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Why I don't do damage? (unholy)


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#1 Lemuria

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 05:28 PM

Hello.

So, I've read all kind of guides for unholy, about damage, cooldowns, rune management, etc. I can do fine in duels, but I can't do shit against healers, specially Holy Paladin, in arena or bg.

I do everything, I setup all death runes, gather Transformation stacks, then wait for the right moment to pop everything and cc them with my partner (resto druid) to land a kill. Thing is: while I can do some damage when that happens, I often get peel, poly, fear, kidney, hex, hammer, every kind of cc to hell. No AMS, trinket or dispel can give me a proper uptime on the target to actually finish the job. I'll won't even discuss about untargetable LOL demonic gateway...

Well, outside of all that, I don't do damage, I don't put the so called pressure that unholy is famous of, Yeah, I bloodboil and pestilence, but that isn't enough to put pressure, while diseases ticks for 4k dmg and crit for 7-8. How can I actually put pressure when I'm not bursting? How can I actually have a decent uptime on whatever class without using trinket or some long cd? I don't know...I log on my enhance and I melt people, I pop Ascendence and they crap their pants like a red head child. But with DK's, I don't know. Of course I'm still a noob, my highest rank on 2x2 is 2k and that was in Cata. I've stopped playing and came back now.

Will that get better once I acquire prideful gear? Please, help. I love DKs and I don't want to reroll to my shaman :)

If I didn't provide enough information, please tell me and I'll try to clarify. Sorry because english is not my first language. Basically: how do I do damage when I'm not bursting, and how to have a nice uptime?

Thanks in advance. :)

#2 Slaggy

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Posted 03 April 2014 - 08:06 PM

Death Knight damage is absolute shit IF you cant properly back it up with uptime and necrotic strike. When your not looking for a kill you should be focusing on keeping your diseases up, controlling your pet and your kill target, and "building" your next "dump".

i.e. stack blood taps, death runes, pool some rp and transform your pet (timmy henceforth) than blow your load into your kill target, preferably while being able to double stun it (assumign you mean 2's casue you said partner is a druid and didnt mention a 3d) I'd probably just wait for proc trinket, use on use trinket, reapply diseases, transform timmy, asphyixate (its phsyical and cant be dispelled) dump 4 necros, put up soul reaper, pet stun (DR's but still 2 sec) get 2 more necros from your blood tap stacks, weave in death coils so you dont overfill your RP bar. (and they crit for 60k for me @ 538 ilvl)

disclaimer: this is not an sure fire wayt o land kills, arena does not go 100% fluid in your favor everytime, shit happens, things get fucked up. this is merely the my opinion on the "optimal" setup for a kill for a DK.

as with anything you want to develop more skill in, practice makes perfect, as long as you dont practice the wrong shit. Cause than yuor just being dumb <3

#3 Sharkuuu

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 10:06 AM

for 2s i like building up deaths with pressure (cc on heal if there is any, dump down runes, stun heal out of cc and use your rune cd, pop cds and stack da necros), so the target is at ~50% befor i start bursting it

in 3s your the necro bot for your bursty partner :D

#4 Lemuria

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Posted 04 April 2014 - 12:46 PM

View PostSlaggy, on 03 April 2014 - 08:06 PM, said:

Death Knight damage is absolute shit IF you cant properly back it up with uptime and necrotic strike. When your not looking for a kill you should be focusing on keeping your diseases up, controlling your pet and your kill target, and "building" your next "dump".

i.e. stack blood taps, death runes, pool some rp and transform your pet (timmy henceforth) than blow your load into your kill target, preferably while being able to double stun it (assumign you mean 2's casue you said partner is a druid and didnt mention a 3d) I'd probably just wait for proc trinket, use on use trinket, reapply diseases, transform timmy, asphyixate (its phsyical and cant be dispelled) dump 4 necros, put up soul reaper, pet stun (DR's but still 2 sec) get 2 more necros from your blood tap stacks, weave in death coils so you dont overfill your RP bar. (and they crit for 60k for me @ 538 ilvl)

disclaimer: this is not an sure fire wayt o land kills, arena does not go 100% fluid in your favor everytime, shit happens, things get fucked up. this is merely the my opinion on the "optimal" setup for a kill for a DK.

as with anything you want to develop more skill in, practice makes perfect, as long as you dont practice the wrong shit. Cause than yuor just being dumb <3

Thanks a lot for your insight, Reap. I know random BG's are not the correct parameter for comparison, but I did some yesterday and, even on my non optimal gear, I noticed a increase on my damage. Maybe not on my damage per se, but on my efectiveness. I was actually able to down and put more pressure on healers and other annoying classes for DKs like Ret Pallies. Felt really good about it. I need a lot of practice tho, and more important, change my playstyle. Gotta be more patient and pool my runes and runic power to dump them for a burst. I think I understand you, it's all about patiance and setup, burst. Build everything again, and burst, and so on. Before that I just used abilities on cd expecting to do continuous damage, that was easily healed for my frustration. I'm kind of getting the concept now, gotta get used to it. You really helped me, thanks a lot :)

#5 Ownu

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 06:45 AM

For starters, what comp are you playing? Killing healers isn't something thats easy for DK, because of the peeling problems. Well, unless you're playing TSG or Shadowcleave where there is consistent damge going out just about everywhere. If you're playing a more cc coordinated comp, then you should stick to killing DPS. Asphyx into whatever your partner has is generally enough CC to kill a DPS, and typically DPS dont peel for themselves as well as they peel for a healer.

#6 Icekingx

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:04 AM

Dk saying he doesn't do damage? I mean maybe you don't THE PETS sure do.

Rawrbertlol, on 14 June 2013 - 08:41 AM, said:

Best signatures on entire website.
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#7 Neosaurfang

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 09:10 AM

Are dks good atm?????
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#8 Slaggy

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 10:13 AM

Brutally underpowered @ asparagus

#9 Lemuria

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 07:47 PM

View PostOwnu, on 08 April 2014 - 06:45 AM, said:

For starters, what comp are you playing? Killing healers isn't something thats easy for DK, because of the peeling problems. Well, unless you're playing TSG or Shadowcleave where there is consistent damge going out just about everywhere. If you're playing a more cc coordinated comp, then you should stick to killing DPS. Asphyx into whatever your partner has is generally enough CC to kill a DPS, and typically DPS dont peel for themselves as well as they peel for a healer.

I'm playing with a resto druid in 2s. I know that 2s is broken and should be consider, but is that is really frustrating to kill a healer by myself while having to deal with peels. Is it actually possible? I think I do a little ok with priests, but I can't get a MW Monk or Holy Pala below 80% unless they are badly undergeared.

#10 Ownu

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 08:23 PM

oh its 2s, you cant kill anyone decent until dampening. Dks too relent on mortal strike, necro strike isnt what it used to be.

#11 Lemuria

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 01:00 PM

View PostOwnu, on 08 April 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

oh its 2s, you cant kill anyone decent until dampening. Dks too relent on mortal strike, necro strike isnt what it used to be.

Well, that's somewhat comforting. At least I'm not the only one suffering on that issue. Please, tell me 3's with a Warlock friend will be better :)

#12 Deeklol

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 01:09 PM

You do tons of damage just smashing whatever buttons light up

I literally went thru 5 keyboards back when i played a dk in s5 and s6
Hey, add me on LoL :)

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#13 Schvetolga

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 04:18 PM

View PostDeeklol, on 09 April 2014 - 01:09 PM, said:

You do tons of damage just smashing whatever buttons light up

I literally went thru 5 keyboards back when i played a dk in s5 and s6

Although you literally did not.
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#14 Deeklol

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 04:27 PM

View PostUrbandurban, on 09 April 2014 - 04:18 PM, said:



Although you literally did not.

Nice try hunter
Hey, add me on LoL :)

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#15 Rekkiem

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 04:42 PM

View PostDeeklol, on 09 April 2014 - 04:27 PM, said:

Nice try hunter

He's commenting on your use of English rather than your skill.
pushing it to the limit since 1985
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#16 NsMs

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 04:54 PM

Its because 2s are imba as fuck right now. Literally ever game with decent healers will go to dampening.
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#17 Lemuria

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 08:11 PM

View PostNsMs, on 09 April 2014 - 04:54 PM, said:

Its because 2s are imba as fuck right now. Literally ever game with decent healers will go to dampening.

Maybe me and my partner will have tor work our patience issues then. I don't have problems killing priests and hard switch on druids, tho, but Pallies and Monks are instants /leave, and to a lesser extent, Shamans. I can kill retarded Shamans, but I can't even touch a mentally handicap eight fingers with parkinsons pallies or monks. It's so frustrating...fuck that monk mobility, fuck ring of peace (a melee class that is affected by either disarms and silences is such a mongoloid design) fuck freedom, fuck bubble, fuck instants huge heals through 6 necrotics, fuck chains of ice not giving death runes, fuck dk's uptime, fuck my life.

#18 Forumz

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Posted 09 April 2014 - 10:04 PM

Every time I see OP post I can't help but think that his name is a reference to this old GBA Game.

Edited by Forumz, 09 April 2014 - 10:04 PM.

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#19 Lemuria

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:20 PM

View PostForumz, on 09 April 2014 - 10:04 PM, said:

Every time I see OP post I can't help but think that his name is a reference to this old GBA Game.

It's a reference from the band Therion, in which they refer Lemuria as a lost continent, like Atlantis. Anyway, it's a fucking great band with a fucking amazing Album.

Back to no damage and sucking mobility, how do you close the gap and REMAIN at the target without wasting a death rune on chains of ice when going for a kill? Do I really really have to rely on my partner's roots, stun, slows? Should I blind wast grip, or asphyxiate or pet stun? I tried to chase already just to feel like a stupid kid running around pillars...

I chain paladins, they freedom, I feel idiot.

#20 Neosaurfang

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Posted 14 April 2014 - 06:27 PM

View PostLemuria, on 14 April 2014 - 06:20 PM, said:

It's a reference from the band Therion, in which they refer Lemuria as a lost continent, like Atlantis. Anyway, it's a fucking great band with a fucking amazing Album.

Back to no damage and sucking mobility, how do you close the gap and REMAIN at the target without wasting a death rune on chains of ice when going for a kill? Do I really really have to rely on my partner's roots, stun, slows? Should I blind wast grip, or asphyxiate or pet stun? I tried to chase already just to feel like a stupid kid running around pillars...

I chain paladins, they freedom, I feel idiot.

go asphyixaite unless youre playing double dps with a warrior with stormbolt/Shockwave or w/e
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