier?
Why monkeys? Im starting to believe these monkeys have been snake bitten.. A whistling Dennis Rodman and a snake bitten monkey are no different. For these tree dwellers hath stolen the eggs of the momma parakeet. The howler monkey howls at dawn and dusk, the spider monkey yelps "yeeeeee yeeeeee" through the forest. Even the cud chewing antelope ease drop from a far. Tranquilize the monkeys and put them in a zoo, says the man with the red beard and boonie hat. And now I've got shit pie on my face?

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#52 Zqae

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:19 PM

I'm not saying this kind of thing doesn't happen, I'm saying this kind of thing has always happened.

Another factor is the fact that many people left during Cata. I know a lot of high rating PvPers that quit (in the french community if we can call it this way) during that period.

#53 pharrelle

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:19 PM

View PostClamnesia, on 15 May 2014 - 07:06 PM, said:

Not at all, im saying look at hunters for example. There are hunters that have been in glad range or near it since mop but have never even been 2200 in any expansion before. I know 3 hunters FOR SURE that were never above rival before, that all the sudden hit glad in S13-15.
Did they really get THAT much better between the last season of cata and the first couple of season in MOP or is the class just THAT much easier?
without being specific on hunters or that single player: yes, people improve as the time goes on.
you're like woah this player was rival 4 seasons ago, how could he possibly be near glad range now?
That's just a really bad attitude imo. Its been 2 years since the last cata season now.
Is it that hard to belief that people make any progress in 2 years of playing the same class, without it being the game's fault.
How long does a player have to play one single class till he deserves to be in glad range in your opinion?
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#54 Maitopurkki

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:51 PM

View Postcharles34534534, on 15 May 2014 - 05:48 PM, said:


Mut Rogue ( 2s 3s ) No, not viable at all.

MM Hunter ( 2s 3s 5s ) Only 2v2.

Enh Shaman ( 3s ) Nopes, better in 2s actually even.

Feral Druid ( 2s 3s, if pve geared like a boss ) Absolutely not.


All of those specs were viable in tbc. Sure feral and enha sucked dick, but good players could make them work. Just because you play in some shitty tbc realm where people cba learn their classes and just roll fotm specs, dosent mean that the other specs arent viable. Also this guy is supposed to be best hunter in AT http://www.twitch.tv/weedyxify and hes worse than cherez was 7 years ago.
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View PostÁlex1296683699, on 24 April 2012 - 10:08 AM, said:

sadly pve in this season can carry u easily :(

#55 Clamnesia

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 07:56 PM

View Postpharrelle, on 15 May 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

without being specific on hunters or that single player: yes, people improve as the time goes on.
you're like woah this player was rival 4 seasons ago, how could he possibly be near glad range now?
That's just a really bad attitude imo. Its been 2 years since the last cata season now.
Is it that hard to belief that people make any progress in 2 years of playing the same class, without it being the game's fault.
How long does a player have to play one single class till he deserves to be in glad range in your opinion?

Well, obviously people improve as they play. However, i DO know 3 specific hunters that like i said have never even been close to glad ratings in previous expansion (dating back to BC.) ive even played with some of them because they are friends. Mop hits, things like STAMPEDE happen, things like a ton of instant cc, ridiculous burst, DBL ROS, etc happen and theyre suddenly in glad range? Its the same with warriors. I have another friend (and this isnt shit talk, im just saying) who has been 2200 here and there between Wotlk and now, who leveled a warrior last season, played for a week, (which was long enough to get a mixed set of Tyrannical and grievous) and hit glad for the first time ever playing the class, when previously he had not really been far above 2200. He was playing KFC obviously. In your opinion, is it the class / comp / current game state or is it the increase in player skill that achieved that rating? Granted last season, ratings were deflated and maybe the .5 % of the ladder was larger since there are no longer teams? Idk. Just speculating. Makes for good conversation to pass the work day anyway.
Why monkeys? Im starting to believe these monkeys have been snake bitten.. A whistling Dennis Rodman and a snake bitten monkey are no different. For these tree dwellers hath stolen the eggs of the momma parakeet. The howler monkey howls at dawn and dusk, the spider monkey yelps "yeeeeee yeeeeee" through the forest. Even the cud chewing antelope ease drop from a far. Tranquilize the monkeys and put them in a zoo, says the man with the red beard and boonie hat. And now I've got shit pie on my face?

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#56 Adden

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:06 PM

You are wasting your time discussing what was viable in TBC. For a fair shot at R1 in 3v3 on any of the good BGs on EU, It all came down for your team to have:

- an MS effect (i.e Aimed Shot, Wound Poison, Mortal Strike)

and/or

- Mana Burn, Mana Drain or Viper Sting

TBC was a slow game, It was all about MS effects and Mana.

Edited by Adden, 15 May 2014 - 08:12 PM.


#57 Clamnesia

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:18 PM

View PostAdden, on 15 May 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

You are wasting your time discussing what was viable in TBC. For a fair shot at R1 in 3v3 on any of the good BGs on EU, It all came down for your team to have:

- an MS effect (i.e Aimed Shot, Wound Poison, Mortal Strike)

and/or

- Mana Burn, Mana Drain or Viper Sting

TBC was a slow game, It was all about MS effects and Mana.

Which damn near every comp has some typeof version of one of those. lol. Also, thats wlaso where it came down to skill. How many of these effects did you avoid as a healer? How many of these effects did you prevent as a dps? How many drinks did you get in an arena as a healer? How many drinks did you prevent as a dps? I remember being particularly good at keeping my self at full mana and keeping the other healer at little to no mana as disc myself.

Edited by Clamnesia, 15 May 2014 - 08:22 PM.

Why monkeys? Im starting to believe these monkeys have been snake bitten.. A whistling Dennis Rodman and a snake bitten monkey are no different. For these tree dwellers hath stolen the eggs of the momma parakeet. The howler monkey howls at dawn and dusk, the spider monkey yelps "yeeeeee yeeeeee" through the forest. Even the cud chewing antelope ease drop from a far. Tranquilize the monkeys and put them in a zoo, says the man with the red beard and boonie hat. And now I've got shit pie on my face?

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#58 Darksoldierr

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 08:49 PM

Enha shaman was the best tank in S3/S4 in 5s. Was one of the few classes that could CD during stun

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#59 ROKMODE

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 09:11 PM

Before you read this, acknowledge that I still enjoy TBC in many ways, and it succeeds in numerous departments, but I just disagree on the sentiment of its balance. I also don't think balance is a huge deal normally, so it's not like I think TBC is terrible because I'm not a fan of its balancing. TBC is terrible at things that are more significant than its balance, like its rng.


TBC having good balance is complete BS. There was an artificial sense of good balance on retail because everybody was so bad. People were getting rank 1 easily back then while backpedaling. People didn't even use focus frames and fakecasting/swding cc was considering the greatest thing man could do. AT BC is pretty much only modified when it comes to gear, otherwise it has all the stupid stuff retail bc had. ie needing 9000 spell pen to kill lock pets or all the ridiculous amounts of rng (far more than any expansion)

TBC resto druid is the equivalent of cata resto shaman. Pretty much every hybrid is complete shit in BC outside of shadowpriest in very few comps. Ele is absolutely awful so please don't act like it's viable.
List of tools ele gained from bc--->wrath
-Lava burst (damage outside of one school)
-Hex (some kind of cc, a mediocre one but still good)
-Viable ways to conserve mana
-Root totem
-Ghost wolf(u cant get the instant talent in tbc unless u give up NS)
-Stoneclaw absorb
-thunderstorm
-wind shear (tbc ele interrupt shares a cd with shock spells which is just about the most moronic design ever)
-Astral shift(tbc ele has absolutely no survival cds and no good reduction mechanics)
-not shitty offheals
-An interrupt off gcd(this was a universal change tho so w/e)

I advise you to go back and play TBC. There are very few specs that are good now that people have access to playing pure fotm. On retail, everyone was trying to have fun and sucked, and you had to spend 90 years to level a new character. When everyone has the cheapest stuff at their disposal, shit like tbc ele shaman just gets relentlessly stomped all over. TBC was a test expansion, but it is still relatively fun and skillful. Many specs/classes feel incomplete though, and wotlk helped solve this issue largely (especially hybrids). If you can go to AT TBC and find drastic changes, then I will reconsider my opinion, but AT tends to not change anything except overall comp nerfs and gear setups--and the occasional gamechanging bugs. In fact, AT tbc is probably doing its balance a favor by limiting the trinkets you can use so there's no glaives/sunwell/skull of guldan/etc

even balance aside, BC just has some huge design things that just make no sense at all
wotlk brought huge quality of life changes (let's not forget bc didn't even have focus or arena frames) that most of you probably can't remember because it's been so long

the fucking orc racial reduces your OWN healing taken by 50% for christ's sake

the basic timeline for Wow arena is--
TBC (many classes don't have enough tools)----> Wotlk (playing field leveled and everyone has sufficient tools)------> Cata (some classes start getting too many tools and doing things they shouldn't be doing ie. rogues having self heals)---->MOP (well yeah)

View PostMaitopurkki, on 15 May 2014 - 07:51 PM, said:

All of those specs were viable in tbc. Sure feral and enha sucked dick, but good players could make them work. Just because you play in some shitty tbc realm where people cba learn their classes and just roll fotm specs, dosent mean that the other specs arent viable. Also this guy is supposed to be best hunter in AT http://www.twitch.tv/weedyxify and hes worse than cherez was 7 years ago.
But see there's a difference between a player making something work and something actually being good. They aren't mutually exclusive, but one can happen without the other.The discussion at hand is actual balance. Season 9 ele was the worst spec in all of arena quite possibly but novoz was still top 5 at multiple times if I remember correctly. That doesn't mean that ele was well balanced nor is it a way to excuse the massive imbalances that existed in s9. There are specs that are good but just really hard like s8 rogue, which end up producing poor statistics, and then there are terrible specs that are just terrible and only produce results if a player gets lucky with matchup queues/ is better than his opponents. Viability is difficult to define, but viability comes into question when nearly every single mid---top tier spec shits on the given spec. I mean, you CAN still possibly win, but is that really viability?

Edited by ROKMODE, 15 May 2014 - 09:36 PM.

Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread

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Posted 15 May 2014 - 10:03 PM

Expect bias in posts because
Wotlk is the best thing since sliced bread


gimme some rep back nerd





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Gladiator, 2200, TBC, MoP, OG, mage, priest, rogue, shaman, hunter

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