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RMP vs KFC

RMP KFc Tactics Strategy

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#1 Nesha

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:48 AM

Hello AJ!
Currently playing RMP between 2350-2400 rating with a new team. We seem to be handling most setups very well, except for the *sometimes* more than occasional LSD.

KFC is not particularly hard to us untill we face the 2350+ rated KFC's, which seem to wear us down eventually. I would love to hear your opinion on RMP vs KFC, goals and defensive/offensive transitions. Specifically, KFC becomes a problem when: Their warrior does absurd amounts of DMG OR/AND Their Rsham positions himself very nicely behind a pillar making it harder for us to keep him CC'ed.

Usually this is how it goes against KFC:
--- Sap :shaman: into Blind into deep/CS with fear on hunter+pet. Open :warrior: with Dance+Tricks+2x Fingers+Alter time. Our main goal is to force hunter sac And/Or warrior shield wall/trinket.

--- Swap :hunter: hard with Orb+blades (Shaman should still be in the cc chain mentioned above). This will force either a trinket from shaman or trinket+deterrence from hunter.

--- This is where the game becomes messy. We lose control of the warrior, we lose control of the shaman because of DR's and we're pretty much just waiting for our cooldowns to come back up. This is where KFC starts their real pressure and usually where we fall behind.

Often we can win the game from here with a PoM sheep into deep/cs on the shaman, which leaves us with two choices: 1) If we still have smoke bomb and warrior has no trinket he is a good kill target. 2) Stay on hunter while peeling the warrior. Most often we have found hunter to be the easiest target to kill outside of pet sac.


As mentioned earlier, I would love to hear your opinion on how an RMP vs KFC match-up should progress. What do you think we could do differently? Any input is greatly appreciated!

Edited by Nesha, 30 April 2014 - 08:53 AM.

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#2 cubas

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:39 AM

Wondering the same, also would like to hear how to deal with KFC as RMD.

Any tips appreciated.
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#3 Nesha

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 11:44 AM

Just to elaborate a bit further.. I think most of our problem lies in our incapability to control the warrior outside of novas, ice ward and the occasional polymorph.
I feel like many of these problems could be solved if our rogue peeled more with cheap shots and maybe even a chastise on warrior, in order to secure a polymorph.

If we played with a druid it would be much easier to set up a sotf clone on warrior after faking spell reflect I suppose.
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#4 Shaderz

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 07:51 PM

I'm also curious has to pointers. Keeping an eye on this post.
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#5 Flavours

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:41 PM

Hi, The warrior in a KFC here,

RMP/D's always open the same way. Sap the shaman, Cheap me, deep hunter. Now, if you pop dance and orb in the opener, you're going to force the shamans trinket. (If you don't do enough damage, you might not, or instead you may force trinket deter from hunter)

If Shaman trinkets, he can die.
If hunter trinkets, he can die.

Most likely i will fear, and get both Mage and Rogues trinkets. as they stay offensive, if the warrior trinkets at any point, blades + bomb and he's dead. Once you get your trinkets, run.pull back to a pillar, and punish anyone who over extends, the Warrior and the Hunter will be railing your mage.

Now blind, sheep, ring, stun shaman, and blade's bomb whatever doesn't have a trinket.

For an optional extra, cc the hunters pet in the opener, most wont notice, and they won't sac themselves consequently.

With a priest, they can MC the warrior in the opener, and anything on shaman to stop the dispel means 7 seconds of CC. Force his trinket? Kill him in a swap.

Edited by Aces, 30 April 2014 - 08:42 PM.

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#6 Regent

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Posted 30 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

Get hunter trinket in opener without bombing, kill 30 seconds later.
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#7 Nesha

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:35 PM

Get hunter trinket in opener without bombing, kill 30 seconds later.


I would love to hear your elaborated explanation on this, since any decent hunter will start in glyphed Camo agianst RMP/D. Forcing trinket in a full sac on a hunter would seem a hard task; a deterrence would be more than possible to force though.
I appreciate your input, but I also appreciate answers with some thought put into them and not just "do this to A, do this to B and collect points".
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#8 Nesha

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 04:48 PM

Hi, The warrior in a KFC here,

RMP/D's always open the same way. Sap the shaman, Cheap me, deep hunter. Now, if you pop dance and orb in the opener, you're going to force the shamans trinket. (If you don't do enough damage, you might not, or instead you may force trinket deter from hunter)

If Shaman trinkets, he can die.
If hunter trinkets, he can die.

Most likely i will fear, and get both Mage and Rogues trinkets. as they stay offensive, if the warrior trinkets at any point, blades + bomb and he's dead. Once you get your trinkets, run.pull back to a pillar, and punish anyone who over extends, the Warrior and the Hunter will be railing your mage.

Now blind, sheep, ring, stun shaman, and blade's bomb whatever doesn't have a trinket.

For an optional extra, cc the hunters pet in the opener, most wont notice, and they won't sac themselves consequently.

With a priest, they can MC the warrior in the opener, and anything on shaman to stop the dispel means 7 seconds of CC. Force his trinket? Kill him in a swap.


Good to see things from a different perspective. I definitely agree with killing the warrior in a bomb+blades+orb if he doesn't have trinket. Usually against KFC (when we play alliance and not our undead RMP team) we have fearward on rogue which means that he won't need to trinket unless hunter has the globals to dispel it. As a mage I always keep trinket untill I really need it to take a trap or simply get to a better position - I would never trinket the initial warrior fear, let alone stand on top of our rogue.

You mention that a swap to shaman without trinket would also prove efficient and it is a strategy we have been toying a lot with, but never have been able to execute consistently. It feels like a shaman playing KFC would ultimately be max-ranging the mage the entire game because of two reason: 1) Avoid CC by utilizing grounding much more efficiently on PoM/Deep/CS and 2) Avoid swaps.

My point with a max-ranging shaman is that while it is still very possible to swap to him with step/blink, it would pull hpriest/rdruid healer of RMP/D out of position. The hunter in KFC would also be left in between Rogue/Mage and Priest which could potentially make the situation much harder. This could perhaps be possible with a clever spectral guise re-positioning.
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#9 shunke

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 07:56 PM

Sap warrior -> zerker rage = fear after zerker -> Blind warrior. = Warrior doesnt peel your opener.

Open ALL-in on shaman. (Orb Minidance+blades -> Deep CS -> cheap cheap) If he trinkets turtle and switch to hunter with next deep and pom poly on shaman. Without Druid you need to peel the warrior of with stunning and if they come aggressive to your pillar just kill them.

Usually someone needs to trinket RMP/D opener and they are usually viable target after that.

Dont try to Mind Control anything because shaman will use Purge not Cleanse Spirit to take it off.

Good KFC team will spam arena1 charge + Silencing Shot macro (if your mage is arena1 target). So beware of that also if warrior is not in anykind of CC he will stormbolt disarm rogue and go hard on mage to get counterpressure.

Im no expert but things that makes RMD really hard for me is when they especially CC me. (Blind in opener into -> 3x Clone) while your shaman is dying..
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#10 Regent

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Posted 01 May 2014 - 08:02 PM

I would love to hear your elaborated explanation on this, since any decent hunter will start in glyphed Camo agianst RMP/D. Forcing trinket in a full sac on a hunter would seem a hard task; a deterrence would be more than possible to force though.
I appreciate your input, but I also appreciate answers with some thought put into them and not just "do this to A, do this to B and collect points".


Sap healer, open war, the hunter has to come out, orb him, deep him, blind healer/instapoly, root war, force trinket. Wait until FO is up, 100-0 hunter in stun bomb.
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#11 Nesha

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 06:22 PM

Sap healer, open war, the hunter has to come out, orb him, deep him, blind healer/instapoly, root war, force trinket. Wait until FO is up, 100-0 hunter in stun bomb.


Thank you for elaborating. Do you feel like hunter will need to trinket if he does not sac warrior in the opener? Usually we play prey against KFC, but paralytic might be worth it just to force the trinket from hunter after the deep freeze has ended.
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#12 Loraine

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:06 PM

Sap warrior -> zerker rage = fear after zerker -> Blind warrior. = Warrior doesnt peel your opener.

Open ALL-in on shaman. (Orb Minidance+blades -> Deep CS -> cheap cheap) If he trinkets turtle and switch to hunter with next deep and pom poly on shaman. Without Druid you need to peel the warrior of with stunning and if they come aggressive to your pillar just kill them.



That's just hoping the warrior is a retard as orb funnily enough BREAKS sap.
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#13 Nesha

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:49 PM

That's just hoping the warrior is a retard as orb funnily enough BREAKS sap.


Agreed. Orb in the opener vs a KFC is usually not the best call and often you can put out the same dmg by alter-timing your procs, trinkets, and tricks. Zerker rage also makes him immune to the next fear for 6 seconds which is PLENTY of time to screw up your opener on the shaman.

The way we have been doing shaman kills usually goes like this:
Sap :shaman: --> Fear :hunter:+Pet (maybe out of pet nova if you know where he is) --> Deep+PoM ring :warrior: .
This allows you to control the flow of the game much more effeciently in the start of the game. Having the warrior in CC is pretty vital for shaman kills - deeping+PoM ringing the warrior allows you to throw that orb out (even if he is next to the shaman).

Edited by Nesha, 02 May 2014 - 09:50 PM.

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#14 shunke

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 09:53 PM

if KFC is stackking so that sap is gonna break you should nova blanket pomring orb alter and kill them with icelance glyph xD
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#15 mirox

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 10:36 PM

First off, a good KFC shouldn't and will not lose to RMP/RMD ever, it can happen 1 time out of 10 times where rogue/mage randomly one shot someone, but even then its a mistake of KFC that they fucked up with ROS or did nothing about it/over reacted with cds before that.

That being said, what I do when I play rmp vs kfc is to try and find hunter with shadow walk/feather or sprint, my mage is walking around in invisibility and trying to find hunter.
If you find him, you sap shaman and have your mage nova him out and you open him.(if not, you are fucked and basically fall behind from the start)
So, lets say you find him, you get a sap on shaman, mage novas hunter out and you step cheapshot him,blades, alter time and some procs;warrior is chastised into MC; blind shaman out of sap and force his trinket. At this point you have probably forced hunter's trinket and ROS if not even deterrence #1. Good.
After that it is your time to take the D because warrior and hunter will be free and you can rest assured that they will give it to your mage. So, you have your rogue try to prevent your healer from getting trapped by eating the trap and redirect kidneyshoting warrior, you peel until stun DRs are over on hunter and you can repeat all of this. Next time you can go for hunter, you can redirect kidneyshot warrior into MC/chastise or just chastise into MC as you stun hunter and your mage deepfreezes shaman into polymorph(casted or pom). Orb + dance on hunter and you are guaranteed to force CDS from shaman/trinkets from DPS etc.
After that you basically just repeat until hunter is dead or you lose. The better you do it , the more chance you have of actually winning.

P.S. Kill healing stream whenever you can, force shaman to cast, try to kick him with step or CS during the time when you are in between DRs on hunter.

Of course, this sounds good on paper, in practice its a bit more messy, but your goal is to do it as better as you can if you want to win. gl ;)
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#16 Nesha

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 11:02 PM

Of course, this sounds good on paper, in practice its a bit more messy, but your goal is to do it as better as you can if you want to win. gl ;)


Thanks a lot for your input Mirøx. This is very different from what we have currently been trying; i'm sure we'll try out MC against KFCs to see if we can make it work. I would appreciate if you could take time to answer a few questions:

1) Do you start out with mass stealth when looking for hunter or do you simple have priest turtle behind pillar with spectral guise while mage/rogue has their invis/stealth running?

2) What happens when we don't find the hunter? Do we sap shaman and open normally on warrior with CS and swap straight to hunter when he pops?

As you stated in the end of your post most strategies that can be devised by an RMP may look flawless in theory; but what happens when the warrior berserker rages the chastise+MC and stormbolts the rogue? Our struggle versus KFC is in fact often boiled down to them having the right tools to counter our elaborate cc schemes!

Edited by Nesha, 02 May 2014 - 11:03 PM.

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#17 mirox

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Posted 02 May 2014 - 11:58 PM

Thanks a lot for your input Mirøx. This is very different from what we have currently been trying; i'm sure we'll try out MC against KFCs to see if we can make it work. I would appreciate if you could take time to answer a few questions:

1) Do you start out with mass stealth when looking for hunter or do you simple have priest turtle behind pillar with spectral guise while mage/rogue has their invis/stealth running?

2) What happens when we don't find the hunter? Do we sap shaman and open normally on warrior with CS and swap straight to hunter when he pops?

As you stated in the end of your post most strategies that can be devised by an RMP may look flawless in theory; but what happens when the warrior berserker rages the chastise+MC and stormbolts the rogue? Our struggle versus KFC is in fact often boiled down to them having the right tools to counter our elaborate cc schemes!

No problem, sure ;)
1) We start out with mass stealth always, after that we get feathers, mage goes invis, and just explore possible spots where hunter could be. (ofc, mage goes to explore one direction and rogue takes some other spot)

2)If you dont find the hunter, you are forced to start on warrior, we usually dont use any cds and just wait for hunter to pop up and instantly swap him.

I am pretty sure that warrior cannot berserker rage castise or mind control, so he would have to trinket in order to peel... Our priest even has an extra feather on the ground sometimes which he picks up with MC'd warrior and takes him to africa. Also, if you sap into blind and your priest can run in for the 4 seconds fear, its great thing to do because it will most likely force tremor.(but this is situational, your priest will never get enough fears on KFC's shaman to make one of them stick when it actually matters, but still something that might help you if you get lucky possitioning or something :P)
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#18 Nesha

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:23 AM

I am pretty sure that warrior cannot berserker rage castise or mind control


I stand corrected. Just read up on the spell and it does indeed not remove mind control (don't know how I got that into my head?).
Well [Mind Control] certainly could have a lot of utility versus KFC if you can keep the shaman CC'ed. We will try out your "go straight on hunter tactic" and hopefully it will help us get past that 2400 barrier which we seem to have hit.

Once again, thanks a lot for your input. I am sure that I'm not the only one who appreciates it! I am happy to keep the discussion going and even answer a few RMP questions from a ~2350 rated point of view myself.
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#19 cubas

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 11:51 AM

Is this real life? A helpful discussion on AJ :o

Thanks for the tips mirox/nesha.
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#20 Icyfresh420

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Posted 05 May 2014 - 12:37 PM

I stand corrected. Just read up on the spell and it does indeed not remove mind control (don't know how I got that into my head?).
Well [Mind Control] certainly could have a lot of utility versus KFC if you can keep the shaman CC'ed. We will try out your "go straight on hunter tactic" and hopefully it will help us get past that 2400 barrier which we seem to have hit.

Once again, thanks a lot for your input. I am sure that I'm not the only one who appreciates it! I am happy to keep the discussion going and even answer a few RMP questions from a ~2350 rated point of view myself.

You most likely got that into your head because until MoP dominate mind(mind control) was always considered a fear, shared the same dr category, and was broken by berserker rage
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